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 Post subject: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:07 pm 
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I thought about posting this initial story in which the Trump admin was illegally defying the law to prevent a whisteblower complaint being released to Congress:

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/ ... 2277689346

There's now a little more information on what's going on here. It turns out the complaint involves a promise Trump made to a foreign leader:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/politics ... index.html

Suffice to say, an urgent, credible whistleblower complaint from inside the intelligence community involving Trump making a promise to a foreign leader that the whitehouse is openly defying to law to prevent from being released to Congress sounds about as bad as it gets.

It continues to amaze me that the right-wing conspiracy crowd that believes a pedophile ring connecting the most important figures in the Democratic party was run out of a pizza shop sees stories like this and sees nothing. It's hard to wrap your head around the amount of cynicism and gullibility a person has to have for that to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:12 pm 
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From our perspective, the "gullibility" belongs to your side that you actually "believe" the story or frankly ANY other spoken by a Leftist.

Your media has a BAD habit of basically ANY time they open their mouths, especially when it concerns the Right, you're leaving out IMPORTANT details, which makes your side liars.

I mean, just look at the latest Kavanaugh example... Even though the New York Times's was given the FULL info by the book author's, they CHOSE to leave out key details that clearly debunked the desired story.

Another detail left out is that the person who "originated" this new claim against Kavanaugh was a side player on Clintons defense team during the Clinton/Ken Starr Investigation, and Kavanaugh was a side player on Ken Starrs team. So clearly it was nothing more than a political hit job with no basis in fact, just like the Ford and otherwise crap was.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:18 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
I mean, just look at the latest Kavanaugh example... Even though the New York Times's was given the FULL info by the book author's, they CHOSE to leave out key details that clearly debunked the desired story.

I agree with you in the above. The authors said on The View that it was the editors then Meghan McCain shot down that response as well as other co-hosts who chimed in. The media is definitely a problem these days.

And if you have been sprung free, I am happy to see you posting again. Too many times I wanted to start a "Free Faqs" thread here!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:27 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
... this new claim against Kavanaugh was a side player on Clintons defense team during the Clinton/Ken Starr Investigation, and Kavanaugh was a side player on Ken Starrs team.

Do we know if either of them is a side player of The World of Tanks?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:05 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
And if you have been sprung free, I am happy to see you posting again. Too many times I wanted to start a "Free Faqs" thread here!

Ya, I figured I'd showed I'd been following the new rules, so I put the request in to Shades to restore my privileges. Appreciate the thought...

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:41 pm 
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One unique way to clear Trump of any high crimes regarding the Ukraine is to send in LDSfaqs with his weather data claiming it to be an exculpatory voice recording of Trump not trying to make a political espionage deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:19 pm 
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Early days yet, but it’s starting to look like Trump was trying to blackmail the president of Ukraine into investigating Biden. If that’s what happened, it should be the express train to impeachment town. If he continues to obstruct, same train.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:06 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Early days yet, but it’s starting to look like Trump was trying to blackmail the president of Ukraine into investigating Biden. If that’s what happened, it should be the express train to impeachment town. If he continues to obstruct, same train.

While there had been previous reports that Trump had leaned on Ukraine to get dirt on Biden, this is the first I've heard this mentioned in conjunction with the whistleblower story. It would seem to dovetail with recent reports that Trump has diverted funding for Ukraine's defense to fund the border wall. It's a win-win for Trump: He gets diverted funds to build his wall and at the same time puts additional pressure on Volodymyr Zelensky to provide damaging intel on Biden.

I still think we are at the beginning of all of this. I'm not sure we know all the implications. But we have the vociferous and questionable objections raised by the administration in its legal justifications. We have the unprecedented nature of the DNI's refusal to provide the evidence to Congress. The story does not end here.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:47 am 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Early days yet, but it’s starting to look like Trump was trying to blackmail the president of Ukraine into investigating Biden. If that’s what happened, it should be the express train to impeachment town. If he continues to obstruct, same train.

While there had been previous reports that Trump had leaned on Ukraine to get dirt on Biden, this is the first I've heard this mentioned in conjunction with the whistleblower story. It would seem to dovetail with recent reports that Trump has diverted funding for Ukraine's defense to fund the border wall. It's a win-win for Trump: He gets diverted funds to build his wall and at the same time puts additional pressure on Volodymyr Zelensky to provide damaging intel on Biden.

I still think we are at the beginning of all of this. I'm not sure we know all the implications. But we have the vociferous and questionable objections raised by the administration in its legal justifications. We have the unprecedented nature of the DNI's refusal to provide the evidence to Congress. The story does not end here.

The previous story of Trump leaning on Ukraine with military aid to pressure them into ____ Biden already was already 5-alarm level impeachment story that was shrugged off because Democratic leaders have decided not to get serious about impeachment as a political calculation. It's weird that it's getting hyped now just because a secret aspect of it is potentially being uncovered. There's an odd bias in the media towards uncovering secrets being more scandalous than what's out in the open.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:14 am 
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In the past few years I have been frustrated by the sense that too much news time has been focused upon the economic consideration that speculation is much cheaper and easier to produce than facts. Sure some facts are used to start the process to keep viewer interest.

