The Light of Christ

Tobin · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:15 pm

SteelHead wrote:

Tobin, We can quibble about definitions but, how does seeing god and subsequently testifying about it not make you a defacto apostle?

If you mean an apostle "a passionate adherent; a strong supporter" of God, sign me up. If you want me to go around speaking like an apostle and saying "God wants me to tell you such and such", sorry - I'm not in that league. I certainly am not in a positon to tell you what to believe about God, just that you should seek God and speak with the source. I know that is possible since it happened to me.

Now, as far as other things, like the Mormon church. I think it is a man-made organization run by men. If God has a hand in things, men need to seek God for that to happen. Otherwise, things default to stupidity and incorrect actions. And I think we have plenty of evidence of that with polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, the current relationship with gays, and the denial of women their role in the priesthood. All of these things (and others) are brought on by the biases of men in charge doing and saying things they should not.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:50 pm

gdemetz wrote:

Nightlion, the scriptures do teach that these are "independent" in their respective spheres, and, of course, the BofM teaches that if God were not just then he would cease to be God. I recommend highly the article concerning the atonement witten by Dr. Skowsen which goes into great detain concerning this topic.

I am offended but do you mean Cleon Skousen? gdemetz (a possibly blasphemous user name) if you know something about it just say so. I am not interested in searching out what I already know.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:04 pm

Tobin wrote:

Incorrect. I've seen God. That does not make me an apostle. It does make me a theist and I can state that in fact I know there is a God. My opinions on other matters do not necessarily carry the same degree of knowledge.

first gdemetz puts himself up an interesting foil and now this? I might begin to get interested and much exercised. I have never seen God face to face. He has spoken to me and I have heard his own words. And since I was begotten of fire and of the Holy Ghost when eighteen God has made manifest to me his knowledge from time to time as I have been taught of God forty years. I am an apostle by right of being duly sent of God by the commanding word of his power, and after faithfully fulfilling my mission was given the apostolic witness by the power of the Holy Ghost which does put upon you the burden of the name of Christ to all the world.

The Lord has declared that any of us who have seen the worlds move in their majesty and power have in fact seen God. But what are you talking about? If you live in Utah please come over and sit down and let's talk.

D&C 88:45-48
45 The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.
46 Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?
47 Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.
48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.

According to this everyone on earth today, who can see, has seen God. They simply do not realize it.

Tobin · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:10 pm

Nightlion wrote:

I have never seen God face to face.

I would recommend it. I would also suggest that you prepare for such an encounter. I was NOT prepared and it was rather shocking and not something I wish to repeat in the near future.

SteelHead · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:10 pm

Nightlion,
Just a quick non thread related FYI.... the apocalrock website seems to be down.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:22 pm

SteelHead wrote:

Nighlion practices a type phrenology of mountains looking for god's will in the bumps and crags of the apocalrock. He (now correct me if I am wrong) affirms that the LDS church is in apostasy and many of its teaching are in error. Is his witness less valid/reliable than yours?

lol phrenologist! cute that.
I read The Apocalrock because it is there. A story board of God prepared from the foundation of the earth. Many Ancient revelations were scripted from off its references. I get the knowledge of God from God and not from off the bumps and crags of the rock. And, yes, the LDS Church is fallen into abject apostasy from whence it shall not ever recover. Individuals may repent and come unto Christ with full purpose of heart. The Church will never be owned by God again as it knowingly cast out the righteous who were sent unto it. The time is lost and it is everlastingly too late. The day of the Gentile is over.

It is not an all or nothing clean break. As Adam will have to sit and look into the books and see who truly apostatized and who can have an inheritance with the saints as per D&C 85.
But the time to gather the dispersed of the House of Israel is fully come in. Such is the call and preparation of The Apocalrock. The world will begin to see it at once.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:29 pm

Tobin wrote:

Nightlion wrote:

I have never seen God face to face.

I would recommend it. I would also suggest that you prepare for such an encounter. I was NOT prepared and it was rather shocking and not something I wish to repeat in the near future.

lol interesting! You think you may be able to coach me a bit? I am longing for some serious company and any celestial being would be of great comfort.

I was not prepared for the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. How can you be lest some wise man gives you some of his wisdom. There was no such a pastor for me.

Tobin · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:36 pm

Nightlion wrote:

lol interesting! You think you may be able to coach me a bit? I am longing for some serious company and any celestial being would be of great comfort.

I was not prepared for the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. How can you be lest some wise man gives you some of his wisdom. There was no such a pastor for me.

Here is what I'm doing. Aspire to be your best. Your best thoughts and desires come from God. I have a long way to go towards being my best, but I'll let you know where I get there.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:38 pm

SteelHead wrote:

Nightlion,
Just a quick non thread related FYI.... the apocalrock website seems to be down.

Thanks. Yeah, that's worse than half down for the last few months. The Commitee on Strengthening the Members must have had at it lately. My rich and deep site went down last fall and the webhost told me his server fried. Nothing was saved.

