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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:30 pm 
The Dude wrote:
I've never read Atlas Shrugged and I don't plan on it. Life is too short. I wasted enough time on the Book of Mormon.


Objectivism is not a religion. It is not an anti-religion. It is simply a philosophy, sort of like Tony Robbins on steroids. Unless, I suppose you consider Platonic philosophy or Aristotelian thought religions or anti-religions. You probably do.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:31 pm 
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I lugged the book to Japan last trip and really got hooked on it … I very much enjoyed the read.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:31 pm 
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rocket wrote:
The Dude wrote:
You probably do.


If you say I do then it must be so.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Lets see - Ayn Rand and Joseph Smith both wrote fiction, both had a following, both took lovers years younger than they were.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:39 pm 
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I am just pleased to see that Shades has found a new faith tradition. And, while I don't personally ascribe to the Objectivist philosophy, I will respect Shades's decision and not deride him or his high priestiss--which is more Shades's offers in return.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:40 pm 
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I haven’t read Atlas Shrugged yet. But I can pretty-much find my own personal system of morality in the Bible. Don’t get me wrong, I’d throw away some 99% of it as myth, superstition, immorality posing as God’s commandments, and utter falsehood. But I’d save a few parts:

I’d save 1 corrinthians 13.

I’d save Philippians 4:8.

I'd leave other verses I’d save as well. In general, I would selectively choose the parts that describe Benjamin Franklin’s system of morality, but perhaps with slight adjustments to remove the peripheral references to Deism.

Having said that, if I had to choose one book from which I’d read over-and-over-and-over-and-over again for the rest of my life in the way I used to read the Book of Mormon, I’d choose just about anything other than the Standard Works. Atlas Shrugged? Sure. Moby Dick? Why not. The Book of Mormon? Just shoot me.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:51 pm 
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I love the Book of Mormon.

Just for the record.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:52 pm 
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rocket wrote:

Quote:
Let's start a thread about Genghis Khan, or Hitler or Mussolini and see if we get the likes of you chiming in with "Sounds like Joseph Smith." Somehow, I doubt the two lacked even a clue as to Rand (before today), much less Genghis Khan, Hitler or Mussolini. Oh, wait, there's always Wiki.


I am sure you are wrong, but go ahead and start a thread and compare Ayn Rand to Mussolini or Hitler, for that matter. Try it.

That would be cute. And fun fodder for next week's session with my therapist.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:58 pm 
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The Dude wrote:

Quote:
I've never read Atlas Shrugged and I don't plan on it. Life is too short. I wasted enough time on the Book of Mormon.


Exactly. How Dan couldn't have figure that out, even at 17. Mind boggling, to me anyway.

I saw DCPs reply to Shades as a subtle smack down, in typical DCP fashion. But, hell, some of us never bought into the Rand cult.

Again, rocket, you are dead wrong. But, go ahead and start the thread. You are a fool to think I might compare Joseph Smith to Hitler or Mussolini. You are such a dipwad, really.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:02 pm 
The Dude wrote:
If you say I do then it must be so.


Indeed I do, and it is so.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:03 pm 
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The writing is incredibly stilted. The philosophy expresed therein is naïve and morally repugnant.

As for what's philosophically wrong with Rand, I like this essay:

http://web.archive.org/web/200101110316 ... /rand.html

It's written by a sympathetic libertarian, so it'll let you down easy.

As for how this compares to the LDS canon, that's not an easy question. The LDS canon is a collection of dozens of books written by even more authors from varying historical periods with different perspectives and arguments. The writing style varies and is filtered through the writing talent of gifted translators. There's no one to one comparison here.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:04 pm 
gramps wrote:
Again, rocket, you are dead wrong. But, go ahead and start the thread. You are a fool to think I might compare Joseph Smith to Hitler or Mussolini. You are such a dipwad, really.


Articulate rejoinder.

I was a fool to think that you would compare Ann Rand objectivism to the teachings of Joseph Smith, but you proved me wrong there. Hang in there with your friend, Joe Wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Daniel Peterson wrote:
I love the Book of Mormon.

Just for the record.


Wow! Fascinating! I wonder what my therapist will think about this revelation. It is so fun to watch the MADness here (from afár, of course, and unaffected, of course). From my vantage point, high up in the clouds, above the range animals and all.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:16 pm 
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gramps wrote:
rocket wrote:

Quote:
Let's start a thread about Genghis Khan, or Hitler or Mussolini and see if we get the likes of you chiming in with "Sounds like Joseph Smith." Somehow, I doubt the two lacked even a clue as to Rand (before today), much less Genghis Khan, Hitler or Mussolini. Oh, wait, there's always Wiki.


