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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:22 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
Ray:
Quote:
I was "warned" in 1985.

And look what you’ve become in the meantime!


Having spent so much time with me, you obviously know. I have a very happy and fulfilled off-board life. And I am thankful my children didn’t have to go through what I did.


William Schryver wrote:
Ray, you’re life has become a freaking disaster in the quarter century since you first violated your covenant with God. Look around you, my would-be nemesis! Do you like what you see?


Really? LOL! I love what I see – freedom from mental slavery.

William Schryver wrote:
Where is the committed love of an eternal companion with whom you might have relished life all this time, and whom you might have had beside you forever?


Asking me to mow the Celestial Lawn? No thanks.

William Schryver wrote:
What do you “enjoy” in its place?


My children, my job, the people I meet, beer, and the freedom to come and go as I please. In other words, just being normal, and not worrying and fretting about whether I'll have a thousand wives in the CK, or whether Joseph will approve my CK passport.

William Schryver wrote:
Where is your posterity of gospel-rooted children and grandchildren, whose eyes shine with the pure light of truth and virtue?


Oh my Gawd. You mean for them to end up like you? (pass the vomit bag, please). They are beautiful, stable children, and I'm bursting with pride at how they turned out, minus Mormonism. I work for my son, and we get along great, and have great mutual respect. My youngest daughter turned 20 yesterday. She works as a nurse in aged care. I could not ask for a better result, after all those years of hard work. I shudder to think, genuinely, how the Church might have screwed them up. You have to appreciate what normal means, to understand what I'm saying.

William Schryver wrote:
Where is your peace of mind when you lie down at night?


On working days I don’t get much sleep, but on nights off I sleep about 8-10 hours – like a baby in heavenly bliss. I don’t live in religious guilt, like you, and therefore my sleep is always sweet, and I wake up feeling free and happy - always. Without exception. But I must duly acknowledge that being a slave to Mormonism helped me appreciate this so much more, and that’s why, ironically, I thank my Mormon experience for the current peace I have. Sort of like Papillion escaping Devil’s Island.



William Schryver wrote:
The corrosion of your soul continues from day to day, leaving you bitter and cold; crippled and old.


My experience with fanatical Mormons devoid of reason? Perhaps so.


William Schryver wrote:
Where is the light of truth and knowledge that might have steadily expanded your mind beyond the base and earthly thoughts upon which you are now fixated?


If you are an example of this “expansion”, then Jesus, please save us from your followers.


William Schryver wrote:
Replaced with the vanity of the pretended wisdom and meagre intellectual attainments of men who know less of the meaning and purpose of our existence than your average primary child. You might have positioned yourself for learning on a galactic scale, and instead you’ve settled for the constricting walls of a dank flat and a dingy cab.


You obviously think “cab drivers”, publicans and sinners, Samaritans, and anyone beneath your Mormon dignity too unworthy of your presence. I get that bit, loud and clear.

William Schryver wrote:
And now, from the source you’d least prefer, you’ve been warned again. That is perhaps the most ironic cut of all, I know, but you have to learn to hear God’s voice in the most unlikely of places, and be willing and humble enough to accept it regardless of its origin.


I think Mormonism would be the most unlikely place. And I don’t “hear” God’s voice in what you post. All I hear is hatred.

William Schryver wrote:
And so, I implore you again: get off this train before it's too late. The consequences of ignoring the warning I bring will fall upon you with much more force, alacrity, and permanence than did those of the previous 24 years.


The warning “I bring”? Much scripture study doth make thee mad, Will. I’m sure you’d like to see me really, really suffer, but guess what? You are not God. And you do not know the mind of God, and you do not speak for God – except in your vain, heated, and flowery religious imagination. You just can’t bear the thought that people can actually live happy and meaningful lives outside of Mormonism. ‘Tis too much for thee.

William Schryver wrote:
But I fear your feet are set on this path, no matter if an angel should call upon you with a voice of thunder.


And no doubt you are that “angel”. Are you happy now that you’ve expressed your daily dose of self-righteous loathing for those who choose a different path? Do you feel better? Is your religious ego satisfied? Do you imagine God saying, “thanks, Will, just what I would have said”? As someone wise once said, “don’t distress yourself with dark imaginings”, Will, people aren’t as bad as you like to think.

William Schryver wrote:
The choice is, as always, yours to make.


