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 Post subject: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:01 am 
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Damn, I hope when TSM dies, BKP ascends to the throne and makes Holland his 1st Counselor. This clip is great.

Sorry if it offends any MDB posters, but Holland is about the worst possible PR "the Church" could have.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:38 am 
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I really enjoyed the video myself. I was entertained by Jeff Holland dodoing that one up.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:49 am 
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I'm flabbergasted Holland even did that interview and allowed those questions to be asked.

I'd like to watch the entire interview, if it's available. I'll look around.

No, Holland isn't a dodo, if by that you imply a lack of intelligence. Mormonism is not an IQ test, and neither are most other religions. My IQ wasn't any different as a TBM than it is now as an apostate, I merely know certain things I didn't know then, and have adjusted my attitude toward evidence, and have made certain decisions with respect to how I will approach the evidence. Also, certain underlying principles in my worldview that color how I see things have changed.

When Holland says dumb stuff about the Book of Abraham, it's not because he's stupid. It's because he believes the Book of Abraham is really true, and therefore he is willing to shrug off the question if he doesn't know the answer to it, with faith that maybe someday we'll know, or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:52 am 
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Here's a link to part 1 of a 6-part version of the John Sweeney "The Mormon Candidate" show from the BBC, that the interview from the OP is from.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:54 am 
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Sethbag wrote:
I'm flabbergasted Holland even did that interview and allowed those questions to be asked.

I'd like to watch the entire interview, if it's available. I'll look around.

No, Holland isn't a dodo, if by that you imply a lack of intelligence. Mormonism is not an IQ test, and neither are most other religions. My IQ wasn't any different as a TBM than it is now as an apostate, I merely know certain things I didn't know then, and have adjusted my attitude toward evidence, and have made certain decisions with respect to how I will approach the evidence. Also, certain underlying principles in my worldview that color how I see things have changed.

When Holland says dumb stuff about the Book of Abraham, it's not because he's stupid. It's because he believes the Book of Abraham is really true, and therefore he is willing to shrug off the question if he doesn't know the answer to it, with faith that maybe someday we'll know, or whatever.


I think the "dodo" aspect is in how poorly he came off in the interview, not in his underlying intelligence. He comes off as a dodo because the interviewer says "people say Mormonism is like Scientology only smarter" and he responds with "I went to a good school so we're not a cult" (paraphrasing). The accusation being made is that Mormons are weird and culty and Holland in the interview comes off as weird and culty.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:57 am 
Sethbag wrote:
Here's a link to part 1 of a 6-part version of the John Sweeney "The Mormon Candidate" show from the BBC, that the interview from the OP is from.


For connivence here is a link to it in its entirety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrUWd_XLQI


Last edited by Stormy Waters on Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:26 am 
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He has read a couple of books ... He is no dodo. Too bad he is shown by to be a blatant liar.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:18 am 
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I really enjoyed the interviews .... my wife, not so much


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:06 pm 
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How do we know important parts of the interview showing a different tone aren't cut out?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:07 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
How do we know important parts of the interview showing a different tone aren't cut out?


It doesn't matter, he flat out lied.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:12 pm 
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In other words, you're not sure and you can't honestly say that he lied. Got it. This is kinda like MSNBC cutting up Zimmerman's 911 call to make him look like a racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:25 pm 
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I would prefer if we didn't compare Elder Holland to George Zimmerman.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Joseph Antley wrote:
I would prefer if we didn't compare Elder Holland to George Zimmerman.

Occasionally you are dead right, Antley.

I'm not crazy about Holland and that is one sorry-ass interview, but BC has a habit of chopping himself (and the Church) off at the ankles.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:40 pm 
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I know that I'm a dick but every I read the subject line, I see it as "Is Jeffery Holland a dildo?"


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:43 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
How do we know important parts of the interview showing a different tone aren't cut out?

How do we know JSJr and his successors haven't just pulled all of Mormonism out of their asses?

Your call for foundation is an indictment against "the Church" to which you give undying allegiance.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Quote:
I would prefer if we didn't compare Elder Holland to George Zimmerman.


No one did. I merely pointed out that the situation with the media crucifying him probably shares the same yellow journalistic quality.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:52 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
I would prefer if we didn't compare Elder Holland to George Zimmerman.


No one did. I merely pointed out that the situation with the media crucifying him probably shares the same yellow journalistic quality.


It's a BBC interview. Please do tell how this is this either "yellow journalism" or the "media crucifying him."


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:57 pm 
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He's a dodo -- a lying ass cult leader.

The idiot couldn't claim to read the writing of Facsimile No. 3. Holland is a false translater. He is no prophet. He is no revelator. And he cannot translate Egyptian.

Period.

And, the church can't do a damn thing to me just because I masturbate.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:56 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
How do we know important parts of the interview showing a different tone aren't cut out?


Clearly, this interview showed the unrehearsed side of Jeffrey Holland. I too am flabbergasted that Holland would put himself in this position. My guess is portions may have been cut out to support your claim. That doesn't negate, however, the obvious uneasiness, squirming, and complete disaster of Holland's performance. I would love to get a professional body language expert's take on this. Holland seemed truly troubled.

Again we see how Mormon leaders confidence is shaken when confronting troubling issues in a public interview. I agree with Sethbag. Holland is not a dodo, just a believer. No amount of education and learning by itself will overcome false beliefs that one is indoctrinated with as a youth. Moreover, in my opinion, Holland is the biggest "sellout" of all the GAs.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:01 pm 
Yong wrote:
Holland is the biggest "sellout" of all the GAs


How so?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jeffrey Holland a dodo?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:01 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
How do we know important parts of the interview showing a different tone aren't cut out?


Unshown answers are much like unwritten doctrines. They exist for our benefit if we were but worthy to see or hear them. Alas, we must use our imagination in hearing how women and gays are now allowed allowed to hold the Priesthood with both hands.

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