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 Post subject: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:30 pm 
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I was looking again at Elder Holland's responses to Helen Whitney when she was producing "The Mormons" documentary for PBS. In response to a question about those who have problems believing in the historicity of the Book of Mormon, he stated:

Quote:
I think you'd be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we're not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. ... We would say: "This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I'm going forward. If I can help you work toward that I'd be glad to, but I don't love you less; I don't distance you more; I don't say you're unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can't make that step or move to the beat of that drum." ... We really don't want to sound smug. We don't want to seem uncompromising and insensitive. [Ellipses in original.]

Bolding supplied.

I am wondering what Elder Holland means by his statement that one is not "unacceptable" as a "Latter-day Saint" based upon degree of "hope" or "belief." Do you think he would go so far as to allow a Priesthood Holder to exercise his Priesthood if the holder doubts that the Restoration actually occurred, but "hopes" it did? What if the Holder said, "I am pretty sure from my studies that none of that Restoration stuff actually happened, but I really hope it did and I would like to go on acting as if it did and excercising my Priesthood." Is that acceptable to him, do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Wait! Is this the same guy who said you have to crawl over or around the Book of Mormon if you think there is some explanation other than Joseph Smith translating it by the power of God?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:24 pm 
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mms wrote:
...
those who have problems believing in the historicity
...


Given the opportunity, I'd want to inquire of Elder Holland what his response
would be to those LDS members "who have problems believing in the" fact
of his professed apostleship -- or of his claim to possessing any more special
"authority" than does the least of God's creatures.

I'd also want to ask him what his response might be to those LDS members
"who have problems believing" that he has any legitimate claim to being a
special witness for Jesus Christ, or for the continuing presence of the Holy
Ghost in his life, or for having been ordained a "prophet, seer, revelator and
translator" in the Church of the Firstborn?

Of course I'd have no great interest in addressing such queries, while
standing hat-in-hand at the threshold to his apostolic office. Better that
he make himself available for such questioning in the midst of a number
of officials occupying positions of equal responsibility in other churches.

It would be interesting to hear him explain why God recognizes his
particular ordination as an elder, while at the same time rejecting those
of the Methodist, Episcopal, Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox bishops
seated beside him in this little ecclesiastical gathering.

(cue Leo McKern pic as Hindu priest Clang in the movie "Help")...

UD

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:44 pm 
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The LDS Church keeps two sets of books, one for the public and one for members. Holland's statement was from the set of books created for the public.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:50 pm 
God
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Quoting Holland:

Quote:
but I don't love you less; I don't distance you more; I don't say you're unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can't make that step or move to the beat of that drum.

maybe I am missing something here, but Holland sounds rather tolerant and accepting towards those LDS members whose faith may be lacking.

It sounds like he is saying, "hey, us leaders are the ideal example of "burning convictions", and if you aren't there yet, we love and accept you anyway."

Sounds good on paper anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:24 pm 
God

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Was this before or after the crawling remark?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:32 pm 
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He's telling members to accept those who waver, love them, and help them as you can without judging them.

I do not think this means Bishops and Stake Presidents should start baptizing, sending to the temple, or giving the priesthood to those of weak faith who do not fully accept it. However, those who do go to the temple should avoid smugness or anything of that nature.

He can say this and at the same time say the Book of Mormon is key and you can't get around it in the Church because it's true.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:16 am 
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Quote:
Do you think he would go so far as to allow a Priesthood Holder to exercise his Priesthood if the holder doubts that the Restoration actually occurred, but "hopes" it did?


Sure. The real problem is with those who have stopped trying and/or actually attack the Church publically.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:14 am 
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harmony wrote:
Was this before or after the crawling remark?



Before


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:54 am 
God

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So he's changed his mind about the worth of a questioning member.

Nice.

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(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:21 pm 
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"He's telling members to accept those who waver, love them, and help them as you can without judging them".

So this is about those who don't like Harry Reid?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:09 pm 
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zzyzx wrote:
So this is about those who don't like Harry Reid?


No, not liking him isn't the issue. You can love someone without liking them. However threatening his life is probably not what Elder Holland had in mind.

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"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland on doubters...what is he saying?
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:42 pm 
This man walks over, under, and around the name Shulem.

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