And what you say will not make an iota of difference. You don’t compel admiration from me, just pity.
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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Where is the committed love of an eternal companion with whom you might have relished life all this time, and whom you might have had beside you forever?


(will from the "wheels" thread, responding to KA)
Quote:
xxooxx to you, too.

You know, I was a little chagrined about the thought of you moving down a cupsize, but I have to say that, based on your Easter photo, it worked out very well; you look pretty damn hot for a thirty-something mother of 4!


No man who really respects and loves his "eternal companion" would talk the way you do about other women. The only person who should feel chagrined is your poor wife.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:36 pm 
beastie wrote:

No man who really respects and loves his "eternal companion" would talk the way you do about other women. The only person who should feel chagrined is your poor wife.


You beat me to it! Post discarded now that it's been said.


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Ray:

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… what you say will not make an iota of difference.

I realize that, of course. But I had to say it anyway. And having now said all I set out to say, I’ll leave you to your fate.
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beastlie:
Quote:
No man who really respects and loves his "eternal companion" would talk the way you do about other women. The only person who should feel chagrined is your poor wife.

Trust me, she doesn’t.

And I still say that Kimberly looks pretty damn hot for a thirty-something mother of 4. You go, girl! I may not agree with your opinions when it comes to religion, but I admire many of the things you're doing in your life. I think you deserve the compliments you receive, even though beastlie doesn’t seem to see what I say in that light.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Oink. onik oink, oink Oink oINK!! oink

Translation:

Will, do you think Kimberly is as hot as Katherine the Great?

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:31 pm 
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And I still say that Kimberly looks pretty damn hot for a thirty-something mother of 4. You go, girl! I may not agree with your opinions when it comes to religion, but I admire many of the things you're doing in your life. I think you deserve the compliments you receive, even though beastlie doesn’t seem to see what I say in that light.


No one said that KA didn't deserve compliments.

I am extremely skeptical that your wife would feel loved and respected were she to read the type of things you say to and about women on this board. You can insist otherwise as much as you like, but those of us who weren't born yesterday have a right to remain skeptical of your assurances.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:15 pm 
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The Dude wrote:
Oink. onik oink, oink Oink oINK!! oink

Translation:

Will, do you think Kimberly is as hot as Katherine the Great?

The Dude!

I knew if I mentioned your name, you'd come running. How are things? Did you bit the Big Apple? Good. Don't mind the maggots.

As for your question, the answer is simple: as much as I like ktg, in her uptight, seemingly sexually-frustrated way, I still have to say that Kimberly Ann is orders of magnitude hotter, apostate or not.

Sorry, ktg, but facts is facts ...

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:24 pm 
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beastie wrote:
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And I still say that Kimberly looks pretty damn hot for a thirty-something mother of 4. You go, girl! I may not agree with your opinions when it comes to religion, but I admire many of the things you're doing in your life. I think you deserve the compliments you receive, even though beastlie doesn’t seem to see what I say in that light.


No one said that KA didn't deserve compliments.

I am extremely skeptical that your wife would feel loved and respected were she to read the type of things you say to and about women on this board. You can insist otherwise as much as you like, but those of us who weren't born yesterday have a right to remain skeptical of your assurances.

beastlie dear,

We've been over this ground before. My dearly beloved is quite in tune with her man. She insists on me reading my posts to her, so that she can laugh along with me at the hypocritical nature of the typical female apostate (not like you, KA) who is so prone to find fault with any allegedly faithful Latter-day Saint who is not wracked with sexual hangups, as you and so many of your cohorts seem to be.

You see, my dear Belinda is not threatened by my reading (and enjoying) Kimberly's blog entry concerning her cosmetic surgery (great blog, KA!) nor by my being able to, without shame or any embarrassment whatsoever, tell KA that she made a good call.

Why are you so uptight, my dear? I thought your liberation from Mormonism might have freed you from all your prior hangups, but you're still clinging to them like a bad habit. Weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Yes, I remember your protests very well, that your wife reads and enjoys all your flirtatious, semi-lewd comments to other women. You assured us then that she reads all of your posts, and approves of them ahead of time. Does she watch your chats as well? I didn't believe it then, and I still don't believe it now.

