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 Post subject: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Maybe you have seen that the church decided to roll up singles wards into larger congregations to prevent ward-shopping?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaith ... e.html.csp

Those of you who lived the singles ward life, I congratulate you. What an interesting life that was.... I still have a few friends that ward hop looking for fresh meat. I think my singles ward days were the days I paid the least amount of attention to doctrinal/spiritual matters being taught in church. They should have just cut to the chase and made church time a big get to know each other party.

It was kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLi7ohVT ... re=related

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:40 pm 
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zeezrom wrote:
Maybe you have seen that the church decided to roll up singles wards into larger congregations to prevent ward-shopping?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaith ... e.html.csp

Those of you who lived the singles ward life, I congratulate you. What an interesting life that was.... I still have a few friends that ward hop looking for fresh meat. I think my singles ward days were the days I paid the least amount of attention to doctrinal/spiritual matters being taught in church. They should have just cut to the chase and made church time a big get to know each other party.

It was kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLi7ohVT ... re=related


What is the difference between singles wards, that they are doing away with, and all-singles stakes, that they are forming?

The new general handbook does away with single adult wards in places other than colleges.

H.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:44 pm 
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LDSToronto wrote:
What is the difference between singles wards, that they are doing away with, and all-singles stakes, that they are forming?

The new general handbook does away with single adult wards in places other than colleges.

H.


We have 4 YSA branches here. None are being rolled together or into family wards.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:51 pm 
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harmony wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:
What is the difference between singles wards, that they are doing away with, and all-singles stakes, that they are forming?

The new general handbook does away with single adult wards in places other than colleges.

H.


We have 4 YSA branches here. None are being rolled together or into family wards.


Figures you'd belong to an apostate stake. ;)

But seriously, I think most stakes will ignore the direction, especially those with only one YSA branch, because they do tend to work well in getting young people out to church.

H.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:00 pm 
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zeezrom wrote:
Maybe you have seen that the church decided to roll up singles wards into larger congregations to prevent ward-shopping?



Actually, the article appears to be talking about student wards, not "single's" wards. The students will actually now be going to regular single's wards, not family wards.

Quote:
Attention single Mormons under age 30 in the Salt Lake Valley: The LDS Church is disbanding all student wards (except for students who live on a college campus), creating in their place congregations for students and singles together in 12 to 17 new all-singles stakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:06 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
zeezrom wrote:
Maybe you have seen that the church decided to roll up singles wards into larger congregations to prevent ward-shopping?



Actually, the article appears to be talking about student wards, not "single's" wards. The students will actually now be going to regular single's wards, not family wards.

Quote:
Attention single Mormons under age 30 in the Salt Lake Valley: The LDS Church is disbanding all student wards (except for students who live on a college campus), creating in their place congregations for students and singles together in 12 to 17 new all-singles stakes.


Is it married students and singles that would attend the all-singles stakes? That's the part that I don't understand.

H.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:27 pm 
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How cool would it be if the Prophet invited all the young single men and young single women to come to the conference center only to surprise them by pairing them off and doing a mass wedding/sealing like the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Okay, your married, now go out and replenish the earth/church.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Oops. Student wards.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Wisdom Seeker wrote:
How cool would it be if the Prophet invited all the young single men and young single women to come to the conference center only to surprise them by pairing them off and doing a mass wedding/sealing like the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Okay, your married, now go out and replenish the earth/church.


Okay, it would not be cool! But it would in a single moment resolve a large part of what is apparently the second largest problem with young single adults.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:36 am 
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Wisdom Seeker wrote:
Wisdom Seeker wrote:
How cool would it be if the Prophet invited all the young single men and young single women to come to the conference center only to surprise them by pairing them off and doing a mass wedding/sealing like the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Okay, your married, now go out and replenish the earth/church.


Okay, it would not be cool! But it would in a single moment resolve a large part of what is apparently the second largest problem with young single adults.


There was much weeping and wailing from many of the YSA men within my daughter's circle of influence, after Pres Monson's talk in priesthood meeting. And much digging in of heels shortly thereafter.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:42 am 
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harmony wrote:
There was much weeping and wailing from many of the YSA men within my daughter's circle of influence, after Pres Monson's talk in priesthood meeting. And much digging in of heels shortly thereafter.


I was fortunate to have met my future wife in high school, so I haven't had an extended period of post-mission singleness in my life. So I can only say this as an observer.

But it seems odd to me that unmarried adults would be a problem in the Church in this day and age. I mean, in the past, men and women had a minuscule pool of potential partners from which to choose, and yet somehow they were able to find someone. Now, with modern transportation and communication methods (and the size of the Church worldwide), the pool of potential spouses is absolutely huge.