I will put up two PDFs hosted from England where the addendum to my book of sightings is:

Addendum to The Vision Of All: The Apocalrock
apocalrock1

Second part of the same addendum
apocalrock2
I do not have the main book of the first thirty-six sighting online anymore.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:41 pm

Tobin wrote:

Nightlion wrote:

lol interesting! You think you may be able to coach me a bit? I am longing for some serious company and any celestial being would be of great comfort.

I was not prepared for the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. How can you be lest some wise man gives you some of his wisdom. There was no such a pastor for me.

Here is what I'm doing. Aspire to be your best. Your best thoughts and desires come from God. I have a long way to go towards being my best, but I'll let you know where I get there.

Please PM me any particulars of you actual experience if you would like. Thanks.

ludwigm · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:26 am

gdemetz wrote:

I am a convert to the church, and before I joined, I examined many religions.

Mormonism wins...

Quote:

Biographical Sketch:
John Taylor was born November 1, 1808, in Milnthorpe, Westmorland, England. An 1832 immigrant to Toronto, Canada, he was a cooper and part-time Methodist minister. He and his wife, Leonora, joined the Church in 1836. Two years later, he became an Apostle and enjoyed close association with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

gdemetz · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:59 am **Posts:** 1681

I did say so Nightlion in "The Light of Christ.".

moksha · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:35 am

Nightlion wrote:

Such is the call and preparation of The Apocalrock. The world will begin to see it at once.

Could this vision of the Apocalrock be enhance with the Julia or Mandelbrot set?

Nightlion · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:04 pm

moksha wrote:

Nightlion wrote:

Such is the call and preparation of The Apocalrock. The world will begin to see it at once.

Could this vision of the Apocalrock be enhance with the Julia or Mandelbrot set?

mokska, certain as I am that this reply is trite, possibly clever if not altogether amusing, and fully insincere yet it fails me to know what. Unless perhaps those are wines. Then I would say sitting on the hillside of Sugar House Park observing The Apocalrock while winebibbing would be a fine afternoon for a winebibber.
Alas I think you would have to brown bag your bottle as drinking in the park if forbidden. I think so.

SteelHead · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:15 pm

Julia and Mandelbrot sets are self similar fractal sequences quite often used to create virtual 3d mountains. See fractals at wiki.

Nightlion · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:53 pm

SteelHead wrote:

Julia and Mandelbrot sets are self similar fractal sequences quite often used to create virtual 3d mountains. See fractals at wiki.

my bad moksha must be you are so high above me.

zeezrom · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:00 pm

Tobin wrote:

...it was rather shocking and not something I wish to repeat in the near future.

Sounds like 'ol Heavenly Father. Damn, he must be so lonely up there on his throne.

SteelHead · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:19 pm

Gd,
Are you going to address my questions?

gdemetz · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:59 am **Posts:** 1681

Yes, I just looked back and found your question. I meant a revealed religion form God. When I studied many other Christian religions, I found that in almost all cases, the founder of that particular religion did not even claim to be a prophet.

zeezrom · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:10 pm

gdemetz wrote:

When I studied many other Christian religions, I found that in almost all cases, the founder of that particular religion did not even claim to be a prophet.

Isn't the purpose of a prophet (per mainstream Christianity) to proclaim the coming of Jesus prior to his birth on the earth?

I could be wrong.

But I would think this is a good reason not to feel the need for a prophet anymore.

SteelHead · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:14 pm

Ok, the Islam then. It claims Mohammed to be the prophet of Alah. Why is such a claim less valid then yours?

And the flds example also claims prophetic roots and a living prophet.

Methinks you are avoiding my questions. Here they are:

Quote:

Some questions:

The process of the creation of the Quran is also quite miraculous, and the growth of Islam seems a much better match for the prophecy of Daniel in regards to the stone cut without hands filling the world. Why is Islam not the "true path"? Or is it as valid as other revealed religions?

Imagine if you would a devout FLDS sister. She has a witness of the spirit that Warren Jeffs is the true prophet of the lord, that the FLDS church is true, that the LDS church is in apostasy, and the she as a sister wife is fulfilling the will of god in regards to her life. Is your witness more valid/reliable than hers? Why or why not? They are both based on the same restoration narrative.

Tobin is a regular poster here. He believes that the Book of Mormon is a historical work detailing the events it describes and is the literal word of god translated by Joseph Smith. Yet Tobin claims that many of the current church teachings, policies, and doctrines are in error. Tobin claims to have seen god, making him in every bit of the word as much as an apostle as Paul or any of the LDS inc 15. Is Tobin's witness as valid as yours? Is his proclamation that the church is in error in some of its practices valid? He is an apostle after all.

Nighlion practices a type phrenology of mountains looking for god's will in the bumps and crags of the apocalrock. He (now correct me if I am wrong) affirms that the LDS church is in apostasy and many of its teaching are in error. Is his witness less valid/reliable than yours?

All claim the "beauty of revealed gospel" and most share a common root.

Are all correct? All equally valid? Or is one more valid/reliable/certain/correct than the others? Why or why not?

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