I know what love and respect is, because I've experienced it for nearly 12 years now. What you do ain't it, and that observation has nothing to do with "sexual hang-ups". What you do disrespects your wife, and if, on the very slim chance you're actually telling the truth about her condoning your behavior, it's because she feels that she doesn't have any choice, which is tragic.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:37 pm 
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beastie wrote:
Yes, I remember your protests very well, that your wife reads and enjoys all your flirtatious, semi-lewd comments to other women. You assured us then that she reads all of your posts, and approves of them ahead of time. Does she watch your chats as well? I didn't believe it then, and I still don't believe it now.

I know what love and respect is, because I've experienced it for nearly 12 years now. What you do ain't it, and that observation has nothing to do with "sexual hang-ups". What you do disrespects your wife, and if, on the very slim chance you're actually telling the truth about her condoning your behavior, it's because she feels that she doesn't have any choice, which is tragic.

She probably has a different conception of "lewd" than you apparently do. :lol:

Wow, you really have serious issues, don't you? You do realize that there is competent professional help available for these kinds of problems, right?
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Well, Mrs. Schryver just read this post of yours, sighed, put on her eye shade, settled into her pillow, tucked the blankets around her neck, and said, "Why do you even bother talking with people like that? That woman is probably judging all men by the standards of whatever bad experiences she's had, or whatever bad decisions she made in the past. She certainly knows nothing about what trust in a relationship really means. I'll bet the man she's with now was picked on the basis of how easy it was for her to control him."

And, with that, her commentary ended.

Simple, profound, to the point -- all I can say is she's rarely, if ever, wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Will,

Sorry. You may be an actor, but you ain't that good. It's not working.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:51 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
Well, Mrs. Schryver just read this post of yours, sighed, put on her eye shade, settled into her pillow, tucked the blankets around her neck, and said, "Why do you even bother talking with people like that? That woman is probably judging all men by the standards of whatever bad experiences she's had, or whatever bad decisions she made in the past. She certainly knows nothing about what trust in a relationship really means. I'll bet the man she's with now was picked on the basis of how easy it was for her to control him."

And, with that, her commentary ended.

Simple, profound, to the point -- all I can say is she's rarely, if ever, wrong.


So she agrees with your comment that KA is "hot"? And your blatant sexual flattery of KA? Yeah, I can just see David O. McKay saying to his wife, "don't you agree that Mark E. Petersen's wife is HOT".

You are one screwed up Mormon cookie.


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:54 pm 
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beastie wrote:
Will,

Sorry. You may be an actor, but you ain't that good. It's not working.

:lol:

What do you want, beastlie, a freaking notarized letter, with picture ID and a fingerprint?

I think perhaps Belinda hit the nail on the head: she saw what only one woman could see in another woman. You're a control freak. At least now you are. Sure, you probably had a bastard of a first husband, and I'm really sorry about that. Men who don't respect and adore their women aren't worthy to have a woman at their side.

But, more likely than not, her assessment of the situation is spot on: your reaction to the first mistake was to find someone you could dominate psychologically and probably intellectually, too. That way, you are guaranteed of holding the reins all the time.

Well, guess what, my dear -- that's not trust and respect. That's distrust set in stone, and disrespect in the form of faithless control.

If it works for you and your man, more power to you. But it's not how I would choose to live, and my bet is that most women would not prefer a man who was so easily dominated and so willingly disrespected.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:54 pm 
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So she agrees with your comment that KA is "hot"? And your blatant sexual flattery of KA? Yeah, I can just see David O. McKay saying to his wife, "don't you agree that Mark E. Petersen's wife is HOT".

You are one screwed up Mormon cookie.


And don't forget, she agrees with Will's comments on how pleased he would be to see KA in a t-shirt, and, IIRC, how he couldn't take his eyes of her chest when they met. And I wonder about what may have been said in chats that she condoned.

LOL! Will is far too enamored of his own acting abilities. I doubt he's convinced anyone but himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:01 pm 
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But, more likely than not, her assessment of the situation is spot on: your reaction to the first mistake was to find someone you could dominate psychologically and probably intellectually, too. That way, you are guaranteed of holding the reins all the time.


You are completely wrong in your assessment of my relationship, however, you have revealed something quite interesting about yourself in the meantime. You seem to think that a man who does not make suggestive comments to other women must be under the domination of his wife. That's an interesting viewpoint, and probably reveals more than you would like.

I am very sorry your wife has not experienced a relationship with a man who loves and respects her so much that he wouldn't even have the desire to make suggestive comments to other women, much less to have to be dominated and controlled in order not to do so. She has my sympathies.

