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 Post subject: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:42 am 
High Goddess of Atlantis
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For years, many have suspected that the LDS church reads/monitors LDS discussion boards critical to the church.

Apologists have repeatedly denied this.

Then there came the day, a few years ago, where someone posted information acknowledging that indeed the LDS church did in fact monitor, IIRC, hundreds of sites. Of course this statement was taken down shortly after it was read, nevertheless, many of us saw it.

Still, the apologists deny that the church reads or monitors discussion boards or sites that show the LDS church in a less than wonderful light.

Now this, by Nomad....

Quote:
It has been mentioned on this board before that there is a suspicion that people from “the church” monitor anti-mormon websites. It’s true. I know it because I personally know someone involved in that business. They keep track of the venom that is spewed, on a daily basis, from places like this insane asylum. I don’t think they log everything, but I think they pay attention, and then they chronicle anything they think is noteworthy. Well, I learned from this acquaintance of mine that William Schryver is just a little famous among the anti-mormon website surfers in Salt Lake City. Far from being looked at as someone who is an embarrassment to the church, it is quite the opposite. It seems he has something approaching folk hero status among them.
(bold mine)

Wow...

I mean we all knew it but now it is confirmed! LOL!

~td~

This quote taken from the Book of Abraham thread!

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:48 am 
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I wouldn't trust what Nomad has to say, he(Most likely Will) hasn't shown a lot of reliability. That said I wouldn't doubt that the church would be interested in sites critical of the church for various reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:11 am 
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doesn't surprise me in the least. But then again, its not an uncommon practice for any corporation to do this.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:26 am 
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If I am a stake president and I read forums full of anti-mormon sentiment, for entertainment, information and general interest, does this count as the church monitoring websites? If I use what I learn here as reference for statements that I make, or if I make note of things said here to backup my statements, does that make the statement 'The Church Monitors Websites' true in the sense intended by the topic?

Or is the topic implying that the church pays people to monitor such websites?


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:33 am 
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quaker wrote:
Or is the topic implying that the church pays people to monitor such websites?


Nomad's quote metioned speaking with someone that is "in the business". Is this a job preformed in the Ivory Tower on the company nickel ... very likely


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:37 am 
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quaker wrote:
If I am a stake president and I read forums full of anti-mormon sentiment, for entertainment, information and general interest, does this count as the church monitoring websites? If I use what I learn here as reference for statements that I make, or if I make note of things said here to backup my statements, does that make the statement 'The Church Monitors Websites' true in the sense intended by the topic?

Or is the topic implying that the church pays people to monitor such websites?

I was thinking more as in an official stance. To check "the word on the street" as it where.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:18 am 
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Truth, I can say with assurance that the COB watches the MC. I watch the incoming IP blocks for who is hitting the MC. And of the 20-30k visitors per day, there is a block of IPS that the COB uses coming in.

Also, if you recall, someone - DCP or Allen Wyatt or one of DCP's cronies admitted that they monitor "hundreds" of anti-Mormon websites.

But I'm sure it is all just a bunch of clippings, really.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:28 am 
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Quote:
Apologists have repeatedly denied this.


I've never denied it.

Quote:
Well, I learned from this acquaintance of mine that William Schryver is just a little famous among the anti-mormon website surfers in Salt Lake City. Far from being looked at as someone who is an embarrassment to the church, it is quite the opposite. It seems he has something approaching folk hero status among them.


I don't hold any particular affinity for Schryver (or anyone else) though I'm sure he's a decent fellow. But there really are no famous names among LDS apologists. The MADB crowd is just a small relatively unknown group in the world of LDS apologetics. Most haven't even heard of the MI or FAIR.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:29 am 
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This blog post may interest you all:

Quote:
Conference - What the Heck Just Happened?

When I was at BYU, I had some fantastic teachers that knew the inner dealings of the church organization and leadership. I learned that the sociology department conducts studies of Mormon members, and finds things out about the population of Mormons as a whole, and then tells the leadership in the church how the membership feels about certain topics. The church leadership will often task the sociology department to conduct surveys so they can get a pulse on what the membership is feeling and doing. Infact, I participated in conducting one of those phone surveys as an assignment for my class.

One of my sociology professors told us the results of the latest study that had been conducted, and then during the next general conference, I was surprised to see that most of the talks centered around the very same topics that the sociology department had been investigating. I was also told that the church collects every single piece of information from all publications around the world that mention the church in their writing. Yes, this website is being scraped for information and collected somewhere on the servers of the church. So is your website if you write anything about the church. *Edit (I made this assertion but I cannot prove this is true).

[SNIP]

The point I am trying to make is simply this. If you are writing a blog about Mormonism, the church knows about it. They are surveying, probing, collecting data about all aspects of membership. The brethren find out what the trend is, and then they preach their opinions or doctrine (sometimes a mix of both) about what needs to be done about the trends during general conference.

She later crossed out some of those sentences I bolded (do we have a strike-through tag here? I can't find it) stating that she can't back those claims up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:35 am 
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The reason I did not draw attention to this is that it is fairly well known by now. Yes, the Church tracks thousands of websites devoted to the topic of Mormonism. They do this in accordance with a divine directive in the D&C to collect information about the Church promulgated by its enemies.

The only apologists who deny this are either ignorant of the facts (which would not be surprising) or unfortunately untrustworthy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:38 am 
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Now if only we can get the oath of vengeance back … only this time against the ultimate enemy of God … the apostate from the CoJCoLDS.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:11 pm 
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bcspace:
Quote:
The MADB crowd is just a small relatively unknown group in the world of LDS apologetics.

