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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:37 am 
God

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Franktalk wrote:
As the restrainer leaves the earth the powers of Satan will manifest. My guess is that around 5% of the faithful will remain faithful. I hope I am wrong. My hope is that billions are martyred.



Bcuzbcuz,

I think this excerpt from the OP may go someway towards clearing up any ambiguity surrounding Franktalk's posting motives.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:05 am 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Frank is trying to make the case for spirituality being more important than anything physical. In this example he (and Sheryl) think it more important to sit with the people and give them spiritual comfort as opposed to saving any of them.


I, for one, would never run into a burning building just because it is a burning building. I assumed in the scenario that someone had shouted out, either in pain or in the hope of being saved. If someone is calling out for help, I will also assume that they do, in fact, want help.

If I was a believing Christian/Moslim/Buddhist would I then just sit down with the "soon-to-be-burned-alive" victims and say, "In your best interest I am not going to try to save you???????" Would not a very "heated" discussion (pun intended) follow over the merits of dying now or dying later?

Should they accept my premise (my outstandlingly selfish premise, I might add) that their "being burned alive" was in their own best interest, would I comfort them with hearing their "death-bed confessions"? The baby in swaddling presumably could not confess....nor need to....nor be able to have the free will to choose to be burnt alive....(I presumably am willing to make the babies decision, in proxy, for it). The baby in the womb could not, unless through ventriloquism or saintly protection, speak for itself. (Again, I take that responsibility upon myself.) Whose confession would I hear first?

Does anyone else feel that this is a bullcrap discussion? We might as well be discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I think this is a "straw man", and a burning straw man, at that.


YES! Vain imaginings! So be it. Some enjoy the game :rolleyes:
Live & let live :smile: Roger


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:34 am 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
First, I would marvel at finding a place where all the people, other than myself, were basically immobile.

I would have the pregnant woman carry the baby in her arms, I would carry them both, and the ten year old would hobble, using me for support.

Having worked in counselling I know from experience that both the survivors and the rescuer need grief counselling about the person(s) not saved.

What I don't understand is what your question has to do with the topic? Or is it designed for a one person audience?


The question is made for us to think about our priorities. The physical running in and pulling people out is not the intent of the question. All of the responses that deal with the physical reality are very limited in what they describe. What is the thinking process and what about the worth of the people. How is that determined? I have stated that the worth of all of them are the same no matter the age or condition. The worth is associated with their spirit and not their flesh.

If one believes in the Kingdom of God then that has to mean something. It also means that this world is not all there is. If you wrap yourself with the concept of an afterlife then everything in this world shifts in perspective and priority. It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
The question is made for us to think about our priorities. The physical running in and pulling people out is not the intent of the question.


Thanks. You state that which I implied, that this scenario is an exercise in futility, a mind game. Mind games are a driving factor in religion. Create an issue; provide an answer. The scenario with religion is: What would happen if......... And the game begins.

When the angry, punishing god of the old testament had run its gamut, enter the kind, loving god. The kind, loving god who just wants to test us to see if we really like him. A rather forlorn, clingy god who plays at: "Go Away, Come Closer" games.

Franktalk wrote:
If one believes in the Kingdom of God then that has to mean something. It also means that this world is not all there is. If you wrap yourself with the concept of an afterlife then everything in this world shifts in perspective and priority.


It's the ultimate mortgage plan. You get to stand outside in the cold, But, keep those payments coming. If you've paid enough, and god happens to like you (he already knows if you're going to succeed or not) and you fulfill his payment plan to every seen and unseen iota, then and only then, will he give you a mansion in the sky. (Which, by the way, due to contract restrictions, you can neither see nor touch, and you only get to inhabit after you're dead)

That, to me, sounds like the ultimate shill game.

Franktalk wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.


I can't speak for anyone else, other than myself. It was not an easy decision to leave the LDS faith. And it was not a happy divorce. My mother had my name on countless temple prayer lists, hoping against hope, that I would see the error of my ways. But she didn't want to see and never wanted to hear, my side of the story. She would literally get heart cramps if I even suggested I was content with being outside the faith. (guilt trip)

But that is an interesting juxtapositioning you make. "Leave the LDS faith: Join the world." How about: Leave Wonderland; Join reality.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:10 am 
God

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Franktalk wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.


