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 Post subject: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:08 am 
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http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/04/ ... ml?_r=1&hp

After reading the article in the newyorktimes, I had an interesting thought: Many people on this forum and on other antimormon sites would be doing handstands and having a psychological orgasm if this were happening in the lds church and to the lds church.

I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.

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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:21 am 
why me wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/04/07/world/europe/life-us-germany-religion-catholic.html?_r=1&hp

After reading the article in the newyorktimes, I had an interesting thought: Many people on this forum and on other antimormon sites would be doing handstands and having a psychological orgasm if this were happening in the lds church and to the lds church.

I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.

First of all, the fact that you think that the majority of posters here, who are parents, would be having "psychological orgasms" over an uprising in child abuse within the LDS Church shows how little you really know the posters here.

That's a pretty sick statement, Why Me. As a parent, a member of the LDS Church, and a poster on this board, I am personally offended by your statement here.


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:27 am 
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why me wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/04/07/world/europe/life-us-germany-religion-catholic.html?_r=1&hp

After reading the article in the newyorktimes, I had an interesting thought: Many people on this forum and on other antimormon sites would be doing handstands and having a psychological orgasm if this were happening in the lds church and to the lds church.

I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.


Lots of Mormons resigned over prop 8. Same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:53 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
First of all, the fact that you think that the majority of posters here, who are parents, would be having "psychological orgasms" over an uprising in child abuse within the LDS Church shows how little you really know the posters here.

That's a pretty sick statement, Why Me. As a parent, a member of the LDS Church, and a poster on this board, I am personally offended by your statement here.


You know Liz what I meant. If something bad happens to the lds church that would cause members to leave and put the lds church in crisis it would get a celebration on this board. True, people would feel sorry for the children but the more negative aspects of the lds church that would have caused the problem would be widely brought up with the most negative of terms. And yes, people would be glad for the crisis.

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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:56 am 
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Buffalo wrote:

Lots of Mormons resigned over prop 8. Same thing.


I would think that if some Mormons resigned over Prop 8, they were very liberal Mormons who were inactive. Those that are in the lds church and are active, would understand the lds church position on family issues.

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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:03 am 
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why me wrote:
Buffalo wrote:

Lots of Mormons resigned over prop 8. Same thing.


I would think that if some Mormons resigned over Prop 8, they were very liberal Mormons who were inactive. Those that are in the lds church and are active, would understand the lds church position on family issues.



Yeah. Only people who don't understand the position of the CoJCoLDS on Prop.8 could possibly disagree with that position.

That is a really subtle intellectual take on this issue. And the wonderful thing is, it works for every other issue too. Only those who don't understand disagree with the church's position on anything.

(Of course, that only works for the CoJCoLDS. People who fully understand the position of advocates of non-gendered marriage law always reject it).

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:08 am 
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why me wrote:
True, people would feel sorry for the children but the more negative aspects of the lds church that would have caused the problem would be widely brought up with the most negative of terms.


Shouldn't these negative aspects be discussed and dissected? Openly and honestly? I fail to see how not being brutally honest about such things would fix such a problem.

And I don't think there's anyway to discuss child abuse in positive terms. Do you?

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:08 am 
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"The rising number of people who left the Church in 2010 represents a lack of trust suffered by the Church because of abuse cases," Rev. Dominik Schwaderlapp, vicar general of the large Cologne archdiocese, told the magazine.

"It is very painful for us because many people obviously have chosen to leave the Church in protest and disgust over the scandal," he added.

You mean then didn't leave to sin more often.

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Last edited by karl61 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:10 am 
why me wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
First of all, the fact that you think that the majority of posters here, who are parents, would be having "psychological orgasms" over an uprising in child abuse within the LDS Church shows how little you really know the posters here.

That's a pretty sick statement, Why Me. As a parent, a member of the LDS Church, and a poster on this board, I am personally offended by your statement here.


You know Liz what I meant. If something bad happens to the lds church that would cause members to leave and put the lds church in crisis it would get a celebration on this board.


No. Some, certainly not ALL posters would be happy about a wide exodus from the Church. There would NOT be a board-wide celebration. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the current board admin consists of more members than non or ex-members.

Quote:
True, people would feel sorry for the children but the more negative aspects of the lds church that would have caused the problem would be widely brought up with the most negative of terms.

And rightly so! It would be the molestation of children we're talking about! How the hell else could a solution be established?
Quote:
And yes, people would be glad for the crisis.

I'll grant that some posters might be glad for a crisis, but I can't think of one poster here who would be glad for a crisis involving child molestation.


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:12 am 
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why me wrote:
Buffalo wrote:

Lots of Mormons resigned over prop 8. Same thing.


I would think that if some Mormons resigned over Prop 8, they were very liberal Mormons who were inactive. Those that are in the lds church and are active, would understand the lds church position on family issues.


Or Mormons who've had gay family members commit suicide because the church's teachings on homosexuality filled them with so much self-hatred and despair.

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We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:13 am 
Fionn wrote:
why me wrote:
True, people would feel sorry for the children but the more negative aspects of the lds church that would have caused the problem would be widely brought up with the most negative of terms.


Shouldn't these negative aspects be discussed and dissected? Openly and honestly? I fail to see how not being brutally honest about such things would fix such a problem.

And I don't think there's anyway to discuss child abuse in positive terms. Do you?