I am sure you are wrong, but go ahead and start a thread and compare Ayn Rand to Mussolini or Hitler, for that matter. Try it.

That would be cute. And fun fodder for next week's session with my therapist.


Yea - I never saw the comparison of Joseph Smith and Hitler either.

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Last edited by karl61 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:16 pm 
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gramps wrote:
I wonder what my therapist will think about this revelation.

I don't much care, actually. But feel free to share it with me, or to have your therapist write to me directly.

I"m deeply, deeply impressed with psychotherapy. Oh yes, indeed.

gramps wrote:
It is so fun to watch the MADness here (from afár, of course, and unaffected, of course). From my vantage point, high up in the clouds, above the range animals and all.

Are you being treated for delusions of grandeur?

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:33 pm 
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DCP wrote:

Quote:
Are you being treated for delusions of grandeur?


Funny stuff. Isn't that the very kind of stuff you actually publish, after having written it yourself, of course?

Delusions of grandeur? Why don't you link everyone to that stuff you have written. Super high class stuff, DCP. After reading that nonsense, who wouldn't think that you are really just projecting? Which was it? Range animals on the African plains? or was it farm animals? Hardly matters, does it?

Delusions of grandeur? I have a few beers and you believe in a guy translating the Book of Mormon from a hat, through a magic stone. There is some perspective for ya!

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Gramps, is there any substance to you? I'm trying to figure out why you think -- as you've intimated several times over the past few hours -- that you're on some Olympian height from which you can condescend to look down on us Mormons, but your posts aren't helping me much. They're snotty, yes, but they don't seem to reflect any particular depth or insight.

I'll admit that I haven't paid much attention to you in the past, but, now that I'm watching, I'm not seeing much.

I'm quite serious about that.

Anyhow, it's very nearly two in the morning in Bavaria, and you plainly need some rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:18 pm 
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It would be interesting to know age groups of readers ... baby boomers ... being more of a work-a-holic generation (high work ethic) would likely be more inclined to relate with the book. But then again baby boomer phd's might not fit the mold ... stereotypically academia/hard work ethic don't seem to mix.


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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Daniel Peterson wrote:
Gramps, is there any substance to you? I'm trying to figure out why you think -- as you've intimated several times over the past few hours -- that you're on some Olympian height from which you can condescend to look down on us Mormons, but your posts aren't helping me much. They're snotty, yes, but they don't seem to reflect any particular depth or insight.

I'll admit that I haven't paid much attention to you in the past, but, now that I'm watching, I'm not seeing much.

I'm quite serious about that.

Anyhow, it's very nearly two in the morning in Bavaria, and you plainly need some rest.


Oh, that is rich, DCP. I am doing just what you do. I'm quite serious about that.

Well, I'm not much into Mormon stuff much anymore, except to watch the MADness. But I would be happy to talk with you about legal formalism, interpretivism. The debate between Breyer and Scalia. Things like that. This is hardly a board to do such things.

But, if you are saying your range animals essays are substance, well, ...., but then you are the editor and the publisher, so I guess you can call it anything you wish. Whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:23 pm 
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rcrocket wrote:
The philosophy is repelling; an arch-libertarian and hedonistic view of the world where everything goes as long as it meets one's object. I mean -- everything; destroying others' lives, cheating and adultery -- it goes.

If that's actually the case, then she changed her mind by the time Atlas Shrugged saw print. She saw every transaction as a trade of value-for-value among equals. The last half of the oath that the strikers took was, ". . . nor ask that any other man live for the sake of mine." In other words, they pledged not to subjugate another for the sake of the self. Have you even read Atlas Shrugged?

But anyway, back to the point. Several people here have called her ideology "repugnant," "naïve," etc. Talk is cheap; so to all the naysayers I ask the following question:

What specific portion of her philosophy do you believe is untrue, and what are your specific reasons for concluding as much?

(In addition, if you haven't actually read the book, please kindly admit it. Thank you.)

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 Post subject: Re: Atlas Shrugged vs. the Standard Works
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
(In addition, if you haven't actually read the book, please kindly admit it. Thank you.)


I haven't read the book, but I laughed at this comment from Rock:
Quote:
stereotypically academia/hard work ethic don't seem to mix.
:lol:

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