Hi Frank, You use some interesting terminology to express opinions based upon your own sentiments.

bcuzbcuz gave a good scenario of what you have subscribed to, yet you seem to write it off as if it is faulty, and that you are absolutely correct. And all non believers in the here-after are wrong and without faith?? Or so it seems that's the way you think. . .

Let me try, "...to tell you otherwise."
I graduated from Mormonism. Smarter, more experienced, more knowledgeable about LDSism & Christianity, than I was 30+ years before. I seldom look back with regrets. I/we willingly gave much, and got back huge returns.
You might wonder why we left??

Because Mormonism exposed/proved its self to be not what it pretended to be.
Mormonism is an insular society with an inflated opinion of itself & its supposed destiny. It is despotic, authoritarian & totalitarian, never professing any democratic activities... A one party system. . . It's their way or no way! LDS Templeism, IN MY SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED OPINION, (IMSCO) is an entrapment that appeals to a particular mind set. That by its very creed and rituals is elitist and prejudicial to the extreme!

Much like Communism, an Atheistic party, Mormonism is a quasi Theistic system that has convinced its faithful, from day-one, that God directs this one special (true) church, and it only, by revelation to THE one Prophet on earth. This one being Thomas S. Monson. . .
The first prophet in this dispensation was Joseph Smith, Jr. (circa 1830)

"Joining the world..." Not sure what you mean by that? Generally speaking, I haven't met any Mormons, and I've met 1,000s, who are not worldly. LDS saying: "In the world but not of it!" OR trying for worldly success?? Like who isn't, eh? :wink:
Do you know of anyone, LDS or otherwise, who has followed Jesus' path to perfection: "Sell what you have & give the $$ to the poor!"
Maybe your "world" concept is more uniquely yours than you expect???

So Frank, I don't know if I was frank enough. But I tried to answer / explain that leaving Mormonism is usually done with much serious consideration. It's not something taken lightly. Especially by someone who has been a "Faithful Member" for several/many years.
When they don't return, I think you can be assured, that for them, 'leaving' was definitely the right thing to do. . . As well seeing the whole salvation/blood atonement and resurrection dogma as being fantasia and not contributing to the good life Jesus encouraged. "Know the truth and be free!"

Best regards & luck, Roger


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:47 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.


Hi Frank!

You know that this is not true with me. I left the Mormon Church and grew closer to God. And from the perspective that I hold now, those who are active members of the Mormon Church are still joined with the world.

Perhaps we have a difference of opinion as to what 'world' is?

I define world as functioning according to the negativity of the world, or living with feelings of lack, under the delusion of separation, causing one to seek for self alone.

Signs of not being of the world are:

1. Living according to the Christ Presence and Power within, instead of simply reacting to what happens to one's self.

2. Seeing God in all things, whether apparently auspicious or inauspicious. Giving praise and thanks to God for all that God has given, even that which is unpleasant.

3. Able to love all, including one's enemies.

4. Seeking or desiring happiness, healing, illumination - the good, for all, and resting in faith that what does unfold in this world is all according God's Will. Our heart wish though being for the elimination of suffering, of all, and having faith that our heart wish will be granted, in God's timing and Wisdom.

5. Always keeping our eye focused above, beyond our self, into the heavens. Living in constant prayer for this world. Expecting in faith the liberation of all beings.

Those who are not able to live in this manner, which is obeying Christ's Commandments and abiding in His Word, are still of the world. They have not yet matured sufficiently to 'come our of her'. I believe though that those gathered at a Board such as this one, are maturing, are seeking and will soon come out of her, or the world. If not in this life, then soon after.

Shalom!

Sheryl


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:56 pm 
God

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sheryl wrote:
Franktalk wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.


Hi Frank!

You know that this is not true with me. I left the Mormon Church and grew closer to God. And from the perspective that I hold now, those who are active members of the Mormon Church are still joined with the world.

Perhaps we have a difference of opinion as to what 'world' is?

I define world as functioning according to the negativity of the world, or living with feelings of lack, under the delusion of separation, causing one to seek for self alone.

