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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:50 am 
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Didja now? I must have missed it. Maybe your original post was a "test" and all in fun.

Continue on with your comments about somebody else's sexual misbehavior.


Not only did I apologize on the very thread you linked, but reminded you of that apology quite recently. You have serious memory deficiencies.

From page 3 of the thread bob linked:

Quote:
by the way, I do regret making the comment about bob's wife thinking about England. That was said in a moment of anger. I apologize to bob for that, but not for the rest of my observations about the "Ms. Scratch" incident.


Like I said, if this is the best you can do to try and construct an argument that I'm just as vulgar as Will, you're out of luck.

As for "outing personal information", unless you're arguing that I revealed personal information that your wife laid back and thought of England, you can only be referring to the number of children. That information had already been posted on the board, and not by me.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:57 am 
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Just to save beastlie some time, I did her research for her.

Here is the documentary history, sparse as it is, of my references to Kimberly Ann and the black dress she wore to the 2006 Exmormon Foundation conference in Salt Lake City:

KA made the first reference:

Quote:
I was there, also. In a rather infamous black dress...

viewtopic.php?p=68202#p68202


Some days later I made an oblique reference to the same black dress:

Quote:
Per Kimberly Ann’s request, and because my heart is still twitterpated at the recollection of her in [a] slinky black dress, I am posting my reply from the other thread …

viewtopic.php?p=68540#p68540


Followed a few days later by the last reference I could find in the archives:

Quote:
I’m perfect in my imperfection. You’re perfect in your black dress.

viewtopic.php?p=70496#p70496


There you have it folks. The history of my fixation with Kimberly Ann, her “infamous” black dress, and presumably her formerly “DD” breasts.

Incidentally, the female breast is, in my estimation, one of the artistic masterpieces of God’s creation. I find it distressing that so many people are inclined to shame, angst, and horror at the thought of it.

Unlike so many sexually-liberated “moderns,” the ancients were not nearly as troubled by such things, as my current avatar attests.

Farewell …
.
.
.
Edit: I might note that, if KA did not desire her breasts to be "ogled" on the evening in question, she might have selected from her wardrobe an item of clothing that more effectively covered the body parts in question. The black dress she chose could not have covered more than 40% of the breastage she brought to the occasion. Her attire would have been more appropriate for an AVN expo in Las Vegas.

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Last edited by William Schryver on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:59 am 
Oh, now I feel better, especially that you keep repeating it.

Why do you think you are qualified to get into this mix, based upon your past?


Last edited by rcrocket on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:02 pm 
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beastlie, you are a lying, deceitful ____ of a woman.

I defy anyone to locate anything I have ever written on this board or elsewhere that could be reasonably seen as fitting the description you give above.

I have long understood that you people are not beneath making these sorts of "over-the-top" charges. The things Scratch and others have written about DCP over the years are ample proof of that. And I also understand that you don't find it necessary to document allegations that you make, no matter how outrageous. It is your sole intent to throw out this kind of stuff and then permit it to take on a life of its own. But there is a distinct difference between my carefully-worded "flirtations" and the type of things you insinuate above. So, search away, and let's see what you can turn up. If you fail, then it will be evident to everyone -- at least the honest ones -- that you are little more than a rank propagandist.

And, for the record, I find it difficult to believe that "men" have ever found you attractive, at least not without the aid of excess testosterone, several shots of tequila and extremely dim lighting. You are simply too ugly in soul for it to not show through. It gives me the willies just thinking about what you must really look like ...


So, in your opinion, repeatedly making comments about women’s anatomies and physical attributes do not match that description?

Let’s just look at one thread in particular:

Here’s a sampling of how you behave toward women on this site, starting with the thread that featured the tank-top. The topic was “Lamanite Only A Political Designation?” In the midst of this serious conversation, Will made this post, which triggered the others:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5519&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=varicose+veins&start=63

will
Quote:
I've watched you grow dumber over the course of the past two years.

I hope, at least, that you're happier now. What with your wife wearing her tanktop and panties to bed and everything.

My wife just wears the tanktop -- at least for 45 minutes or so. She likes to sleep in her soft flannel jammies.


Liz protested:
Quote:
And this has to do with WK's argument, how?

Quit being such an ass.


Will’s response:
Quote:
Go away, Lizzie. This conversation is over your pretty little head. You want to moderate my comments, go right ahead. Put some bite in your bitchiness.


Kimberly Ann protested:
Quote:
What an unwarranted display of hubris! Will Schryver, I doubt anything you could come up with is over Liz's head, and I can assure you it wouldn't be over mine.

