Simon Belmont wrote:
Here is the source
Here is the quote:
Very good Simon, let's take a look at your data:
Although this account appears to be the writing of Joseph Smith, it is actually an excerpt from a journal of William Clayton.
We know this. Clayton was a scribe who wrote down what Joseph Smith said... nothing new here and it's what you'd expect.
It has been well known that the serialized "History of Joseph Smith" consists largely of items from other persons' personal journals and other sources, collected during Joseph Smith's lifetime and continued after the Saints were in Utah, then edited and pieced together to form a history of the Prophet's life "in his own words."
Yet in this case, we're talking about William Clayton's journal regarding what he wrote down when quoting Joseph Smith.
It was not uncommon in the nineteenth century for biographers to put the narrative in the first person when compiling a biographical work, even though the subject of the biography did not actually say or write all the words attributed to him; thus the narrative would represent a faithful report of what others felt would be helpful to print. The Clayton journal excerpt was one item used in this way. For example, the words "I have translated a portion" originally read "President J. has translated a portion...."
"President J."would be Joseph Smith... correct Simon?
Where the ideas written by William Clayton originated is unknown.
This is untrue. It is known, because it's what William Clayton wrote down when he quoted President J. Agree Simon?
However...speculation about the plates and their possible content was apparently quite unrestrained in Nauvoo when the plates first appeared. In any case, this altered version of the extract from William Clayton’s journal was reprinted in the Millennial Star of 15 January 1859, and, unfortunately, was finally carried over into official Church history when the "History of Joseph Smith" was edited into book form as the History of the Church in 1909.
What altered version? Altered from what? President J. vs. Joseph Smith? If you claim that William Clayton was not quoting Joseph Smith, your "evidence" doesn't even make that claim, but rather attempts to add distortion. Please clarify Simon:
1) Are you claiming it was actually William Clayton who wrote the translation down and made up the "Ham" part?
If so, what evidence supports this assertion?
2) Are you claiming that Mormon history is wrong, and Joseph Smith (or President J.) was not
the person who said the words, "I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and that he received his Kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth."
Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 5, p. 372
If you make this claim, then who said those words... according to the evidence? Oh... you have yet to reference the data I've presented multiple times, but I acknowledged yours and showed you where it basically attempts to add distortion without foundation. Agree?