It is currently Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:10 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:45 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
I witnessed an address by a Mission President to a group of young men and their Fathers. His talk was geared towards encouraging the young men to serve missions.

At one point in his discourse he promised the young men that if they served missions they would be able to get more choice wives and have better children. Those were his exact phrases.

I don't believe he had thought his words through.

A portion of the audience were young men who's Fathers hadn't served missions - he had just told them that they weren't as good as the kids their Father could have had.

A portion of the audience were Fathers who hadn't served missions - he had just told them their wives weren't as choice as the ones they could have married.

My question - is this the Church's position, or just his inspired position?

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:03 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 12064
Location: Kli-flos-is-es
Here's the flowchart:

Is it embarrassing to the church? Y - Speaking as a man
N - Inspired doctrine, unless some point in the future it becomes embarassing, in which case - Speaking as a man

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: The Orange House: The loft overlooking the garden
My bishop told my brother that he would get a beautiful wife by serving a mission.

When he left his mission (early) his MP told him he would have a horrible life and an undesirable wife.

So, yeah, this does appear to be a belief of the church and some of its members. I was dumbfounded when I heard it because of the implications you mention. It is a very stupid teaching.

_________________
not all facts are even facts~ldsfaqs
And if pigs flew we wouldn't usually eat pork.~ldsfaqs


~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:55 am 
Star B
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:12 pm
Posts: 112
It seems that there are always 'worldly' blessings attached to serving the Lord in Mormon culture. Heaven forbid that in following Jesus one actually gets a cross and privation rather than a beautiful family, successful career, and a large suburban house with 2 SUVs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:13 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 5872
I think this type of thinking and attitude is found in the Church. Of course its found in many churches. But I can't stand this type of thinking. I find it troubling.

_________________
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:22 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
stemelbow wrote:
I think this type of thinking and attitude is found in the Church. Of course its found in many churches. But I can't stand this type of thinking. I find it troubling.


I agree with you Stem.
I just don't know if this is isolated human failing or institutionalised policy.

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:12 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 4463
Location: Your mother's purse
Buffalo wrote:
Here's the flowchart:

Is it embarrassing to the church? Y - Speaking as a man
N - Inspired doctrine, unless some point in the future it becomes embarassing, in which case - Speaking as a man

you forgot third option:
Is it an exaggerated or fabricated anecdote put forth by an atheist or bitter former member or self-doubting critic? Y - then thread is bait.
i do not believe a word of the story in OP.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:15 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
subgenius wrote:
i do not believe a word of the story in OP.


and that's important because....


Sadly sub, if anything, I've underplayed what he actually said.

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:31 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 4463
Location: Your mother's purse
jon wrote:
subgenius wrote:
i do not believe a word of the story in OP.


and that's important because....

well i have recently discovered that factual and verifiable events are of the utmost importance in establishing the credibility of any "story".
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20563


Quote:
Sadly sub, if anything, I've underplayed what he actually said.

in light of the above mentioned thread you must be able to offer evidence/proof that what you say is true and actual and verifiable....or else you may be a "liar.
There is more reason to believe you fabricated the OP than not.

i can wait for the proof of what you say in the OP.....then....we can legitimately discuss your "point".
(just wait until you re-tell that story in 40 years, no telling what you will say)

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:41 am 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 673
jon wrote:
At one point in his discourse he promised the young men that if they served missions they would be able to get more choice wives and have better children. Those were his exact phrases.


Probably good advice If you want a wife that has S*** for brains.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:45 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
Sub, I love it!

Great response, except I'm not a Prophet standing up at a Conference on behalf of God and I absolutely could be fabricating this tale and you have no way of verifying it (unlike Monson's Conference story).

However, if you read above I think you'll find a poster who doesn't see eye to eye with me on a number of things, confirming that this type of thing actually does go on.

So sub,

1. Do you believe this is down to human error? or
2. Does the Church believe this?

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:08 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 3829
subgenius,

Alvin R. Dyer did a missionary conference talk years back (he was a member of first pres) in which this concept dated back to faithfulness levels in the pre-mortal existence, where mortal rewards resulted in one being born to goodly parents in the "promised land" verses waking up in Ethiopia starving and with aids.

There is nothing new about rewards based faithfulness in the LDS religion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:54 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 12064
Location: Kli-flos-is-es
subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
Here's the flowchart:

Is it embarrassing to the church? Y - Speaking as a man
N - Inspired doctrine, unless some point in the future it becomes embarassing, in which case - Speaking as a man

you forgot third option:
Is it an exaggerated or fabricated anecdote put forth by an atheist or bitter former member or self-doubting critic? Y - then thread is bait.
i do not believe a word of the story in OP.


