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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:54 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
Will-

Beastie quoted your comments to Kimberly Ann ...

/snip remainder/

I read the entire post very carefully. It left me wondering where the cause for offense was found. Did that part get excluded by some kind of message board filtering function?
.
.
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BTW, did you ever happen to read Kimberly Ann's brilliantly hilarious blog post about her breast reduction surgery? My wife and I laughed 'til we cried the night we read it together. It was very well done; very entertaining. I wish she'd post it here for the benefit of those who might have missed it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:56 am 
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Will Schryver wrote:
Can't we all just get along?

Sorry, stem buddy, we passed that milepost long ago ... besides, I'm not persuaded it would really be that nice.


pep pep...I had this thought earlier. My goodness when you aren't here your name gets brought up to express hostility. I can see how it gets never-ending in that way. But, if the posters jump on board I think its possible. We can all finally move forward. Half the threads won't be dedicated to these personal quibbles. What a glorious place this trailor park could be. Just imagine...all holding hands, singing songs, enjoying each other's company, talking about things that are way over stem's head just so stem can learn from you all. I'd love it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:59 am 
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Will Schryver wrote:
BTW, did you ever happen to read Kimberly Ann's brilliantly hilarious blog post about her breast reduction surgery? My wife and I laughed 'til we cried the night we read it together.


Was this before or after you told your wife how you'd be drooling over KA's cleavage?

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:59 am 
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I would just like to give Will credit for being the most creatively offensive poster here I have seen so far.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:03 am 
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stemelbow wrote:
Will Schryver wrote:
Can't we all just get along?

Sorry, stem buddy, we passed that milepost long ago ... besides, I'm not persuaded it would really be that nice.


pep pep...I had this thought earlier. My goodness when you aren't here your name gets brought up to express hostility. I can see how it gets never-ending in that way. But, if the posters jump on board I think its possible. We can all finally move forward. Half the threads won't be dedicated to these personal quibbles. What a glorious place this trailor park could be. Just imagine...all holding hands, singing songs, enjoying each other's company, talking about things that are way over stem's head just so stem can learn from you all. I'd love it.

Your well-intentioned naïveté notwithstanding, there are some toxic waste dumps that can only be fixed by a good plowing under followed by a hundred years of quarantine.

In the case of the denizens of the GSTP, it's scheduled for an even thousand.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:04 am 
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The Reaping wrote:
I would just like to give Will credit for being the most creatively offensive poster here I have seen so far.

I'm sincerely flattered ...

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:04 am 
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Will, are you seriously asking us to take your word over Bokovoy's? Your history of lying is wide and deep and Bokovoy's is . . . non-existent. For anyone who has interacted with the two of you, this choice is beyond easy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:08 am 
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Fifth Columnist wrote:
Will, are you seriously asking us to take your word over Bokovoy's?

Not at all. I'm merely calling David's shockingly ill-advised bluff.

Cards on the table ...

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I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:09 am 
Will Schryver wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
Will-

Beastie quoted your comments to Kimberly Ann ...

/snip remainder/

I read the entire post very carefully. It left me wondering where the cause for offense was found. Did that part get excluded by some kind of message board filtering function?
.
.
.
BTW, did you ever happen to read Kimberly Ann's brilliantly hilarious blog post about her breast reduction surgery? My wife and I laughed 'til we cried the night we read it together. It was very well done; very entertaining. I wish she'd post it here for the benefit of those who might have missed it.


Here is a link to the exact screen shot and the post you made from that thread, Will:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11836&p=294704#p294704

Tim Tribe, a fellow priesthood holder, and an apologist who no longer posts on the message boards, was duly offended by your comment.

As far as Kim's blog is concerned, you would have to ask her.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:11 am 
God
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Will Schryver wrote:
Not at all. I'm merely calling David's shockingly ill-advised bluff.

Cards on the table ...



Play your cards right… you live to talk about it!

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You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:12 am 
Will Schryver wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
... I am appalled that you would mock that gospel that I have committed my life to, by your actions.

I, too, would be "appalled" if someone were even half as guilty of the high crimes and misdemeanors imputed to me in this place.

But somehow I think your performance on this thread (and elsewhere on this board, over the years) says a lot more about you than it does about me.


Are you denying that you called Kim a whore, and used the Book of Mormon as a reference to do it?

The thread where this occurred is quoted in my post above....context included.

I'm not sure which is worse, Will. You denying your actions, or unapologetically defending them.

It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, isn't it?

If you deny the allegations, you can be called out as a liar because the proof of your words is in black and white.

If you unapologetically defend your actions, then you come across as a callous loose cannon to your apologist peers.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:14 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, isn't it?

If you deny the allegations, you can be called out as a liar because the proof of your words is in black and white.

If you unapologetically defend your actions, then you come across as a callous loose cannon to your apologist peers.


Then there is the option of apologizing to the offended parties and discontinuing the behavior. There's a thought!

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"I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser." ~Brigham Young


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:14 am 
God
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Or you could just say you're sorry . . .

(I was one nano-second too late.)