So in this whistle blower story are there any facts involved in the speculation about what the actual complaint was about. At first there was clearly speculation but that has transitioned into a specific story about Ukraine and Biden. I am unsure what the bridge from what if speculation to a specific story has been made of.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:28 am 
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huckelberry wrote:
In the past few years I have been frustrated by the sense that too much news time has been focused upon the economic consideration that speculation is much cheaper and easier to produce than facts. Sure some facts are used to start the process to keep viewer interest.

So in this whistle blower story are there any facts involved in the speculation about what the actual complaint was about. At first there was clearly speculation but that has transitioned into a specific story about Ukraine and Biden. I am unsure what the bridge from what if speculation to a specific story has been made of.


for what it's worth, Washington Post cited two confidential sources who said that the complaint was about Ukraine.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:46 am 
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I don't trust "confidential sources" or the Washington Post either. So, let's see what the facts are and then go from there. Congress should be able to get the information they want from Trump regarding this whistleblower. The public should know what happened too, without wild speculation from the MSM.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 am 
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Exiled wrote:
Congress should be able to get the information they want from Trump regarding this whistleblower.

Now, what’s to be done if they can’t?


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:01 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
Exiled wrote:
Congress should be able to get the information they want from Trump regarding this whistleblower.

Now, what’s to be done if they can’t?


Trump is going to stonewall Congress all the way through the election. I'd bet money that he won't debate the Democratic nominee, either--he'll just go around the country having more rallies and keep on ratcheting up the MAGgots. It's a new post-reality world.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
In the past few years I have been frustrated by the sense that too much news time has been focused upon the economic consideration that speculation is much cheaper and easier to produce than facts. Sure some facts are used to start the process to keep viewer interest.

So in this whistle blower story are there any facts involved in the speculation about what the actual complaint was about. At first there was clearly speculation but that has transitioned into a specific story about Ukraine and Biden. I am unsure what the bridge from what if speculation to a specific story has been made of.


for what it's worth, Washington Post cited two confidential sources who said that the complaint was about Ukraine.

Res Ipsa, thanks for the reply. Confidential sources are a bit better than rumor or pure speculation. One could wish for more complete and more reliable information.

The thought crosses my mind that if the tape of the presidents call is made public in Congressional hearing LDSfaqs will not believe a word. The troubling part of that is there a bunch in the Senate who believe every word LDSfaqs says.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:04 pm 
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It's hard to know the exact content of the whistleblower complaint right now obviously, but you don't need to rely on anonymous sources of a secret phone call to know the President attempted to extort a foreign nation to attack a political opponent with (taxpayer funded) military aid as the carrot/stick. That's already out in the open and about a million times worse than Watergate on the substance. The admin's line on that part already is, "So what if we did? Screw you."

Maybe the cloak and dagger nature of a secret recording would move the public in a way that a rambling Giuliani confession wouldn't. Maybe the content of the complaint is even worse, but we've got enough already.

Democratic leadership has calculated that it's not in their best interest to impeach because Republicans in the Senate shielding the President puts him above the law. They think an acquittal will hurt their 2020 election chances. You know what else will hurt their 2020 election chances? Trump's willingness to engage in egregiously unethical conduct to game elections. Letting Trump undermine free and fair elections seems a smidgen worse than taking an action marginally unpopular with the public, even assuming it was, on the "what will hurt the Democrats election chances?" meter.

Because because the conventional wisdom already is that it will go nowhere, media sources like CNN are already pivoting to a both sides narrative in which the focus also shifts onto what Ukraine has on Biden. It's like a worse version of 2016 happening in real time.

I've been worried about a US slide into illiberal authoritarianism ala Hungary et. al. for some time now. I don't think the likelihood that we'll go all the way down than that path has been higher than it seems today.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:15 pm 
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The WSJ has a differently sourced article regarding the whistleblower complaint with more detail:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defe ... 1568993176


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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:27 pm 
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What’s interesting is that it has to be someone from his administration. Who else would be privy to this phone call? The call was so over-the-top the whistleblower probably went to the Intel Community. Not sure how the cat got out of the bag. This is serious enough that Congress should immediately move to impeach, though.

- Doc

Eta:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
The WSJ has a differently sourced article regarding the whistleblower complaint with more detail:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defe ... 1568993176


Saw that article already...

1. What's funny is that there is "no sin or crime" in Trump asking those with the authority to look into someone else who according to reports (not from Trump) might have some corruption, criminal etc. issues.

2. Trump as President, after all, is the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" per the Constitution, thus this is entirely within his purvue.

3. Trump isn't the one who brought out various information that Biden's son might have some criminal problems LOL...
It was LEFTISTS... in Media and Biden's presidential candidate opponents!

Now you Leftists are trying to put this on Trump. Predictable Leftist corruption and hypocrisy.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:29 pm 
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If true, Trump essentially asked a powerful foreign national and head of state to attack and undermine a political rival's family. And he did this while withholding foreign aid that was intended to counteract Russian expansion.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Trump whistleblower complaint
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:07 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If true, Trump essentially asked a powerful foreign national and head of state to attack and undermine a political rival's family. And he did this while withholding foreign aid that was intended to counteract Russian expansion.

- Doc


Yeah, Doc, but lying lying lying liberals.

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