Apparently you're an inactive Mormon and not familiar with what goes on in these sorts of meetings.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:20 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 4463
Location: Your mother's purse
jon wrote:
Sub, I love it!

Great response, except I'm not a Prophet standing up at a Conference on behalf of God and I absolutely could be fabricating this tale and you have no way of verifying it (unlike Monson's Conference story).

However, if you read above I think you'll find a poster who doesn't see eye to eye with me on a number of things, confirming that this type of thing actually does go on.

So sub,

1. Do you believe this is down to human error? or
2. Does the Church believe this?

it is a given that you are not a prophet...however the thread mentioned did not make that a condition for the truthfulness of things...nor is it perpetuated that a prophet is infallible (even Christ missed one or two).

you have yet to prove that "this" exists at all - see my prior post.
so, answers to both 1 and 2, are "no" with regards to what you would consider "this".

still waiting for your "evidence", until then i stand by the claim that your story is a fabrication and merits no further discussion, founded on the thread i have referenced above.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:23 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 4463
Location: Your mother's purse
RockSlider wrote:
subgenius,

Alvin R. Dyer did a missionary conference talk years back (he was a member of first pres) in which this concept dated back to faithfulness levels in the pre-mortal existence, where mortal rewards resulted in one being born to goodly parents in the "promised land" verses waking up in Ethiopia starving and with aids.

There is nothing new about rewards based faithfulness in the LDS religion.

reductionist crap.
1. The topic of this thread is clearly stated in the OP, and those "facts" are in question.
2. A notion of "choice" and "better" is relative in this context.
3. The "concept" is true, but the application of that concept in this thread's OP is not.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:34 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 3829
subgenius wrote:
reductionist crap.
1. The topic of this thread is clearly stated in the OP, and those "facts" are in question.
2. A notion of "choice" and "better" is relative in this context.
3. The "concept" is true, but the application of that concept in this thread's OP is not.


Well, I could care less about arguing if the OP stories true, heck I've personally heard the "concept" told many times in many varieties.

Even the idea that Mormon's believe your item 2 and 3 is what is troubling to many other Christians that believe that Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven work on the concept of "Grace".

It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.

Out of 7 heavens, the upper 5 only appear to be available to Mormon's (via endowment), and to achieve the highest is very "requirements" based.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:44 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 18169
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
RockSlider wrote:
It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.


And women are once again reduced to being judged based on appearance rather than intrinsic worth. For their bodies instead of for their minds. For their rlative attractiveness instead of their abilities.

Foolish foolish men.

_________________
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:54 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: The Orange House: The loft overlooking the garden
harmony wrote:
RockSlider wrote:
It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.


And women are once again reduced to being judged based on appearance rather than intrinsic worth. For their bodies instead of for their minds. For their rlative attractiveness instead of their abilities.

Foolish foolish men.


They are reduced to trophy status.

_________________
not all facts are even facts~ldsfaqs
And if pigs flew we wouldn't usually eat pork.~ldsfaqs


~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:05 am 
2nd Counselor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 412
I've had many a missionary relate the belief that they will get a prettier wife by going on a mission. Many still believe it. Perhaps the church leaders that have stated this do so in inspiring more men to go on missions - at any cost and for any reason.. For shame.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:05 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: AZ
In the book of Job God had placed a hedge around Job because he was a righteous man. But God allowed Satan to take away Job's possessions and then torture him. Job remained righteous. So we learn that God does place a hedge around some people. Abraham comes to mind and the entire future after Abraham is changed because those who bless the offspring of Abraham will be blessed and those who curse his descendants are cursed. But do these blessings and curses come in the flesh or are they after we die? I would say a mixture. To promise a blessing from God about a future relationship does seem like a stretch but if one sees this through different eyes it may make more sense. If indeed your are a righteous person will you attract a righteous mate? If you surround yourself with righteous people are the chances better that you will have a righteous wife? These kinds of things are better left in general context and people should avoid making statements that appeal to the flesh. But many do think rewards will be on the earth. It can happen but is rare. More than likely trials will take place.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Does the Church believe this...?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:12 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 18169
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Franktalk wrote:
If indeed your are a righteous person will you attract a righteous mate? If you surround yourself with righteous people are the chances better that you will have a righteous wife?


Righteous does not equal pretty.

_________________
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group