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 Post subject: DCP: "RfM is My Laboratory"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:44 pm 
Master Mahan

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Holy cow... I can hardly believe I am seeing this! Prof. Peterson has at last come out an admitted that his obsession with RfM extends into the professional realm. Not only does he participate in a sort of juvenile, back-and-forth name-calling badmitton with many of the posters over there, he has now declared that it is an object of serious academic scrutiny for himself:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Ray, one of the reasons that I keep something of an eye on RFM is that I'm interested, precisely, in the kinds of things that lead people out of the Church. I've publicly said, on at least a couple of occasions, that it's a kind of laboratory for me. I'm quite serious about that. (Some there, I know, think that I have a calling or am being paid to monitor RFM. That's not true. But, of course, since it's an article of faith with some of them that I'm a professional liar, I don't suppose it does much good for me to deny it.)
(emphasis added)

Stunning, eh? For those who wondered why he doesn't have more peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field of study, now you have an answer from the man himself. But what kind of "laboratory" houses a scientist who routinely flings petty insults and mud at his object of study? In fact, here is DCP's current signature line:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
"Why are those at Mormonapologetics.org are [sic] vicious, cowardly refuse? . . . I see the lot as cowardly human refuse." (Green Messiah, "Recovery" board, 30 December 2006)

"The man is a barracuda! . . . He is a mean spirited person of the highest order. I have no sympathy for this poor excuse for a human being at all! Blech!!!" (Lucyfer, "Recovery" board, 26 December 2006, regarding Daniel Peterson [aka "El Lardo"])


What could honestly be the purpose of this? If you're asking yourself this question, you can rest assured that you are not alone. Here is the poster called "gitxanartist":

gitxanartist wrote:
Your not going to get civil anything with them with that signature of yours. That just stirs the pot even further, am I wrong?


What do you suppose DCP's reply is? Are you imaging that he says, "Hey, yeah. You're right. It's sort of pointless for me to cite these insulting quotes like this. In fact, it seems a tad sophomoric." If so, you will be disappointed:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
I'm only quoting them. I've got two or three dozen more such quotations on file -- the search function at RFM is pretty good, and I find such things amusing -- and could easily have had several times that many, and some considerably worse. (Would you be interested in the insults directed toward my wife?)

The uncivil offenses haven't been coming from me. And it seems odd (to me, at least) to fault the person who cites an insult directed against himself, as if he were the guilty party rather than the person who offered the insult.


Well, perhaps it's just me, but I can't see any "fault finding" in gitxanartist's post... What is it that DCP is talking about? Does he honestly think his use of this material in his signature line is totally benign and void of any political significance? Does he think this somehow makes him seem more benevolent and saintly?

A bit later, Uncle Dale offers up this sage piece of advice:

Uncle Dale wrote:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."


Prof. Peterson, unfortunately, often dislikes advice. Read on:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
If you're trying to say that I hate my enemies, curse them, do evil to them, and refuse to pray for them, and to suggest that I cease doing so, I can only wonder which one of my posts here granted you this insight into my character and intimate behavior.


And U. Dale's reply:

Uncle Dale wrote:
You misunderstand me, Doc. -- I was speaking of your foe, not you.
But, if the shoe fits, it is one might all wear now and then, eh?


Now watch as DCP reneges on his initial claim:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
I'm sure that all do wear it from time to time. But, by and large, that's not one of my principal failings. (I have others that I cherish.)


In other words, he does implicitly "hate [his] enemies, curse them, do evil to them, and refuse to pray for them" "from time to time." Actually, I seem to recall an email posted by Rollo Tomasi in which DCP really did proceed to issue a number of GA-style curses. So at least he's being honest. For now.

A bit further on, in an inadvertent refutation of juliann's nonsensical apostate argument, DCP offers up this satiric response to a post from "veritasvocat"

Daniel Peterson wrote:
veritasvocat wrote:
Both boards are EXACTLY the same in character, the ONLY difference is which side of the debate they are on.


You're right. They're indistinguishable.

RFM forbids defense of the Church. This board forbids criticisms of it.

I'm barred from posting on RFM. You're barred from posting here.