AMEN!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:38 am 
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why me wrote:
After reading the article in the newyorktimes, I had an interesting thought: Many people on this forum and on other antimormon sites would be doing handstands and having a psychological orgasm if this were happening in the lds church and to the lds church.


why me, my interest is in full disclosure. If the LDS Church fully disclosed to its members and investigators the historical and other facts about Mormonism's founding, I wouldn't care if then fully informed individuals swelled the ranks to twice the current number. After all, we are each big boys and girls--so long as the information is reasonably presented and available, and not hidden behind lock and key at the LDS Archives, for example.

So my day of 'psychological orgasm' will not depend on the number of members the LDS Church has, but when the facts are made known and available to all.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:04 am 
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Those that are in the lds church and are active, would understand the lds church position on family issues.

******************************

Yes, like the wife of Steve Young. Taking a stand on Prop 8 against Gordie & the gang assured she won't take the top spot as Relief Society President. (maybe that i why she did it?)

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:56 pm 
God
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why me wrote:
I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.


Not likely.

I suspect that the exodus from Catholicism in Germany and especially Ireland (go figure) is not only a reflection of the recent "sexual" disclosures involving the Catholic clergy, but a statistical increase in what was already a growing trend away from organized religion in Europe.

From your posted article:
Quote:
Official membership has been falling in German Catholic and Protestant churches for years. Figures are readily available because members pay a church tax collected by the state and must declare their departure to local tax authorities.


People in the Western world are moving away from religious affiliations.

Interesting article with a link to the study it quotes from:
http://peoplesworld.org/scientists-suggest-reason-for-religion-s-decline/

I don't think that these recent Catholic apostates will be very good recruiting targets for Mormon Missionaries. My guess is they are done with church in general.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:29 pm 
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why me wrote:
... And yes, people would be glad for the crisis.


The Church does a lot of good in the world.

God willing, let's hope no one ever leaks Church financial records to the New York Times.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:50 pm 
the very elect
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why me wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/04/07/world/europe/life-us-germany-religion-catholic.html?_r=1&hp

After reading the article in the newyorktimes, I had an interesting thought: Many people on this forum and on other antimormon sites would be doing handstands and having a psychological orgasm if this were happening in the lds church and to the lds church.

I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.

NFW.

I dunno, would it? Would it be enough to get the jack'est' jack mormon hypocritical catholic to get off his lame excuse of an ass and for the first time in his pitiful life actually embrace the religion that he defends on the boards in which he lives vicariously through???

NFW. No FACKING WAY.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:11 pm 
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why me wrote:
I wonder if this opens the door for more catholics to convert to the lds church.


I don't see that more Catholics would look to the LDS church as an option if they were angry and disgusted over the abuse issue. If anything I think they would look unfavorably on the LDS church since it is run in a similar "top down" manner. While the LDS church may have a "lay" clergy it is imposed from above not chosen from below, so I see those angry at the Catholic church looking for a church that has control by the laity. I think a particular point they may want to have control over is the choice of the pastor and the ability to remove him if necessary. Also I am convinced that anyone revolted by Catholic priests sexually abusing children is not going to like the fact that LDS bishops interview 12 year olds, behind closed doors, about things like masturbation and pornography viewing.


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:43 pm 
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cafe crema wrote:
I don't see that more Catholics would look to the LDS church as an option if they were angry and disgusted over the abuse issue. If anything I think they would look unfavorably on the LDS church since it is run in a similar "top down" manner. While the LDS church may have a "lay" clergy it is imposed from above not chosen from below, so I see those angry at the Catholic church looking for a church that has control by the laity. I think a particular point they may want to have control over is the choice of the pastor and the ability to remove him if necessary. Also I am convinced that anyone revolted by Catholic priests sexually abusing children is not going to like the fact that LDS bishops interview 12 year olds, behind closed doors, about things like masturbation and pornography viewing.


But on the other hand, catholics could still be trying to find the truth. And since the lds church claims truth, it might hold sway. I don't think that bishops discuss masturbation and pornography with 12 year olds.

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Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
NFW.

I dunno, would it? Would it be enough to get the jack'est' jack mormon hypocritical catholic to get off his lame excuse of an ass and for the first time in his pitiful life actually embrace the religion that he defends on the boards in which he lives vicariously through???

NFW. No FACKING WAY.


But I am not a hypocrite. :=)

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I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:34 pm 
the very elect
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why me wrote:
Polygamy-Porter wrote:
NFW.

I dunno, would it? Would it be enough to get the jack'est' jack mormon hypocritical catholic to get off his lame excuse of an ass and for the first time in his pitiful life actually embrace the religion that he defends on the boards in which he lives vicariously through???

NFW. No FACKING WAY.


But I am not a hypocrite. :=)

Liar.

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 Post subject: Re: The catholic church in crisis.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:43 pm 
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Having read the article in the NYT about Catholics in Germany leaving the RC church, other members of the RC church in Europe leaving or 'non attending' over the child abuse scandal. I find it quite confusing that the Pope has created a niche organisation within the RC church for those members of the Anglican or Church of England clergy who find it impossible to continue in their spiritual duties
due to the impending decision to create women bishops.

The Church of England Clergy and laity have progressed to a position where it is on the cards for women priests to be ordained as Bishops in the not too distant future, and already male clergy who could not possibly accept women as Bishops are running off to join a church with a history of child abuse.!

Surely it would be better for all churches to have priests, bishops of both genders? A motherly eye would perhaps be a stabilising influence in the LDS community too. As for Catholics joining the LDS, it is not likely that great numbers would come forward in Europe. Churches in the UK and other European nations tend to be half empty in these latter days.

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