Signs of not being of the world are:

1. Living according to the Christ Presence and Power within, instead of simply reacting to what happens to one's self.

2. Seeing God in all things, whether apparently auspicious or inauspicious. Giving praise and thanks to God for all that God has given, even that which is unpleasant.

3. Able to love all, including one's enemies.

4. Seeking or desiring happiness, healing, illumination - the good, for all, and resting in faith that what does unfold in this world is all according God's Will. Our heart wish though being for the elimination of suffering, of all, and having faith that our heart wish will be granted, in God's timing and Wisdom.

5. Always keeping our eye focused above, beyond our self, into the heavens. Living in constant prayer for this world. Expecting in faith the liberation of all beings.

Those who are not able to live in this manner, which is obeying Christ's Commandments and abiding in His Word, are still of the world. They have not yet matured sufficiently to 'come our of her'. I believe though that those gathered at a Board such as this one, are maturing, are seeking and will soon come out of her, or the world. If not in this life, then soon after.

Shalom!

Sheryl



Hey Sheryl!
Love your thoughts!
If only Christianism taught, and lived by, such Christ like principles and practices!! WOW!!! Congrats on your perceptions. . .
I agree. Time and evolving humanity can bring into being such a society. However, THE big obstacle is Christianity's obsession with sin and salvation, Armagedon, resurrection and the next life. YIKES! IT'S THIS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE NEXT/ANOTHER????????????

Although, I do think there are more enlightened groups emerging from commercialized religion, they still orchestrate the mainstream faith-based Christian-Church-World. . . Their longevity is somewhat discouraging as they proselytize, world wide, a model vastly different from the cooperative, humanitarian model Jesus personified. As I see it. . .
Peace & Love,
Roger :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Roger Morrison wrote:

Hey Sheryl!
Love your thoughts!
If only Christianism taught, and lived by, such Christ like principles and practices!! WOW!!! Congrats on your perceptions. . .
I agree. Time and evolving humanity can bring into being such a society. However, THE big obstacle is Christianity's obsession with sin and salvation, Armagedon, resurrection and the next life. YIKES! IT'S THIS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE NEXT/ANOTHER????????????

Although, I do think there are more enlightened groups emerging from commercialized religion, they still orchestrate the mainstream faith-based Christian-Church-World. . . Their longevity is somewhat discouraging as they proselytize, world wide, a model vastly different from the cooperative, humanitarian model Jesus personified. As I see it. . .
Peace & Love,
Roger :smile:


Hi Roger!

There is much confusion regarding the definitions of these words - sin, salvation, resurrection, Armageddon, and the next life. Leading to much discord in discussions.

The tradition that I follow was oral - all teachings were passed down orally from mouth to ear, true knowing coming from each's inner experiencing or expansion of consciousness/awareness, actually experiencing what was taught verbally. And it is this inner experiencing and true knowing that results in one being able to emulate Christ, walk as he walked.

When the Nag Hammadi library was found, the Gnostic texts discovered reflected these same teachings found in our oral traditions, so we began to call ourselves 'Gnostic'. But first and foremost we are Christian - offering a Christian path to enlightenment.

(One difference between these and other Gnostic texts and what we know as Biblical Gospels is that the former contain the teachings given by the Risen Messiah, and the latter, the teachings given before death and Resurrection.)

One such teaching is that you will not know the Resurrection fully in the 'after life' if you have not experienced something of it while the body still lives. And so while there are indeed many groups appearing more enlightened emerging from the commercialized religions, only those who are led by men and women knowing the Resurrection can be truly call enlightened. And these existed long before recent times, long before this recent emerging.

Such emerging though reflects the readiness of this world for spreading the True Gospel to all 'four corners'.

Shalom!

Sheryl


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:01 pm 
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sheryl wrote:
Hi Frank!

You know that this is not true with me.

Shalom!

Sheryl


Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.

The LDS church has many people in it that are very spiritual. But it seems you did not run into any on your path. It does seem though you made the right choice.

Frank


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Franktalk wrote:
Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.

The LDS church has many people in it that are very spiritual. But it seems you did not run into any on your path. It does seem though you made the right choice.