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You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:24 am 
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In the hopes of helping this matter to die, concerning Will's emails, I will simply say this:

I believe Will that he has never sent an email with the intention to cause problems for my career. I am very confident that that this was never his objective. Can unfounded concerns raised by people have a negative consequence for people in my profession, absolutely, so I was bothered, yes.

However, for the record, I am in no way concerned that Will's exchanges with BYU and Maxwell Institute scholars will in anyway limit my professional opportunities as a religious educator. People know me, and know were I stand. If anyone ever had a concern, it would be quickly alleviated if they were to attend even a few moments of one of my classes.

Will's emails were simply not that big of a deal (nor do I believe he intended them to be). I was simply frustrated by the issue and Will's refusal to accept both my explanation and my personal offer to "bury the hatchet" on this matter.

With this issue somewhat fresh on my mind, I reacted to Will's comment:

Quote:
"What you fail to understand is that I am not the only one who is watching. How tragic when aspirations and possibilities draw further and further apart, without us even being aware ... "


Whether or not Will intended the "others" who were watching that might limit my "aspirations and possibilities" to reflect those involved in his exchanges, that was certainly the way I read his post. I'll accept his explanation that this was not his intent.

I will not add to this drama by posting public email exchanges and ask all others to simply let the issue drop. It will not have any effect upon my career, nor do I believe that Will intended to cause problems for my professional "aspirations."

I hope this clarifies, for this is my final word on the subject.

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Last edited by Enuma Elish on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:25 am 
Kishkumen wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, isn't it?

If you deny the allegations, you can be called out as a liar because the proof of your words is in black and white.

If you unapologetically defend your actions, then you come across as a callous loose cannon to your apologist peers.


Then there is the option of apologizing to the offended parties and discontinuing the behavior. There's a thought!

Exactly!

I respected Will when he apologized for referring to Emma Smith as a bitch..and also commented that he would like to start a thread about research he was doing on her. Blixa has done a lot of research on Emma, and I think that this would be a fascinating thread to read and learn from.

Everyone makes mistakes.

Will, I don't begrudge you defending yourself, or defending your positions regarding the faith. It is the needless, and often very cruel, tearing down of others that you have done that I take issue with.

Look, I am, in no way saying that I am perfect here. I have had my share of heated arguments on this board. But I honestly cannot remember a time where I blatantly, cruelly attacked someone in an initiatory fashion. If I ever did do that, I will state here and now that I am truly sorry for doing so.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:27 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
Are you denying that you called Kim a whore ...

That is correct.

I categorically deny that I ever called the lovely Kimberly Ann a whore.

Notwithstanding the many nasty things she has said about and imputed to me over the years, I have always quite liked Kimberly, and greatly prefer her above the noxious crowd that predominates here. I think she is a very fine writer, with excellent taste in music, and a talent for clever repartee.

People are free, of course, to read the source document and reach their own conclusions. You see, that's the beauty of intentionally obscure references: they can be all things to all people.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:32 am 
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Hey, David-

I don't understand why it is that Will emailed anyone at BYU or the NMI about you. A moment's thought about the possible impact of doing that would have deterred most thoughtful people from doing it. Taken as a whole, Will's repeated vague insinuations about others watching, your future possibilities, and the fact that he emailed people, well, it simply smells rotten. I have no reason to trust Will. Within the last 24 hours he has given me (personally) good reason not to trust him. So, I applaud your efforts to quash the bad feelings, but the person who has done the most to cause those bad feelings is completely unapologetic about that fact, as he usually is.

K

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:34 am 
Will Schryver wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
Are you denying that you called Kim a whore ...

That is correct.

I categorically deny that I ever called the lovely Kimberly Ann a whore.

Notwithstanding the many nasty things she has said about and imputed to me over the years, I have always quite liked Kimberly, and greatly prefer her above the noxious crowd that predominates here. I think she is a very fine writer, with excellent taste in music, and a talent for clever repartee.

People are free, of course, to read the source document and reach their own conclusions. You see, that's the beauty of intentionally obscure references: they can be all things to all people.


I am sincerely glad that calling KA a whore was not your intent. I was extremely upset by this because KA IS a lovely person, and a friend of mine. However, can you honestly not see how placing a scriptural reference about a "whore of the earth" could be misconstrued?

Edited to add--you claim that this was an "intentionally obscure reference". What were you trying to infer?

How is there "beauty" in even one person reaching such an abhorrent conclusion?


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:38 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
I am sincerely glad that calling KA a whore was not your intent.


So what was his intent, if not that?

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"I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser." ~Brigham Young


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:38 am 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, isn't it?

If you deny the allegations, you can be called out as a liar because the proof of your words is in black and white.

If you unapologetically defend your actions, then you come across as a callous loose cannon to your apologist peers.


Then there is the option of apologizing to the offended parties and discontinuing the behavior. There's a thought!


Nah, repentance is for gentiles. Mopologists like Will are above that sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Best Hope for LDS Apologetics and Mormonism?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:41 am 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
I am sincerely glad that calling KA a whore was not your intent.


So what was his intent, if not that?


Of course he intended to call her a whore. He's playing with us now, because he's an excellent Christian.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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