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:06 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
:lol:

What do you want, beastlie, a freaking notarized letter, with picture ID and a fingerprint?

I think perhaps Belinda hit the nail on the head: she saw what only one woman could see in another woman. You're a control freak. At least now you are. Sure, you probably had a bastard of a first husband, and I'm really sorry about that. Men who don't respect and adore their women aren't worthy to have a woman at their side.

But, more likely than not, her assessment of the situation is spot on: your reaction to the first mistake was to find someone you could dominate psychologically and probably intellectually, too. That way, you are guaranteed of holding the reins all the time.

Well, guess what, my dear -- that's not trust and respect. That's distrust set in stone, and disrespect in the form of faithless control.

If it works for you and your man, more power to you. But it's not how I would choose to live, and my bet is that most women would not prefer a man who was so easily dominated and so willingly disrespected.


I see. You're afraid of beastie because she doesn't submit to your patriarchial whims which allows you to call other married women "hot". She, obviously, is the "one out of line". You want a woman who will tie your shoelaces, serve you dinner with a smile, and ask what time you'll be home, so she can put on your pyjamas and cuddle you to sleep, while thinking of competition from the "other" 32 wives.

It's called, "Male Mormon Heaven". "I rule, you stay in the kitchen and cook dinner."


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:09 pm 
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beastlie:

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And don't forget, she agrees with Will's comments on how pleased he would be to see KA in a t-shirt, and, IIRC, how he couldn't take his eyes of her chest when they met. And I wonder about what may have been said in chats that she condoned.

At least stick with the facts as you know them. Your forays into fictionalization don't become one who claims to be impressed solely by empirical evidence.

As a matter of fact, however, Mrs. S and I were just reading KA's blog entry about her breast exam (hilarious, by the way -- I highly recommend it) and I reminded her (Mrs. S.) that KA was the hot little dish I had seen in the black spaghetti strap number at the exmo conference in '06. (KA, to my knowledge, doesn't remember our brief meeting. I think she'd had a little to drink that evening.)

I realize you people are mega hung up on the notion that married couples could never have inviolable trust between themselves, and I'm sorry your respective experiences with love and relationships has been so poor. But the simple fact is that confident women married to devoted men don't spend much (if any) time wondering whether or not that man is going to cheat on them. They've long since become one with that man, and the very notion of that part of them destroying the other part never enters into their minds.

Nor would such a woman seek to suppress certain aspects of their man's personality just to give them some twisted sense of control over him. To me, that is patently pathological. And, ironically enough, if we were having this discussion in any other venue than a LDS-related message board, normal people would think that your finding something wrong with my commenting on KA's blog entry about her cosmetic surgery was just freakishly prudish, and anachronistically Victorian. It is, after all, the 21st century, and people do talk about such things absent any sense of shame.

Man, you people are the strangest collection of pathological hangups I have ever seen!

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:14 pm 
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beastie wrote:
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But, more likely than not, her assessment of the situation is spot on: your reaction to the first mistake was to find someone you could dominate psychologically and probably intellectually, too. That way, you are guaranteed of holding the reins all the time.


You are completely wrong in your assessment of my relationship, however, you have revealed something quite interesting about yourself in the meantime. You seem to think that a man who does not make suggestive comments to other women must be under the domination of his wife. That's an interesting viewpoint, and probably reveals more than you would like.

I am very sorry your wife has not experienced a relationship with a man who loves and respects her so much that he wouldn't even have the desire to make suggestive comments to other women, much less to have to be dominated and controlled in order not to do so. She has my sympathies.

As you have hers.

:lol:

Wow! It's no wonder there are so many analysts driving around in Mercedes.

Between you and Ray, there's enough material that Freud could spend another lifetime studying just the two of you.

Wow!

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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:17 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
Between you and Ray, there's enough material that Freud could spend another lifetime studying just the two of you.

Wow!


Forget about Freud. An imbecile can work out your motives.


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:22 pm 
William Schryver wrote:
It is, after all, the 21st century, and people do talk about such things absent any sense of shame.

Man, you people are the strangest collection of pathological hangups I have ever seen!


And Will is liberated! And a Mormon to boot!! LOL.

I think it's quite possible Will contributes to 75% of porn-viewing in Utah. :lol:

You hung-up and religiously twisted little ziggurat.


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 Post subject: Re: Building the FARMS Ziggurat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:15 am 
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At least stick with the facts as you know them. Your forays into fictionalization don't become one who claims to be impressed solely by empirical evidence.