I'm going on a fifteen year old memory, but I believe you're still off by sixty or so years with Charlemagne. He may be called by some the "Father of Europe", but his progeny numbered around twenty, if I remember correctly (and I usually do), so I doubt that should be taken literally.

Also, thank you for exemplifying the sexist attributes of Mormon Priesthood holders. I enjoy pointing out the sexism inherent in Mormonism, and your above post does nothing but prove me right.


Will’s added more to his comments to liz
Quote:
By the way, I know you’re sticking around simply because I told you the conversation was over “your pretty little head.”

In retrospect, I have no idea if you even have a “pretty little head.” You see, I am as handsome as my avatar suggests, but I have serious doubts that you are as good looking as your avatar would lead us believe. I’ll bet you’re a wrinkled middle-aged woman with varicose veins and more good years behind you than ahead of you. Right? ;-)


Will’s response:
Quote:
I'm quite well known for my "unwarranted display of hubris."

But it's nothing my 15-year-old daughter's sharp tongue can't rip to shreds.

Charlemagne (Charles I) lived in the second half of the 8th century A.D. And I think you're right that he had about 20 children. And I'll bet we're distant cousins because we both descend from him and several of his posterity. He's back about 50 generations for me. I can go back another 25 or so from him to a Roman ruler of Gaul who died in 6 A.D.

Oh, and by the way, my "sexist attributes" are not the exclusive province of the "Mormon Priesthood holder." I'm just a normal man. Well, probably a whole lot more manly than many of the "men" I see posting on this board. Most of them have been so utterly emasculated by our oppressive modern feminazi culture that they are only a couple of testosterone molecules shy of being eunuchs.

Now get your fat ass back in the kitchen and whip up a batch of cookies before I slap you silly.

<grin>

I like you KA. I'll bet you'd look good in a tanktop, too. ;-)



Beastie’s snarky comment in return:
Quote:
I'm sure being a Drama Queen results in the exaggerated need to prove one's maleness, too, as in referring to how females would look in tank tops.



For another example, look at your response to me – you focused on my physical characteristics, emphasizing that no man could possibly be attracted to me. (by the way, there are enough posters here who have seen pictures of me to render your comment silly)

You have a habit, and perhaps people in real life are too polite to point it out to you, or perhaps you don’t do it in real life, but you certainly do it on this board. You have a habit of sexualizing your comments to women, in responding to them in a way that objectifies them, in the proper sense of the word, not the over-used sense of the word. When you disagree with what a female poster says, you often insert some derogatory comment about her physical appearance. When you have reason to believe you would find a female poster physically attractive, you insert some flirtatious, sometimes suggestive comment while dismissing her comments. This all adds up to someone who cyber ogles women, sizing them up like pieces of meat in the market.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:03 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
beastlie, you are a lying, deceitful ____ of a woman.

LOL... someone's button was pushed.

beastie, to answer your question, my wife and I have a bit of a running joke about flirting with others, but it's not something we'd ever do for real. You're right; it is a simple matter of respect. That WS doesn't recognize this is hardly surprising. He's either full of s***, a total moron or a complete jerk with his wife. Likely all of the above.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Oh ho ho hooooo... The anger sharks are finally surfacing from Will's head. He, a Mormon temple recommend holding member just called another woman a ____, in anger, after just getting done admitting he ogled KA's body.

Creepy-ass Mormon men and their paper thin piety. Never ends.

Behold, the fruits of Mormonism! Isn't wonderful? Isn't it marvelous?

edit:

My live-in gf would NOT be down with me openly flirting with other women, and in fact, has told me to knock it off when I get too base. The latter happens about once a day.

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Last edited by antishock8 on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Oh, now I feel better, especially that you keep repeating the insult and references to my family.

Carry on, tearing into Will about his sexual misbehavior.


You've really lost it. You were the one who repeated the insult and references to your family. Obviously it didn't really bother you, particularly given how many times you've brought it up to me. You clearly enjoy it, because you think it gives you some sort of bat to use against me. As I said, if that's the biggest bat you can find, I must be a saint.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:08 pm 
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rcrocket wrote:
beastie wrote:
Hey, bob, it's a miracle you have seven kids. I guess that means your wife laid back and thought of England seven times. God knows I'd never let a misogynist touch me.
beastie wrote:
No, I did not out details of your personal life.

Hmm. The two quotes don't quite add up, do they?

Oh, you mean she was right when she said your wife laid back and thought of England seven times and that you're really a misogynist?