RFM trafficks heavily in personal and collective attacks on "Morgbots" as, among other things, cheapskates, fascists, ignoramuses, liars, fools, sociopaths, fakes, arrogant fanatics, madmen, Morons (get it?), hacks, tyrants, social climbers, and pigs. This board, I guess, does precisely the same (though I must have missed all of those posts).

Identical.
(emphasis added---actually, the board only forbids embarrassing, damaging criticism)

Anyways, back to D'unk's observation, which is expanded upon here by Tarski:

Tarski wrote:
I am quite impressed if you actually do routinely "bless", "pray for" and "do good for" Tal Bachman, Bob McCue or Steve Benson.


Yes, I am too. It is really commendable that Prof. Peterson is so charitable towards people who, by all appearances, are his enemies. Oh, wait a sec....

Daniel Peterson wrote:
I didn't say one way or the other whether I "bless," "pray for," and "do good" for Messrs. Bachman, McCue, and Benson. And I won't. I did, however, implicitly deny cursing them, etc. And I'm happy to make that denial explicit.


Ah! So that's how it is. Funny how he left out the "hate," "do evil to," and "refuse to pray for" part via that neat little "etc."---it's is if he can't bear to repeat the words which are closest to his heart. Finally, he offers up this priceless (and completely hypocritical) nugget:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Candidly, I don't aspire to impress anybody with what I do in my private prayers. I'm not going to lay them out here for critique or comment, and I'm not going to use them to boast. They're exactly none of anybody else's business. I'm not here to preen myself on my righteousness or my superior spirituality. You will also not see a list of my charitable donations, however long or short it may be.

Thank you very much.
(emphasis added)

Then what, pray tell, is the purpose of your signature line, Prof. Peterson? Do you simply want to "embarrass" these offenders, and if so, to what end? To make them look bad? To make yourself look better? What?

In any case, I am betting that Prof. P. is going to sorely regret the comments he made in this thread. Lol.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:49 am 
Famous Potato
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A prayer by Dr. Dan Peterson .02

A straight jacket for Dr. Pete 59.95

A room with wall to wall padding 2000.00

This thread.............................PRICELESS




They're going mad over there!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:49 am 
Hmmm...I wonder if Shades's board will be his next "laboratory"! LOL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:54 am 
God
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Did Daniel really write that RFM posters are; "Cheapskates, fascists, ignoramuses, liars, fools, sociopaths, fakes, arrogant fanatics, madmen, Morons (get it?), hacks, tyrants, social climbers, and pigs." ?

Wow. The man is truly arrogant.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:00 am 
God
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Infymus wrote:
Did Daniel really write that RFM posters are; "Cheapskates, fascists, ignoramuses, liars, fools, sociopaths, fakes, arrogant fanatics, madmen, Morons (get it?), hacks, tyrants, social climbers, and pigs." ?

Wow. The man is truly arrogant.


No, he's saying that's what RFM posters say about "Morgbots"


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "RfM is My Laboratory"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:13 am 
God
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Mister Scratch wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:
I didn't say one way or the other whether I "bless," "pray for," and "do good" for Messrs. Bachman, McCue, and Benson. And I won't. I did, however, implicitly deny cursing them, etc. And I'm happy to make that denial explicit.

I don't know about DCP's cursing Bachman, McCue or Benson, but he sure seemed to be throwing some 'cosmic curse' my way in May of last year, stemming from the FAIR thread about his involvement in rumor-mongering of Quinn's sexual orientation. Here are some of the gems DCP cast my way in personal messages to me (all bold mine for emphasis):

Quote:
This is not merely disagreement; you are bearing false witness against me, and you will, I believe, someday have to account for it. You have the temporary advantage of what, in this context, strikes me as a rather cowardly anonymity. But that will not save you from the accounting.


Quote:
But I will deny as false, and slanderously so, your depiction of my attitude and behavior toward Mike Quinn as “venomous,” “sick,” and the like. This is not only untrue, but libelous. Nor did I ever suggest that it was Quinn’s homosexuality that has kept him from getting a job, or that it ought to do so. You traduce me when you publicly say such things, and you will someday be obliged to acknowledge the falsehood and injustice of your public accusations.

I do not take this lightly. I’m not joking, and this is not a game. As God is my witness, what you are saying is false, and I will so testify.


