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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:57 pm 
God

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Peterson, 5hrs ago, wrote:
...until relatively recently, academia has been an overwhelmingly masculine preserve.

:eek: "until relatively recently?" He can't possibly be serious. Does he just say stuff like this to get attention? Is this a typical BYU faculty opinion? What an embarrassment he must be in a University setting. Even a religious school like BYU surely has moved beyond such uneducated tripe. I am understanding more and more the Maxwell Institute's decision to remove him.

On a related note, Peterson's "masculine preserve" that is ostensibly peer reviewing the Interpreter articles is failing miserably. The last several articles I read all had inexcusable statistical errors. He may think he is not able to attract competent female academics, but clearly the pertinent issue his journal has is in attracting competency, not a particular gender.


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:19 am 
God
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I have a question wrote:
The fact is, female apologists are SO much better in putting forward a reasoned argument precisely because that childish combativeness is absent. Why would a woman put herself forward to play stick and stones with Peterson when she can have a grown up conversation with critics instead?

Not only that, but he is flatly wrong about a woman’s ability to be competitive - has he not watched the Olympics Winter and Summer)?


Has he not watched Survivor, or, I dunno, spent two seconds with a woman who feels free to speak her mind in a professional environment? Anecdotally, women have been far more competitive than men in my workplace experience, and have a keen mind to exploit weakness.

Whatever the case may be, why would Peterson want to share the 'ziggurat', as it were, with a woman? They're total buzkills. Can you imagine it's Donut Friday at the home office, and the apologists are schoolhousing around, talking over the latest tidbits offered up across the Mormosphere, taking cheap shots at their enemies, and in walks Sister Apologist? She takes a seat at the laminate foldout table, grabs a Boston Cream, and clumsily asks, "What are we talking about, brethren?"

Ugh.

Why do they always ruin everything?

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:32 am 
God
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Lemmie wrote:
He may think he is not able to attract competent female academics, but clearly the pertinent issue his journal has is in attracting competency, not a particular gender.

It does sound as though this is the problem.

Peterson said that none of the qualified women whom he invited agreed to join his organization because they were all already overburdened with other work. That's a real issue, all right, in academic departments in which women are badly under-represented. Departments are tempted to make a few women faculty look like more by getting the few to do more than their share of holding large lectures, giving public talks, and chairing committees.

Those high-profile things are all work, though—and not usually interesting work. As one of my colleagues remarked, when I was trying to get her to chair a search committee, "I went into science to do science, not to open up science for women." Of course she was right. She's not a professor of getting-women-into-physics. She's a professor of physics.

Female faculty may rightly refuse to do more than their share of drudge work but you can always get a professor to take on another interesting project, because if nothing else it will be a great excuse for procrastinating on something less interesting. So if being part of Interpreter were seen as important and interesting then some of those BYU women would surely have joined. The fact that all who were asked declined implies that working on Interpreter is seen as a dull and pointless task.


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:52 pm 
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I work in a law firm of 17 lawyers - a profession historically aggressively male. Though the managing partner and founder is a man, 11 of our 17 lawyers (including one of his two partners) are female. Not because he is looking to hire primarily female lawyers, but because he has honestly been able to shed the masculine bias so inherent in the profession.

And it's not because it's a low-key, gentle environment. The managing partner is as aggressive and high-strung as they come. F-bombs are common, yelling is common, and expectations are extremely high. I guarantee DCP and his apologists would wither in this environment. It just happens that when historical masculine biases are put aside, we've discovered that gender has no bearing on whether someone can be a good, aggressive, capable attorney. Our female trial attorneys are no less capable, no less aggressive, and no less intelligent than our male attorneys.

To say that female scholars may not be able to thrive in the crucible of Mormon apologetics is a delusion borne of irrational masculine bigotry.


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:24 pm 
God
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I have a question wrote:
His assertion that fewer women are involved in sport, industry, politics etc, that they are “by nature” less competitive, is one of the most chauventistic and bias confirming opinions he’s ever wasted his breath on. The reason fewer women are involved in those areas a is not due to their “nature”, it’s because men barred them from participating in them for generations.

Interesting. I'm curious, if someone made the following statements, how would you characterize them? Would these statements also be considered "chauvenistic" and "bias confirming"?

