Droopy or Trevor?

As I accept all the teachings, commandments and principles of the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the historicity and divinity of the Book of Mormon, the authenticity of the prophetic mission and calling of Joseph Smith, and uphold as prophets, seers and revelators, the Brethren, it would seem logically contradictory to term me an apostate.

This term is normally reserved for those who have been in the Church and rejected the propositions I have mentioned above (as well as much else).

This would also include, at some level of commitment, those who uphold and support political ideologies and beliefs in contradiction to and in rebellion against the teachings of the gospel.

Oh, and as to Bill Mahr, I just confused Darth with Trevor for a moment. That happens sometimes. I was just retreading my Birkenstocks and lost track of the threads.

My apologies.

I vote both of you. Clearly you are guilty of having a Gospel hobby, as it were. If this isn't a sign of apostasy, it is at the very least a flirtation with apostasy, albeit unwitting.

Loran,

Who referred to you as apostate? I didn't see that. Got a quote?

The Church is trying to save energy, cut operating costs, and improve energy efficiency in its buildings. The Church has said or claimed nothing regarding this indicative of the slightest sympathy for or acceptance of the ideology, beliefs and assumptions of the environmental movement.

Environmentalism is little more than the new Communism, as Vaclav Klaus, and many others have noted.

It can also be understood, as I (and others) have long maintained, as a kind of militant gnostic neo-Pantheism strongly attached to other core aspects of the post sixties Left.

all as interpreted and filtered through the lens of a political ideology foreign to the manifest spirit of the New Testament. In short, your version is what you support.

Now wait for it, wait for it........



Ah now see... LOL
There is just no resisting the urge.

What a load of horse manure. Yeah, every environmentalist out there is smoking pot, reading Marx, and worshiping Gaia. You are so full of it.

As I said, I got Darth and Trevor mixed up for a few moments.

I'm all better now.

Church Handbook of Instructions, Book 1, 1998
Section 10 (church discipline)

Apostasy
As used here, apostasy refers to members who:
1. Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its
leaders.
Page 95
2. Persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after
they have been corrected by their bishops or higher authority
3. Continue to follow the teachings of apostate sects (such as those that advocate plural
marriage) after being corrected by their bishop or higher authority.
In such cases, excommunication may be necessary if repentance is not evident after
counseling and encouragement.
Priesthood leaders must take disciplinary action against apostates to protect Church members.
The Savior taught the Nephites that they should continue to minister to a transgressor, but "if he
repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people" (3
Nephi 18:31; see also Mosiah 26:36).

The official policy of the LDS Church is:


You have incessantly opposed Church policy in public by claiming that only people who agree with your political views---which you will never, ever, ever shut the f*** up about---are fit and worthy to be real Mormons.

I have pointed this out to you many, many times because you will not f*****g shut up about politics on Mormon discussion boards. Your response invariably is to assume that I agree with the liberal/leftist groups or ideologies you won't shut up about and demand that I justify how someone can be a good Mormon and agree with these philosophies.

Since I don't belong to any of those philosophies, I don't have to justify it. People who do subscribe to any of those philosophies are the ones who must justify it, but to God, not to you. My first mission companion was from Bergamo, Italy, and was an active member of the communist party. He still is, and is very active in church there. How does he justify it? It's none of my business, nor of yours.

The Church has made it clear that it doesn't take sides in politics. You are apostate by contradicting church policy and demanding that some platforms cannot be part of a church member's political beliefs. The Church says it does not oppose any political beliefs and that its members come from many political points of view.

I don't f*****g care about politics, Droopy. I only care when the government is getting involved in my life. Then my politics is getting them out of my life.

Yeah, shake it off, Droop. Clear your head. Think before you post.

So what do you think about Nibley being an environmentalist? Was this also due to his hippy philosophy? LOL. What a joke.

No, you are simply another pristine example of the kind of intellectual poseur this place attracts and makes comfortable: poorly read, half educated, and intellectually pubescent.

Go take the Constitution quiz and show us how richly read, fully educated, and intellectually adult you are.

You really should drop this particular evasion of the issue as it has run its course and its been exposed already for what it is...a debate avoidance tactic.

Not willing to back up your road apples, Droop? Nothing to say but empty insults? Well, I'm not hurt, buddy. Vent your puerile anger all you like. I still think you're basically cool. You're just angry for some reason. Let it go.

He wasn't referring to you as an apostate. He was posting a representation of "Droopy-think", not "Droopy, think...."

Projecting, Droopy? When have you ever said anything of real substance here? I mean really? I have discussed the historical Jesus in some detail with Kevin, among other things. People know I have at least a few goods because I have carried on sustained arguments backed by evidence. What have you done, big guy?

As I've said a number of time over a several year period, here and at the MADboard, I think Nibley was a gross economic illiterate, I think he was riddled with class envy, and was quite ignorant of political philosophy, history and analysis.

This changes nothing, however, regarding his contributions to the Church and his chosen fields within those chosen fields.

The mere existence of this thread supports my opinion that the church is legalistic, rigid and controlling (although a bit fuzzy on its doctrine). Would either of you like to learn about a church that doesn't fling around accusations of apostacy? No? I didn't think so. :)

Wow! LOL

What happened to you in the 60's? Did a beautiful beflowered hippy girl spurn your advances in high school and this fevered conservatism is the psychologically protective reaction?
Perhaps, you give new meaning to the notion of being a casualty of the 60's.

(I kid)

You're such a doofus, Droop. The man was from a wealthy family. And, I bet the man knew far more about the ways of the world than you'll ever hope to. You just don't like his conclusions. He was a Lefty because he believed this was more consistent with the Gospel. Whereas you, relying on authorities who tell you which political position is the "only true" one to have, simply model your opinions accordingly.

I see no great depth here. I'd like to. I want to be dazzled by your depth. But frankly your game is up. Someone with real knowledge of Con law has just called your bluff. You flunked.

Yeah, you can't pin down "official church doctrine," but at the same time the Church and TBM's both have an almost 17th century Salem fetish about "apostates," and demand rigid conformity (see the David Bednar talk in my post in the most despised church leader thread) to Mormon cultural norms.

Lucretia, this is exactly why I pour my heart out to God that He will make Droopy, BCSpace, and Will Schryver the First Presidency of Mormons on the internet. I invite you to join me in my prayers---whatever "God" or "prayer" may mean to you.