Quote:
I will have no further dealings with you, so far as I can avoid them. In my eyes, whatever claim you may once have had to the moral high ground -- and I was more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt -- has now been forfeited. Your behavior is contemptible and unwarranted.


Quote:
Don't answer. At this point, I don't care. You are beneath notice.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "RfM is My Laboratory"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:31 am 
God

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Quote:
In any case, I am betting that Prof. P. is going to sorely regret the comments he made in this thread. Lol.....


Actually, he'll probably just deny he ever said it. And when presented with proof, he'll make a joke of it and laugh it off.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:46 am 
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Infymus wrote:
Did Daniel really write that RFM posters are; "Cheapskates, fascists, ignoramuses, liars, fools, sociopaths, fakes, arrogant fanatics, madmen, Morons (get it?), hacks, tyrants, social climbers, and pigs." ?

Wow. The man is truly arrogant.


Ah. While I still feel he is arrogant, this struck me as an odd thing for Dan to write.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:35 am 
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Quote:
He has now declared that it is an object of serious academic scrutiny for himself.


You’ve misunderstood the quote. Dr. Peterson did not claim that RFM provides an opportunity to gage his own work and/or self along the lines of a “serious academic scrutiny.” He said, “I'm interested, precisely, in the kinds of things that lead people out of the Church.”

Quote:
Stunning, eh?


No, not at all.

Quote:
For those who wondered why he doesn't have more peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field of study, now you have an answer from the man himself.


Please explain how in the world you came up with this conclusion. I find the idea that Dr. Peterson would use the criticism raised by those at RFM as a type of “peer-review,” more than a little absurd. Very few people who participate in that forum have had any exposure whatsoever to LDS scholarship.

You’ve misrepresented the quote.

Quote:
But what kind of "laboratory" houses a scientist who routinely flings petty insults and mud at his object of study?


The alleged “petty insults and mud” Dr. Peterson flings could never compare to the hatred directed against him over at RFM. However, as evidenced by his acceptance of such ludicrous titles as the “Crispy Crème King,” Dr. Peterson clearly has a sense of humor; he fails to take both himself and those at RFM too seriously.

Quote:
What could honestly be the purpose of this?


You’ll have to ask him. But in addition to the fact I find his signature lines quite funny, perhaps he intends to draw our attention to the absolute absurdity of the expressed opinion.

Quote:
It's sort of pointless for me to cite these insulting quotes like this.


Insulting to who? Dr. Peterson? LDS Apologists?

Quote:
In fact, it seems a tad sophomoric."


Dr. Peterson has continually expressed his view that contrary to the opinion held by many of their participants, message boards are not the place of serious scholarship.

What’s wrong with being a bit “sophomoric” in this environment?

Lighten up a little.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:00 am 
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Scratchie, you're obsessed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:35 pm 
Master Mahan

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Enuma Elish wrote:
Quote:
He has now declared that it is an object of serious academic scrutiny for himself.


You’ve misunderstood the quote. Dr. Peterson did not claim that RFM provides an opportunity to gage his own work and/or self along the lines of a “serious academic scrutiny.” He said, “I'm interested, precisely, in the kinds of things that lead people out of the Church.”


That's not what I said... I interpreted his remark to mean that he takes his study of RfM quite seriously. Nowhere did I saying anything about him taking stock of himself.

Quote:
Quote:
Stunning, eh?


No, not at all.

Quote:
For those who wondered why he doesn't have more peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field of study, now you have an answer from the man himself.


Please explain how in the world you came up with this conclusion. I find the idea that Dr. Peterson would use the criticism raised by those at RFM as a type of “peer-review,” more than a little absurd. Very few people who participate in that forum have had any exposure whatsoever to LDS scholarship.

You’ve misrepresented the quote.


No, you've misread my statement. People have argued in the past that Prof. Peterson doesn't have as many peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field as one might expect from a fully-tenured professor. The reason for this, the argument goes, is that he spends the bulk of his time posting on FAIR/MAD and "researching" RfM. Nowhere did I say anything about him getting legitimate "peer review" by the folks at RfM.

Quote:
Quote:
But what kind of "laboratory" houses a scientist who routinely flings petty insults and mud at his object of study?


The alleged “petty insults and mud” Dr. Peterson flings could never compare to the hatred directed against him over at RFM.


This doesn't really answer my question.

