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 Post subject: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:44 pm 
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I think it is foolish for Apologetic Mormons to leave this board unchallenged. Always packing up shop and going home does not furnish an argument against critics. It seems instead like a capitulation and capitulation is very unapologetic.

If Apologists who are knowledgeable and good at arguing in support of the Church, shirk the task of being where the critics are, then who will? Who will be diligent in holding to the iron rod of defense?

.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:11 am 
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I will.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:03 am 
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moksha wrote:
I think it is foolish for Apologetic Mormons to leave this board unchallenged. Always packing up shop and going home does not furnish an argument against critics. It seems instead like a capitulation and capitulation is very unapologetic.

If Apologists who are knowledgeable and good at arguing in support of the Church, shirk the task of being where the critics are, then who will? Who will be diligent in holding to the iron rod of defense?

.

I think that the board has taken a hit from the lawsuit threat and the mormon gulag allegations. The hit may be short term and things could get back to normal soon, but it seems that the board has suffered during the last week or so. I am not sure what the apologists think about it all but I would assume that they also have a bad taste in their mouths.

The question is: Should apologists even bother with this board since almost everyone (critic oriented) has made up their mind anyway about the lds church?

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:57 am 
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why me wrote:
The question is: Should apologists even bother with this board since almost everyone (critic oriented) has made up their mind anyway about the lds church?

I have always assumed that the efforts were being made for the benefit of those lurking readers who may have questions and doubts. There isn't much chance of changing any critic's mind, just as there is no chance that an apologist will budge on the idea that the church is true no matter what, and that they simply need to come up with any remotely plausible explanation for any problems that arise.

I hope all the believers don't abandon this arena. Otherwise it will just become RFM with a better-looking interface and fewer participants. That will be much less interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:29 am 
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why me wrote:

The question is: Should apologists even bother with this board since almost everyone (critic oriented) has made up their mind anyway about the lds church?

You make a mistake about who the audience is. When I post, it is not for my opponent, who will almost assuredly be unpersuaded, it is that silent audience out there. It is just like staged political debates, they are not held to persuade the opponents or even the home team, it is aimed squarely at the undecided.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:06 pm 
why me wrote:
The question is: Should apologists even bother with this board since almost everyone (critic oriented) has made up their mind anyway about the lds church?


Does this mean that apologists only post to try to convert/re-convert?


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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Ray A wrote:
why me wrote:
The question is: Should apologists even bother with this board since almost everyone (critic oriented) has made up their mind anyway about the lds church?


Does this mean that apologists only post to try to convert/re-convert?


What other reason could there be? Entertainment? Enjoyment? To actually learn something? To be part of an online community? To be helpful? To give a more balanced perspective to the board?

None of those reasons apply, at least to certain apologist-type posters here. We've been told often enough by several of them that this is a despicable community, full of degenerates and worse, only to be despised and ridiculed. We're told this so often by so many apologist-types, it's impossible to ignore it.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:19 pm 
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harmony wrote:
We've been told often enough by several of them that this is a despicable community, full of degenerates and worse, only to be despised and ridiculed. We're told this so often by so many apologist-types, it's impossible to ignore it.

I always translate that to mean, "I can't win, so I give up and I'm leaving, but not before I try to hurt you the way you've hurt me."

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:24 pm 
I don't even know who has left. Is there a roll call somewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm 
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John Larsen wrote:
... it is aimed squarely at the undecided.


And the undecided will look to a forum named "Mormon Discussions". Only the initiated or maybe a scholastic nerd would look toward a forum with Apologetics in its title.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:05 pm 
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it is cool to see apologist resurrected themsleves. frequently DCP has said that's it and then within a few days he flys back in on his broom and starts spraying on the wall again :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:20 pm 
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krose wrote:
I have always assumed that the efforts were being made for the benefit of those lurking readers who may have questions and doubts. There isn't much chance of changing any critic's mind, just as there is no chance that an apologist will budge on the idea that the church is true no matter what, and that they simply need to come up with any remotely plausible explanation for any problems that arise.

I hope all the believers don't abandon this arena. Otherwise it will just become RFM with a better-looking interface and fewer participants. That will be much less interesting.