As a matter of fact, however, Mrs. S and I were just reading KA's blog entry about her breast exam (hilarious, by the way -- I highly recommend it) and I reminded her (Mrs. S.) that KA was the hot little dish I had seen in the black spaghetti strap number at the exmo conference in '06. (KA, to my knowledge, doesn't remember our brief meeting. I think she'd had a little to drink that evening.)

I realize you people are mega hung up on the notion that married couples could never have inviolable trust between themselves, and I'm sorry your respective experiences with love and relationships has been so poor. But the simple fact is that confident women married to devoted men don't spend much (if any) time wondering whether or not that man is going to cheat on them. They've long since become one with that man, and the very notion of that part of them destroying the other part never enters into their minds.

Nor would such a woman seek to suppress certain aspects of their man's personality just to give them some twisted sense of control over him. To me, that is patently pathological. And, ironically enough, if we were having this discussion in any other venue than a LDS-related message board, normal people would think that your finding something wrong with my commenting on KA's blog entry about her cosmetic surgery was just freakishly prudish, and anachronistically Victorian. It is, after all, the 21st century, and people do talk about such things absent any sense of shame.

Man, you people are the strangest collection of pathological hangups I have ever seen!


You’re right, it was a tank-top, not a Tshirt. My mistake.

You have an odd idea of what “inviolable trust” looks like. As I’ve said to you before on this topic, I know there are some married couples who get turned on by watching each other flirt and make suggestive comments to other people – and sometimes even more than that. I can’t imagine that these people would be active LDS, however. I also know that there are some married couples who are so emotionally disengaged that they really don’t care what their spouse may say to others. And, as well, there are some married couples in which one partner has decided to tolerate a certain amount of flirtation and suggestive behavior, as long as it goes no further than that, although the tolerant partner usually isn’t thrilled about the “compromise”. Being LDS would not disqualify those scenarios, so they are real possibilities.

Perhaps your wife has reason to believe that you will never act on your suggestive, flirtatious behavior. That could be the “inviolable trust” portion, I suspect. But the question remains: does a man who truly loves and respects his wife behave in such a manner? Sure, he may love her, but I doubt the respect part of the equation.

Despite your personal traits of bravado and grandiosity, you seem to be a fairly intelligent man. You should be intelligent enough to realize that what I’m pointing out isn’t simply “commenting about KA’s cosmetic surgery” – it’s rather your cyber-drooling over females other than your wife. You’re just tap-dancing now.

My opinion is that men who brag the loudest about their supposed virility and manhood, and decry other men as “emasculated”, are usually protesting a bit too loudly. My opinion is that men – like women – who have no reason to feel insecure about their sexuality (either performance or attractions), also have no reason to go around loudly proclaiming how virile and manly they are.

Here’s why I am skeptical that an active LDS female would be comfortable with her husband behaving the way you do:

Quote:
If you are married, avoid flirtations of any kind. Sometimes we hear of a married man going to lunch with his secretary or other women in the office. Men and women who are married sometimes flirt and tease with members of the opposite sex. So-called harmless meetings are arranged, or inordinate amounts of time are spent together. In all of these cases, people rationalize by saying that these are natural expressions of friendship. But what may appear to be harmless teasing or simply having a little fun with someone of the opposite sex can easily lead to more serious involvement and eventual infidelity.
A good question to ask ourselves is this: Would my spouse be pleased if he or she knew I was doing this? Would a wife be pleased to know that her husband lunches alone with his secretary? Would a husband be pleased if he saw his wife flirting and being coy with another man? My beloved brothers and sisters, this is what Paul meant when he said: “Abstain from all appearance of evil” (1 Thes. 5:22).

President Ezra Taft Benson
The Message:
The Law of Chastity
http://LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnex ... &hideNav=1
This statement of President Benson’s was also repeated in the Institute manual about marriage.

Now, of course it’s possible that Will’s wife thinks this is quaint, silly, and “emasculated” advice. I’m sure there are some LDS women like that – but I also imagine their numbers would be extraordinarily small, and the chances that Will’s wife just happens to be one of those women even smaller. While I could be wrong, of course, in my opinion it is far, far more likely that Will’s wife is simply unaware of his internet behavior, and he’s putting on an act here.
But there’s no doubt – Will feels some need to engage in bravado concerning his virile manhood.

_________________
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com


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