Quote:
However, as evidenced by his acceptance of such ludicrous titles as the “Crispy Crème [sic] King,” Dr. Peterson clearly has a sense of humor; he fails to take both himself and those at RFM too seriously.


Unless I'm mistaken, "Krispy Kreme King" was a self-applied label.

Quote:
Quote:
What could honestly be the purpose of this?


You’ll have to ask him. But in addition to the fact I find his signature lines quite funny, perhaps he intends to draw our attention to the absolute absurdity of the expressed opinion.


So... what? Are you saying that the purpose of his sig. lines is to ridicule his purported object of study? That certainly doesn't reflect very well on his seriousness as a scholar.

Quote:
Quote:
It's sort of pointless for me to cite these insulting quotes like this.


Insulting to who? Dr. Peterson? LDS Apologists?


Insulting to Prof. P. You must have missed the quotation marks which surrounded the citation.

Quote:
Quote:
In fact, it seems a tad sophomoric."


Dr. Peterson has continually expressed his view that contrary to the opinion held by many of their participants, message boards are not the place of serious scholarship.


Why did he say he regards RfM as his "laboratory," then?

Quote:
What’s wrong with being a bit “sophomoric” in this environment?

Lighten up a little.


I could say the same to you.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:17 pm 
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Quote:
That's not what I said... I interpreted his remark to mean that he takes his study of RfM quite seriously.


I’m sure he does. I think Dr. Peterson is very interested in the types of issues that lead people to abandon Mormonism.

Quote:
Nowhere did I saying [sic] anything about him taking stock of himself.


Sorry, I misunderstood your intention for the resumptive pronoun.

Quote:
People have argued in the past that Prof. Peterson doesn't have as many peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field as one might expect from a fully tenured professor. The reason for this, the argument goes, is that he spends the bulk of his time posting on FAIR/MAD and "researching" RfM.


And no doubt those people possess a first-hand knowledge concerning all of Dr. Peterson’s work and the expectations held by most universities in order to qualify as a full-tenured professor, so that with this knowledge, they are fully qualified to render such a judgment.

Quote:
Nowhere did I say anything about him getting legitimate "peer review" by the folks at RfM.


Glad to see that we can agree on this point.

Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, "Krispy Kreme King" was a self-applied label.


I really don’t know the history. But the title certainly represents the long held portrayal of the man over on RFM. He didn’t come up with the alleged "donut obsession" on his own—if I’m not mistaken, Dan doesn’t even like donuts.

Quote:
So... what? Are you saying that the purpose of his sig. lines is to ridicule his purported object of study?


The word ridicule is your word, not mine.

Quote:
That certainly doesn't reflect very well on his seriousness as a scholar.


Since when do scholars posting on a web board need to remain “serious.”? I suppose on some levels, I’m a scholar, but those who know me can vouch for the fact that I am seldom serious.

Quote:
Insulting to Prof. P. You must have missed the quotation marks which surrounded the citation.


And why should it reflect negatively on Dan if he chooses to highlight insults directed against him?

Quote:
Why did he say he regards RfM as his "laboratory," then?

Dan’s interest in the reasons people leave the LDS Church that are articulated over on the oddly named “recovery” board does not negate the fact that message boards do not provide the most effective means to convey true scholarship.

Quote:
I could say the same to you.


Well, OK then. I certainly will.


Last edited by Enuma Elish on Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:18 pm 
Mister Scratch wrote:
Why did he say he regards RfM as his "laboratory," then?


He said it's a kind of laboratory. In other words he observes why people are leaving the Church. I don't think anyone would be unconcerned or unmoved by some of the stories posted on RFM. I explained some of my reasons to him, and some of the things I found difficult to accept or believe, and he listened with interest. He was "observing", and never at any time tried to counter or argue with my reasons.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:30 pm 
Master Mahan

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Enuma Elish wrote:
Quote:
That's not what I said... I interpreted his remark to mean that he takes his study of RfM quite seriously.


I’m sure he does. I think Dr. Peterson is very interested in the types of issues that lead people to abandon Mormonism.

Quote:
Nowhere did I say [sic] anything about him taking stock of himself.


Sorry, I misunderstood your intention for the resumptive pronoun.