Frank


LOL Everyone who doesn't believe what Frank believes must be of the world and afraid as well. Somehow being smart enough to realize that sitting down and stupidly trying to preach to people in a burning building is not the best idea, and instead being smart enough to realize that maybe you should just start grabbing people and hauling them out. Of course with frank this makes you worldly and afraid of death. Frank, maybe it might be you who is in need of mental help.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Themis,

Franktalk wrote:
As the restrainer leaves the earth the powers of Satan will manifest. My guess is that around 5% of the faithful will remain faithful. I hope I am wrong. My hope is that billions are martyred.


We ain't in Kansas anymore...

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Franktalk said:

Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.


I agree, FEAR is a big driver of insecure people. I find it amusing that many who say they live-by-faith are afraid to pick up hitch-hikers and aspire to gated communities??
The bed-mate of fear and insecurity is GREED! Gotta have more!! Why? To look/feel more attractive, accepted, righteous, important. . . I suggest, yes! I was there. LOL!
The world power/wealth hungry has always used fear, of more than death, to achieve their ends... At the same time they can literally 'make' folks run into the jaws of death for God and country, and all things under the shadow of those two dynamic persuasions.

Yes, the spiritual are strong, because of their confident disposition. Whether Theist or Atheist it matters not... To paraphrase: the aware & confident walk where the ignorant and ill-prepared fear to tread. . .

Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Roger Morrison wrote:
Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger


The LDS church has no power. The LDS church does not command the thoughts of anyone and the church respects free will.

In a similar way when the RCC went apostate the members were still free to be saved by their faith in God. The LDS church and the RCC does not have the power to save anyone or deny someone from being saved. All of these things are a personal choice. A doctrine is a meaningless bunch of words unless you give those words power.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:24 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
Roger Morrison wrote:
Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger[/quot

The LDS church has no power. The LDS church does not command the thoughts of anyone and the church respects free will.

In a similar way when the RCC went apostate the members were still free to be saved by their faith in God. The LDS church and the RCC does not have the power to save anyone or deny someone from being saved. All of these things are a personal choice. A doctrine is a meaningless bunch of words unless you give those words power.


The LDS church has great influence and the self-assumed authority to declare a person 'worthy, or not, to enter a degree of eternal glory / damnation, as LDS hieararchy, authorized by the HMPH declares. Seems that could be considered 'power'.

But you are correct, only within the LDS jurisdiction. . . Now God's / Nature's power IS real! It shows no respect of persons! In the path of a tornado you get it! Not in the path you don't!

So in effect, are you suggesting the LDS church is basically a powerless, "meaningless bunch of words". . .? Until it is purchased, then the 'power' is turned on to light up life?
IF you keep the account paid up? Maybe too personal? But do you, Frank, have a LDS account? In arrears?

Enjoying our dialogue. Thank you. Roger :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am 
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Franktalk wrote:
Many are called to be martyrs today and many more will be called in the not too distance future.


CFR

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:01 am 
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Themis wrote:

LOL Everyone who doesn't believe what Frank believes must be of the world and afraid as well. Somehow being smart enough to realize that sitting down and stupidly trying to preach to people in a burning building is not the best idea, and instead being smart enough to realize that maybe you should just start grabbing people and hauling them out. Of course with frank this makes you worldly and afraid of death. Frank, maybe it might be you who is in need of mental help.


Hi Themis!

For the disciples I know, this world is a burning building, and the only way out is not by avoiding the fire, but journeying within, finding Christ within and thus being transformed into fire.

This is what Jesus meant when he said that he came to baptize this world with fire, to set this world on fire. This is what is meant when it is said that God is a burning fire.

This kind of spiritual fire destroys everything that is not like it, or rather turns everything into itself. Thus the "preaching" I was advocating is for helping others to become like the fire, or to find their true self within that is like fire, so that when the fire destroys their outer being, knowing themselves as more, they do not die.

This is why the followers of Christ do not fear death, do not fear burning buildings, for they know who they truly are, and know that while fire destroys buildings, bodies, etc, it will not destroy them. And this is not just a concept. It is knowing this inner self and being able to move one's consciousness away from the outer being, to separate oneself from this limited self view snd letting it fall to fire, and even rejoicing in the fire.