I can only guess that an oversupply in the single LDS population stems from an unwillingness to get married on the part of the men and women, meaning that even with so many potential candidates, they choose not to marry because they are waiting for an unlikely "ideal" to come into their lives.

So the solution to the problem would have to be a shift in the culture and expectations of LDS youth and single adults. Since many of these attitudes probably stem from the culture at large (and the influences of advertising, movies, music, books and idealistic messages in Church lessons and videos), I doubt a few talks in conference are going to do much to discourage the single men from waiting for the "perfect" woman (however they define it) to come along.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:28 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
So the solution to the problem would have to be a shift in the culture and expectations of LDS youth and single adults. Since many of these attitudes probably stem from the culture at large (and the influences of advertising, movies, music, books and idealistic messages in Church lessons and videos), I doubt a few talks in conference are going to do much to discourage the single men from waiting for the "perfect" woman (however they define it) to come along.


You may be correct. I'll share some points from several discussions this past weekend (when the family gathered to bless a baby)...

1. the lack of support (for want of a better word) for the institution of marriage in the 25-35 age bracket isn't confined to those who are LDS and single. It is a generational thing that LDS YSA's that age also exhibit. It's much too easy to stay home, play video games, and watch tv than actually go to the trouble to build a relationship with a real, live person.

2. my children's generation (25-38 yrs currently) are not as willing to listen to counsel from our leaders as my generation (the Boomers) was, and thus Pres Monson's stern lecture didn't have the impact it would have had on my generation.

3. single LDS men are only half of the problem. Many many LDS women in that age group (25-35) are not or were not interested in marriage, family, husband. They wanted an education, a career, options and they weren't willing to subjucate themselves on the altar of the priesthood (as marriage is viewed by a substantial number) as the women of my generation did. Marriage doesn't look appealing to someone who has watched 50% of their parents' generation tear apart families via the divorce courts, and who has watched a goodly number of their own generation follow that same path (with accompanying devastation for single women with young children in a world where having a husband is a requirement for acceptance within the group. Relief Society in a family ward can be a vicious place, and young single women with children are not allowed in singles' wards.)

4. single LDS women who expect elaborate dates are unfortunately not an aberration... they are very nearly the norm. If a man doesn't come with plans for a nice dinner, some entertainment (concert, movies, etc), an education and a job... well, don't bother to ask; she's not going to accept. Young LDS women now expect the guy to fork over a fortune for the pleasure of their company; my generation was happy with a walk in the park and an ice cream cone.

5. mandating dating is not the answer (a young man just returned to my daughter's inner circle with tales of his experience this past year at BYU-Provo. His bishop interviewed the young women on a monthly basis; if a young woman had not been on a date that month, he reamed the Elder's Quorum out. The men in the ward were expected to have gone on 2 dates per month. This was a very strange idea to my daughter and to me. Can anyone verify this?)

6. my family generally agrees with Pres Monson's disapproval of "hanging out" and "group activities only". However, we don't think he approached the issue with an idea that will actually work. We think it would be more effective if Pres Monson had told the YSA's to widen their finding pool... and look outside LDS circles. It's as easy to baptise a spouse as it is to baptise a single adult. Knowing that the opposite sex can only look within the LDS circle makes some young LDS very complacent.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:08 am 
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I'll throw in this idea/thought.


- The women are outpacing the guys in educational achievement and career success, for the most part. Where I live this is amplified because the government preferentially hires women and visible minorities leaving most men out of the equation for stable jobs which, at the moment, are bucket loads better than almost everything in the private sector.

I see and meet more and more guys who are leeching off the women. This is not just in my LDS circle. So the women, because they seem willing and able, are saddling themselves with the roll of provider while the guys sit back. I see fewer long term relationships developing - for whatever reason - as this situation becomes more common.


- There is a lack of ability to build long term relationships. Time expectations are different now than they were years ago. We've introduced near instantaneous communication and service everywhere. Maybe this has had an impact on the ability of young people to build these relationships. Is this some unseen consequence of technology that only becomes apparent after its effect has been embeded in our psyche?


- The interconnectedness and ease to find partners also creates a paralyzing abundance of choice and indecision.


- Needs can be met anywhere and by various means. Pornography, easy hook ups, drugs and alcohol (or hanging out and having house parties for LDS) all satisfy needs. When there is a lack of motivation or sense of benefit to build a relationship, what will drive people?


The social environment and practical necessities of today are not steering people towards marriage. Marriage now is more a choice and less a necessity than before.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:38 am 
I agree that marriage is more of a choice than a necessity. However, I think that this can be viewed as a positive.

If you are choosing to get married rather than simply getting married out of necessity, then you are going into that choice with your eyes open, aware of the commitment you are engaging in more fully. In other words, you are choosing marriage for the right reasons, and that marriage is more likely to succeed, rather than end up as a divorce statistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:23 am 
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That surely is a positive on its own. But if the lack of necessity keeps people from making the choice (and it's a big choice - people avoid big impacting choices as much as possible) then how much better off is anyone?