Quote:
People have argued in the past that Prof. Peterson doesn't have as many peer-reviewed publications in his chosen field as one might expect from a fully tenured professor. The reason for this, the argument goes, is that he spends the bulk of his time posting on FAIR/MAD and "researching" RfM.


And no doubt those people possess a first-hand knowledge concerning all of Dr. Peterson’s work and the expectations held by most universities in order to qualify as a full-tenured professor, so that with this knowledge, they are fully qualified to render such a judgment.

Quote:
Nowhere did I say anything about him getting legitimate "peer review" by the folks at RfM.


Glad to see that we can agree on this point.

Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, "Krispy Kreme King" was a self-applied label.


I really don’t know the history. But the title certainly represents the long held portrayal of the man over on RFM. He didn’t come up with the alleged "donut obsession" on his own—if I’m not mistaken, Dan doesn’t even like donuts.

Quote:
So... what? Are you saying that the purpose of his sig. lines is to ridicule his purported object of study?


The word ridicule is your word, not mine.


Which word would you like, Enuma? What function do you think the sig. lines serve?

Quote:
Quote:
That certainly doesn't reflect very well on his seriousness as a scholar.


Since when do scholars posting on a web board need to remain “serious.”? I suppose on some levels, I’m a scholar, but those who know me can vouch for the fact that I am seldom serious.

Quote:
Insulting to Prof. P. You must have missed the quotation marks which surrounded the citation.


And why should it reflect negatively on Dan if he chooses to highlight insults directed against him?


How does it reflect positively? In all honesty, EE: what purpose does highlighting the insults serve?

Quote:
Quote:
Why did he say he regards RfM as his "laboratory," then?

Dan’s interest in the reasons people leave the LDS Church that are articulated over on the oddly named “recovery” board does not negate the fact that message boards do not provide the most effective means to convey true scholarship.


Who ever said they did? The point is that DCP has said that he views RfM as a worthwhile object of serious academic inquiry. It's unclear to me what you're taking issue with here, EE.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Quote:
Wow. The man is truly arrogant.


I know the man personally. While he is certainly confident, I have never, ever received the impression that he is in anyway arrogant. He’s actually a very kind, warm person that most people really enjoy being around.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:25 pm 
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Enuma Elish wrote:
Quote:
Wow. The man is truly arrogant.


I know the man personally. While he is certainly confident, I have never, ever received the impression that he is in anyway arrogant. He’s actually a very kind, warm person that most people really enjoy being around.


Well...I would suppose the "...in anyway arrogant..." comment might be because you've never disagreed with him. On the web, he has come across as arrogant when he said, and I paraphrase, "Grant Palmer is not an insider and if he claims this status because he's LDS then it's irrelevant."

It sounded very arrogant, dismissive and typical of the ad hominems of Dr. Peterson's ilk.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:31 pm 
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Scratch, DCP is nothing more than a mad scientist who injects heroin into mice to see what they do.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:39 pm 
God

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Enuma Elish wrote:
Quote:
Wow. The man is truly arrogant.


I know the man personally. While he is certainly confident, I have never, ever received the impression that he is in anyway arrogant. He’s actually a very kind, warm person that most people really enjoy being around.


Hmmmm... Dan does that a lot too (claims to "know [fill in the blank] personally"). But really, my money's on Monitor at this point.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:44 pm 
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Pokatator wrote:
A prayer by Dr. Dan Peterson .02

A straight jacket for Dr. Pete 59.95

A room with wall to wall padding 2000.00

This thread.............................PRICELESS




They're going mad over there!



Ok, Pokatator...ohmygosh!

I'm not one to laugh out loud at home given the atmosphere here, but I am laughing TEARS over here, and you just gave me the most therapeutic, loud belly laugh I have had in weeks! Thank you!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:44 pm 
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I have to admit I view MAD as a kind of laboratory, too. It demonstrates a good microcosm of the intellectual's attempt to reconcile religious belief with his/her respect for reliable facts.

It's getting pretty old, though, and beginning to look all like reruns.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:51 pm 
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beastie wrote:
I have to admit I view MAD as a kind of laboratory, too. It demonstrates a good microcosm of the intellectual's attempt to reconcile religious belief with his/her respect for reliable facts.

It's getting pretty old, though, and beginning to look all like reruns.


But do you inject the mice with heroin?

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