You have a point. Like I said on a different thread, this board has a south park family feeling to it. There is a family but highly disfunctional. Does a pro-mormon poster want to belong to a disfunctional family for the sake of lurkers?

It is an open question. I think that some do and others don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:22 pm 
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karl61 wrote:
it is cool to see apologist resurrected themsleves. frequently DCP has said that's it and then within a few days he flys back in on his broom and starts spraying on the wall again :biggrin:


I'm the resident witch here, so if Daniel's got my broom, he has some serious 'splainin' to do.

And all males mark their territory in one way or another.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:24 pm 
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John Larsen wrote:
You make a mistake about who the audience is. When I post, it is not for my opponent, who will almost assuredly be unpersuaded, it is that silent audience out there. It is just like staged political debates, they are not held to persuade the opponents or even the home team, it is aimed squarely at the undecided.

I can understand this because I do the same thing on the MAD board and the catholic board I have posted on. And most likely it is the reason that Jeff runs a tight ship by not allowing prolds posters on his board.

But I am not sure what effect this board would have on the lurker who is questioning the lds church or for someone with questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:59 pm 
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why me wrote:

But I am not sure what effect this board would have on the lurker who is questioning the lds church or for someone with questions.


I would see them keying into Mercury, Runtu and Ray's posts. With few Apologists to offer a different perspective, these posters can be persuasive.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:16 am 
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why me wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
You make a mistake about who the audience is. When I post, it is not for my opponent, who will almost assuredly be unpersuaded, it is that silent audience out there. It is just like staged political debates, they are not held to persuade the opponents or even the home team, it is aimed squarely at the undecided.

I can understand this because I do the same thing on the MAD board and the catholic board I have posted on. And most likely it is the reason that Jeff runs a tight ship by not allowing prolds posters on his board.

But I am not sure what effect this board would have on the lurker who is questioning the lds church or for someone with questions.

This board is generally built upon large amounts of inside information and assumed arguments. It is like a graduate course in Mormon discussions. If you don't know most of the major talking points of both sides and a good deal about the history of Mormon apologetics and the online shenanigans of the last 10 years, you will often be lost.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:19 am 
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[quote="why me"]
I think that the board has taken a hit from the lawsuit threat and the mormon gulag allegations. quote]

:question: Sorry to go off topic but what lawsuit threat? What have I missed?

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:07 am 
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why me wrote:
Does a pro-mormon poster want to belong to a disfunctional family for the sake of lurkers?


Either they are getting enough of their own dysfunctional families or they are not.


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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:41 am 
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moksha wrote:
I think it is foolish for Apologetic Mormons to leave this board unchallenged. Always packing up shop and going home does not furnish an argument against critics. It seems instead like a capitulation and capitulation is very unapologetic.
If Apologists who are knowledgeable and good at arguing in support of the Church, shirk the task of being where the critics are, then who will? Who will be diligent in holding to the iron rod of defense?


You gotta be kidding?
What are the Apologists supposed to defend?
Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Polygamy, First Vision, Temple Ceremony, Mormon Doctrine?
Get real. I was wondering all along why DCP hung around so long while taking so much abuse.
If I were an Apologist, I wouldn't touch this board with ten foot pole.
Only Droopy, Nehor kind of clowns can survive here.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Quote:
I think it is foolish for Apologetic Mormons to leave this board unchallenged. Always packing up shop and going home does not furnish an argument against critics. It seems instead like a capitulation and capitulation is very unapologetic.

If Apologists who are knowledgeable and good at arguing in support of the Church, shirk the task of being where the critics are, then who will? Who will be diligent in holding to the iron rod of defense?


Do you know what argument is, Moksha, in a philosophical sense? Very little of that ever has, or ever will, occur here, and that's because of the nature of the board itself as a function of the types of critics who have come to overwhelmingly populate it.

This is just RFM with a different interface.

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 Post subject: Re: Foolish for Apologists to leave this board unchallenged
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:22 pm 
Droopy wrote:
Do you know what argument is, Moksha, in a philosophical sense? Very little of that ever has, or ever will, occur here, and that's because of the nature of the board itself as a function of the types of critics who have come to overwhelmingly populate it.

This is just RFM with a different interface.


What then is your obvious attraction to this board?


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