Thus disciples of Christ see that the Revelation of John is not speaking about destruction, but freedom, freeing humans from bondage to a limited self, or bondage to the fear of death of this limited self. Revelation is a description of being in the world that is a burning fire.

Disciples of Christ do not become martyrs in the traditional sense. They willingly lay down their physical clothes for the benefit of others. Knowing it is not really a sacrifice, it is a natural act of love, like giving of oneself to those in need. They have awakened within to themselves as an infinite eternal being. The physical body just being a temporary abode for this infinite being.

[I must add that laying down one's physical life even for a disciple is not necessary a piece of cake, for the death of the physical clothes hurts, but through prayer and aligning with the will of God, they become able to move through the suffering and 'transfer the consciousness' that was aligned with the physical body, to the infinite body. "Into your hands I commit my Spirit" - Jesus. We all practice a taste of this each night when we fall asleep.]

This is what 'enlightenment' or salvation is all about. The personality finding its true self - this infinite being within, Christ within, and aligning with it, thus finding eternal life. It not about earning eternal life, as though God hands out get out of jail free cards, it is about finding eternal life within oneself.

Shalom!
Sheryl


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:27 am 
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sheryl wrote:

This kind of spiritual fire destroys everything that is not like it, or rather turns everything into itself. Thus the "preaching" I was advocating is for helping others to become like the fire, or to find their true self within that is like fire, so that when the fire destroys their outer being, knowing themselves as more, they do not die.



You knew what the question was about, that it was a real fire, so your suggestion was really dumb. Now you want to change the question. I am fine with different questions, but the initial question was not about a spiritual fire. If you want people to understand what you mean, you need to be more specific that you are changing things like the initial question. The spiritual fire is meaningless with the initial question, which was who you would decide to pull out of a burning building if you only had time to get one out.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:36 am 
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Themis,

The Kingdom of God (or Church of God) here on earth can not be "burned down". Let's suppose tomorrow that everyone stopped believing in Mormonism. That will not change a thing. God will still return, the world will still burn, and the work that is suppose to happen in the Mormon temples will still happen. It is inevitable. It does not matter what happens right now; what the critics of the Church say or do; or how many they persuade to leave.

Now, I personally wouldn't be upset to see the current version of the Mormon church die. I think it is actually a pretty terrible monster. However, I do not confuse that with the "real" Church of God. There will always be those interested in doing what God wants, seeking him, and meeting together to honor (worship) him. To have that Church is not hard. You can hold meetings in a house. Bread and wine (and yes, I made that clarification - the beliefs of Mormons in this regard are incorrect) are inexpensive so partaking of the sacrament is easy. Expressing one's beliefs at these meetings and sharing in the gospel is also a simple thing. There is no way critics of the Church can stop such activities.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
Themis,

The Kingdom of God (or Church of God) here on earth can not be "burned down".


That's your belief. I'm fine with that, but we are talking about soemthing else in regards to the question of who you would carry out of a burning building. You can have all the crazy beliefs you want. I suppose since the LDS church is a monster, and you think God is talking to you, even though you never sought after him, you will be starting your own religious movement soon.

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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Themis wrote:
Tobin wrote:
Themis,
The Kingdom of God (or Church of God) here on earth can not be "burned down".

That's your belief. I'm fine with that, but we are talking about soemthing else in regards to the question of who you would carry out of a burning building. You can have all the crazy beliefs you want. I suppose since the LDS church is a monster, and you think God is talking to you, even though you never sought after him, you will be starting your own religious movement soon.
I'm interested in the truth and I think my beliefs about the LDS church have been born-out time and time again. Apostasy and men perverting the ways of the Lord is an on-going problem. The remedy to that is to speak with God and do what God says. If you find that belief "crazy", that is your prerogative. I guess we'll see which of us is correct.


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 Post subject: Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:42 pm 
God
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: AZ
Just how many times in Biblical history did all of the people or even a majority of them follow the Lord the way they should? With all of the support from God by supplying prophets, Kings, and Apostles one might think that the Jews or the Christians would collect around the truth. But just as we are all sinners we are all weak. The world is strong and we do fall. So very few actually read scripture with spiritual eyes and discern the message from God. This is a problem of man and not of any one church. All churches suffer the same fate. They all need to be reset all of the time.


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