My intuition says that marriage is far into 'choice' territory. Current necessity, as a driver to make a big choice, is not enough to entice most people to make the choice of marriage.

Assuming that is somewhat correct young people have to learn to deal with the new choice environment. Past experience, advice and guidance is based on approaching marriage as a necessity. The reality is now is the need to approach marriage as a choice, and the old methods that the general authorities, grandparents and parents are preaching don't seem to be adapting.

Can there be so much choice that people will choose to let other people make their choices? If, somehow, the abundance of choice is identified as a factor that decreases people tying the knot, could it lead to consenting arranged marriages?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:33 am 
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Quaks,
Is it possible that marriage is moving closer to being something obsolete? If so, would that be a bad thing? Over here, it is fading fast and the health and welfare of our children has never been better, and is the best in the world. What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:48 am 
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quaker wrote:
Assuming that is somewhat correct young people have to learn to deal with the new choice environment. Past experience, advice and guidance is based on approaching marriage as a necessity. The reality is now is the need to approach marriage as a choice, and the old methods that the general authorities, grandparents and parents are preaching don't seem to be adapting.


This is very true and was a big part of our discussion last weekend.

The old methods aren't working. Why isn't as important as... what is going to go in its place? The worry for local singles branch presidents is huge. They're expecting Salt Lake City to come up with something workable, but it's not shown up yet, and who knows when it will? So they do the best they can with their local circumstances.

One of the "best they can come up with " for us has taken an interesting turn. My single daughter is 33, owns her own home, has a career as a teacher, is deeply involved in the community. She doesn't attend the singles branch any longer. However, the branch members refuse to let her go; someone is at her house almost daily, and it's full to the brim every weekend evening. Since the BP knows where they all are, and knows they aren't attending the branch activities, he's offered to pay for the food they consume while at my daughter's house, to rent the movies, etc... anything to make sure his singles are in what he knows is a safe place. This is a short term solution to a long term problem, but at least on any given Saturday night, he knows most of his singles are safe.

Personally, I think they should have a ward of single 30 somethings that has single mothers and single dads and their children, the never-married women and men. This age group is not going to find a mate in the current 20something YSA wards, and the 30somethings age group of singles is likely the one that is growing rapidly.

The leaders need to address it with something more effective than "find a mate, get married".

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am 
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harmony wrote:

One of the "best they can come up with " for us has taken an interesting turn. My single daughter is 33, owns her own home, has a career as a teacher, is deeply involved in the community. She doesn't attend the singles branch any longer. However, the branch members refuse to let her go; someone is at her house almost daily, and it's full to the brim every weekend evening. Since the BP knows where they all are, and knows they aren't attending the branch activities, he's offered to pay for the food they consume while at my daughter's house, to rent the movies, etc... anything to make sure his singles are in what he knows is a safe place. This is a short term solution to a long term problem, but at least on any given Saturday night, he knows most of his singles are safe.


You have a single daughter than owns a house. hum... what are her feelings about dating apostates... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:08 am 
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Rambo wrote:
You have a single daughter than owns a house. hum... what are her feelings about dating apostates... :)


Funny you should ask, since that was also part of the discussion last week (well, not apostates, but 1) dating and 2) dating non members.)

The BP knows she leads the younger women just by being who she is and doing what she does. 10 yrs ago, it was the then-BPs greatest fear that she would lead the rest of the young women into the same life. It was a baseless fear; most of the young women still live at home with their parents and while they admire her and maybe wish they were more like her, they don't want to be her. And she has decided that now would be a good time to actually start looking for a potential mate. So during these discussions (on phone calls from BYU Hawaii at 1 am, etc), she's making the point that she's also looking to find someone. Her critieria is different from the younger women's though... they still want active priesthood holder, handsome, charming, with a car, funny... my daughter biggest criteria is: has a good job.

I'm pretty sure the BP isn't quite to the place where he'd tell her that it's okay to let the younger women know they can expand their finding pool to include nonmembers. But it may be part of the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:13 am 
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harmony wrote:

Her critieria is different from the younger women's though... they still want active priesthood holder, handsome, charming, with a car, funny... my daughter biggest criteria is: has a good job.


So you are telling me I have a chance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qULSszbA-Ek


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 Post subject: Re: Oh, the good ol' days of the single's ward...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:22 am 
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Rambo wrote:
harmony wrote:

Her critieria is different from the younger women's though... they still want active priesthood holder, handsome, charming, with a car, funny... my daughter biggest criteria is: has a good job.


So you are telling me I have a chance!


I'm making no promises. I'm just reporting the conversation from this weekend. You're on your own.

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