Hmmm... I understand why you wouldn't like people knowing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:16 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:

Beastlie (an unmarried woman living with a man) and Ray A (an adulterer and long-time “lone wolf” predatory male) lecturing on marital fidelity and the meaning of chastity to a man who has “known” but one woman, who in turn has “known” but one man, and who have been blissfully joined in matrimony for almost three decades.

Folks, it simply does not get any richer than this.



Oh, but it does get richer. You follow a man who married the wives of other men and practiced polygamy in secret while publicly denouncing it.

Inasmuch as this Church of Christ[sic] has been reproached with the crime of fornication...

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:17 pm 
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beastlie:

Quote:
For another example, look at your response to me – you focused on my physical characteristics …

No it didn’t, you deceitful shrew, it talked about your “ugly soul” that would “come through” and render you unattractive. You’re a liar and a propagandist.

Quote:
… sizing them up like pieces of meat in the market.

If so, I’d liken you to a ham hock.
.
.
.
antibrain:

Quote:
My live-in gf would NOT be down with me openly flirting with other women, and in fact, has told me to knock it off when I get too base. The latter happens about once a day.

And if you go to hell, it won’t be for that.

In the words of one wise woman: “I don’t care if you look at the menu, just make sure you come home for dinner.”

But, alas, for beastlie and her Freudian potpourri of issues, any such thoughts are base and dirty and loathsome. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Beastlie? Deceitful shrew?

Can this give us any better demonstration of what Mormonism does to a man? THESE, right here, are the fruits of Mormonism. William Schryver is giving us a real-time demonstration that Mormonism makes men into domineering pigs. There's no peace. There's no humility. There's no kindness. There's only hate, revenge, and anger.

Sounds like the traits of Lucifer's church.

That being said, Joseph Smith had sex with other mens' wives, underaged girls, and was a polygamist. What other kinds of behavior would we or could we expect from his church's adherents?

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:34 pm 
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asbestosman wrote:
Nightingale wrote:
But yeah. On this and other issues, the point is not for a supposedly religious man to be the same as others (as they often claim as an excuse) but to be better than. That is the message, right?

No.
Quote:
I don't see what the problem is with having expectations of people who are preaching to you that they will try to be at least as civil as other people outside their group.

Yes.


OK, I didn't phrase that well, at all. I should have said not that religious people are better than (duh) but that there is a certain standard of behaviour that we claim to follow. There is also the concept of having the light of Christ (Mormons) or the power of the Lord (non-LDS believers) to help overcome at least our more egregious shortcomings.

Obviously, nobody expects any human to be perfect (contrary to what some claim that ex-members do) but I don't think it's out of line to expect people to practice what they literally preach.

I think it's perfectly understandable to be surprised or even shocked that a religious person who comes to this forum to castigate non-believers would be rude and offensive, such as Will S calling beastie a "____". Maybe I'm lame for being shocked that apparently some LDS feel they don't need to adhere to standards in certain situations and locations but I am as it's not what I would expect nor what I experience with Christians I know.

I know that the use of what is considered foul language is commonplace these days but even so, it is not what I would expect from someone claiming to have higher standards than the rest of the crowd. I have interacted with atheist males on several boards and even though we may have agreed on precisely nothing they have been largely unfailingly courteous to me. They certainly do not hurl the B word around or worse merely for a difference of opinion. One exception is a non-Christian male on this board who called me a ____ for reasons unclear to me. As I said when that occurred, in my line of work and volunteer activities, a man calling a woman a ____ is considered to be abusive. Maybe that seems OTT to many people but that's how it is for me. I do think that it definitely changes the dynamics of an exchange on the board, though, and makes it personal and unpleasant and certainly doesn't help to advance the conversation. I think it is nasty, low and completely unnecessary and, yes, most often abusive.

So, seeing an LDS man stoop to that is at least surprising to me, if not shocking any more, as the more I read these interactions the more accustomed I get, unfortunately, to such exchanges.

There are also those little principles of working on being modest and self-examining and finding beams in one's own eyes and being non-judgemental that should keep us busy not thinking we're better than anyone else at all, which definitely and demonstrably some, if not all of us, are absolutely not.

My apologies for my dumb comment that does not reflect what I meant to say.

Thanks for pointing that out ABM.


Last edited by Nightingale on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:41 pm 
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I would simply say that any man who either claims to strive for high standards or is a member of an organization that strives for high standards should at least be making an effort to adhere to those standards instead of merely excusing himself on the basis of human imperfection. Human imperfection is important to consider, but you should at least show a bit of regret for it if not outright contrition.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:58 pm 
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asbestosman wrote:
Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.


HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:03 pm 
Will did apologize to me privately for his comments, and we are actually Internet friends of sorts. We have exchanged vocal recordings via email, and have "talked shop" since we both have a common interest in Musical Theater.

I know I'm blowing Will's cover here, but, he is actually quite a nice person when speaking with him in private.

It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Will, if you're still reading, I would love your opinion on my eternal progression thread in the Celestial Forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:36 pm 
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asbestosman:
Quote:
I would simply say that any man who either claims to strive for high standards or is a member of an organization that strives for high standards should at least be making an effort to adhere to those standards instead of merely excusing himself on the basis of human imperfection. Human imperfection is important to consider, but you should at least show a bit of regret for it if not outright contrition.

I feel neither regret nor contrition for anything I have ever written on this message board. I am willing to have it all read as I stand and listen at the day of judgment. I’m sure it will garner a few good laughs, without a doubt.

Quote:
Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.

Quite to the contrary, it is your flavor of ambivalence that is not your typical Mormon fruit. Hence your long-standing level of comfort here in The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™. You operate on the fringes of heterodoxy. I would venture to say that you have never been entrusted with a leadership position on account of the fact that the Spirit would never indicate such a choice to the those making the decision, and because you do not engender confidence in those around you.

I think what we are really seeing here is the disconnect between the actual doctrine of the restored gospel and the heresies of sectarian Christianity that are constantly seeking to make inroads into the Church, and whose virtual proponents on this message board are people that fancy themselves LDS, but whose beliefs veer sharply from those introduced and advocated by Joseph Smith.

The actual doctrine of the restoration is very materialistic, in the literal sense of that word. It emphasizes the importance of the acquisition of a body of flesh and bone, and of learning how to simultaneously enjoy and govern the passions that come with that body, as well as mastering the material world in which we have been placed; “subduing it” as it were; using its constituent materials to produce our own “creations.”

It glorifies the powers of procreation, and by extension, sexuality.

It emphasizes the formation of an actual, material, earthly kingdom.

It emphasizes the ultimate “celestial” glorification and eternalization of all those things: body, procreation, sexuality, and kingdom.

All of these things are almost anathema to the mindset of sectarian Christianity, whereas their opposite ideas in Christianity are the very epitome of the kind of twisted aesthetic and asceticism that corrupted the early church and resulted in the great apostasy.

I will even consent that the modern church has gone through periods when these sectarian Chrisitan influences have held inordinate sway over doctrinal interpretation and exposition. Fortunately, those kinds of ideas are undergoing a rapidly diminishing influence in recent years, such that – notwithstanding the proper emphasis of righteousness and virtue in all things -- there is an increasingly evident undertone and acknowledgment of the essential materialistic aspects of the restored gospel. I believe we will see a steady increase in that emphasis as the “division of the people” continues and the second coming draws nigh.

We can afford to lose the kinds of “Saints” that find greater congeniality with the false and incomplete doctrines of sectarian Christianity. In fact, if they are not drawn in by the centripetal force of the continued “gathering of Zion,” then they will necessarily succumb to the centrifugal force of its ever-increasing mass and the compression of time as this dispensation draws to its close.

Of course, everything I have just said in response to asbestosman’s aspersions really amounts, in the context of this place, to nothing more than casting one’s pearls before swine. Even so, I am confident that there are some unseen followers of this discussion who will profit therefrom, and so I will leave it as I have written it.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:40 pm 
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liz3564 wrote:
It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Maybe it's Will's version of Wade's textual mirror. Maybe in getting people to condemn him he thinks they're actually condemning their own behavior as he tries to reflect it. Maybe not.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:48 pm 
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asbestosman wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Maybe it's Will's version of Wade's textual mirror. Maybe in getting people to condemn him he thinks they're actually condemning their own behavior as he tries to reflect it. Maybe not.

Maybe not.

Maybe, in fact, the problem is a profound difference of opinion in what actually constitutes "callous, crass behavior."

I can assure you that there are a considerable number of what would be considered completely orthodox LDS who look in on these heated discussions I engender with you folks, and who do not perceive the degree of "callous, crass behavior" that many of you claim is there. Of course, they're not nearly as humor- and irony-challenged as are the majority of exmormons and the ambivalent nominal Mormon hangers on that associate with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:52 pm 
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William Schryver wrote:
I feel neither regret nor contrition for anything I have ever written on this message board. I am willing to have it all read as I stand and listen at the day of judgment. I’m sure it will garner a few good laughs, without a doubt.


How about in Sacrament Meeting in front of everyone? Or how about in Young Womens?

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Will wins. Real Mormons are not comfortable hanging out here.

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