Hard to say what you really mean by “the MADB crowd.” There are several hundred regular posters there. I would have to agree that the vast majority of them are unknown “in the world of LDS apologetics” (whatever that is supposed to mean). On the other hand, there are regular posters at MADB who are very well known among church leadership—Scott Lloyd is obviously one of them, but there are several others. I could mention a few names that people would instantly recognize—but I will refrain from doing so, for obvious reasons.

Quote:
Most haven't even heard of the MI or FAIR.

“Most” of whom? General church membership? Yes, that is undoubtedly true. But I know for an absolutely certain fact that the work of both the Maxwell Institute and FAIR is very well known among a large contingent of people whose offices are either at 50 E. North Temple (Church Office Building) or 47 E. South Temple (Church Administration Building) or 15 E. North Temple (Church History Library). There is a large number of people in these offices who are extremely “up to date” on current events in the so-called “bloggernacle.” The video of my FAIR conference presentation has been viewed, to date, by dozens of IP addresses associated with those offices. When I submitted the video to the “powers that be” who had to review its contents (because of the numerous KEP images I used) prior to the FAIR conference, it was viewed several times within two hours of it being made available (on a secured site), and I had received enthusiastic approval for the presentation within another hour, with only one minor suggested change to the text, with which I promptly complied.

Incidentally, although the MI has expressed a strong desire to publish my articles on the KEP, I am not formally associated with them, nor am I any longer a member of FAIR (although I was for a couple years). I am a completely independent entity whose loyalties are to no specific earthly organization—my allegiance is exclusively to "The Kingdom."

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Quote:
When I submitted the video to the “powers that be” who had to review its contents (because of the numerous KEP images I used) prior to the FAIR conference, it was viewed several times within two hours of it being made available (on a secured site), and I had received enthusiastic approval for the presentation within another hour, with only one minor suggested change to the text, with which I promptly complied.


So when might we see this published in the Ensign?

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:31 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
I am a completely independent entity whose loyalties are to no specific earthly organization—my allegiance is exclusively to "The Kingdom."


I am surprised you haven't incorporated and enlisted the services of a marketing specialist.

You could be the poor man's Peter Kingsley: http://www.peterkingsley.org/


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:39 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
The video of my FAIR conference presentation has been viewed, to date, by dozens of IP addresses associated with those offices. When I submitted the video to the “powers that be” who had to review its contents (because of the numerous KEP images I used) prior to the FAIR conference, it was viewed several times within two hours of it being made available (on a secured site), and I had received enthusiastic approval for the presentation within another hour

At the risk of getting in trouble for de-railing from the op a bit, I have a quick question. William Schryver--I'm fairly new to this board but I've seen enough of your posts to see that you come here to toot your own horn. Even your signature line is, I'm assuming, a way for your to further feed your ego. I'm not be snarky, I'm very sincere in this question: Have you ever helped anyone questioning the truthfulness of Mormonism decide to stay? I guess I know what kind of a response I'll get if you take the time to delve down the "trailer park" (isn't that what you call it here) and answer. Your argument from the FAIR conference, which I will admit I haven't studied but did receive a synopsis of, didn't do anything to help my testimony. And time I spent on apologist sites when I was sincerely looking for answers made me run in the opposite direction. When you guys can't come up with an intelligent answer to a question, you resort to personal attacks. It was a very strange eye-opener for me. In my opinion, if the leaders of the LDS church want more intellects and questioners to stay, they will shut down apologetic sites. I wish you all the best in your efforts--I just wish you all would be more Christ-like.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Lucinda wrote:
Have you ever helped anyone questioning the truthfulness of Mormonism decide to stay?


Rather than personalize this question by directing it at Will, I would say it is fair to ask how successful apologetic efforts might be if they abandoned polemics, the style that most online apologists excel at, and took a more pastoral approach, which is the direction Bushman seemed to be promoting through his summer seminar a little while ago. Elder Ballard seems to agree, but there is too little movement in that direction--a surprising thing given the fact that no less than an apostle was offering apposite counsel.


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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Back to the topic... (smile),

I realize that this information is nothing new. Again, most of us know that sites critical to the church are monitored. We are familiar with the Strengthening the Church Membership Committee too! LOL!

What struck me is that Nomad so openly discussed this when my experience is that this has been denied by apologists for years.

It just made me smile!

:-)

~td~

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Quote:
In my opinion, if the leaders of the LDS church want more intellects and questioners to stay, they will shut down apologetic sites.
Now that's a sig if i ever saw one.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Their Google reader must be huge.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:41 pm 
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quaker wrote:
If I am a stake president and I read forums full of anti-mormon sentiment, for entertainment, information and general interest, does this count as the church monitoring websites?


I wouldn't view it that way.

Quote:
Or is the topic implying that the church pays people to monitor such websites?


The church probably pays people to gather all kinds of information. I would think they would be interested in these sites to see why people leave the church, why potential investigators may not join, etc. I doubt they are doing it to gather info on most people in or out of the church that don't believe many of the church's claims.

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 Post subject: Re: The Church Monitors Websites... cool!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:04 pm 
Sorry but I don't think the church on any official level spends time looking at antiMormon websites. An exception to that may be websites connected with lawsuits. Other than that, the GA's are brain dead testimony givers.

William Schryver is blowing smoke. Probably from his red bong. Anything William says should be taken with a grain of salt.

This website (MD) is the so far out of official church radar we could consider ourselves in outer darkness.

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