Quote:
Men show a predisposition to be more analytical, linear and logical in their processing of information, whereas women show a clear tendency to process information in a more ‘whole-brained’ or ‘bigger-picture’ way.

Quote:
This is not about conscious behavior, but more about impulsive behavior. It appears that when things happen, a man’s base reaction is to jump into action, while women are more likely to react emotionally

Quote:
When under stress men produce ‘fight or flight’ hormones like testosterone and adrenaline, while women generally produce more oxytocin which buffers the ‘fight or flight’ response and has a pronounced calming effect.

Quote:
For the boys it is all about being the ‘alpha’ male in the pack, while for the girls, it’s more about getting along with everyone in the group.

Quote:
A woman’s approach to most things is different to that of a man. Drives and motivations, and the way in which these are fulfilled are, for the most part, different for men and women.

Would you agree with those statements?

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:34 pm 
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What a bombshell revelation! Yet another member of the apologetic community has defected to the community of "apostates"! Welcome to Jenny T(onks?)! I hope you choose to drop by MormonDiscussions.com to share your insights with us, if you have not already!

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Welcome to Jenny Tonks! I hope you choose to drop by MormonDiscussions.com to share your insights with us, if you have not already!

Feel free to bring your cousin Nymphadora Tonks as well. We welcome all who seek refuge from the Dementors. Apologium Obliviosa!

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:58 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
Quote:
Men show a predisposition to be more analytical, linear and logical in their processing of information, whereas women show a clear tendency to process information in a more ‘whole-brained’ or ‘bigger-picture’ way.

Whoever wrote this one certainly has a predisposition to describe women's thinking in a more 'quotation-marked' way. Yeesh.

If the writer of this sentence was a man, then the sentence is anecdotal evidence against itself. If a woman, for.


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:01 am 
God

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cinepro wrote:
Interesting. I'm curious, if someone made the following statements, how would you characterize them? Would these statements also be considered "chauvenistic" and "bias confirming"?
Quote:
Men show a predisposition to be more analytical, linear and logical in their processing of information, whereas women show a clear tendency to process information in a more ‘whole-brained’ or ‘bigger-picture’ way.

Quote:
This is not about conscious behavior, but more about impulsive behavior. It appears that when things happen, a man’s base reaction is to jump into action, while women are more likely to react emotionally

Quote:
When under stress men produce ‘fight or flight’ hormones like testosterone and adrenaline, while women generally produce more oxytocin which buffers the ‘fight or flight’ response and has a pronounced calming effect.

Quote:
For the boys it is all about being the ‘alpha’ male in the pack, while for the girls, it’s more about getting along with everyone in the group.

Quote:
A woman’s approach to most things is different to that of a man. Drives and motivations, and the way in which these are fulfilled are, for the most part, different for men and women.

Would you agree with those statements?

I’m pretty sure those statements are intent on explaining some behavioural differences between men and women and how they might operate differently within the same discipline. As opposed to making a blanket statement about why women aren’t as good as men at apologetics, or competing in sports.

But maybe they are statements making the case for why women shouldn’t be participating in certain things - if that’s the case, feel free to demonstrate.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:23 am 
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I found out that my spouse knew a Jenny Tonks at the MTC. The two had been Facebook friends, but it seems that I cannot locate her among my spouse's Facebook friends now. In any case, if this is the same person, this is more anecdotal evidence of how small the Mormon world is.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:13 am 
Holy Ghost

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Let me be the first to announce that the Interpreter Foundation recently rearranged the executive deck desk chairs. It seems that the Foundation has split its Executive Board into a Board of Trustees and a new Board of Advisors and created a new Management level. Starting from the top, the Foundation has a five-member Board of Trustees. All five are male. Three have PhDs and one has a J.D.

"Management" consists of two women, one a manager of peer review and one a manager of editorial services.

Eight men currently sit on the new Board of Advisors.

Nine men currently sit on the Board of Editors.

There are nine Contributing Editors (six men and three women).

Some notable names that have left Foundation leadership somewhat recently: William Hamblin, Ralph Hancock, John Butler, James Faulconer, and Donald Parry. Their service was greatly appreciated.


Last edited by Tom on Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:44 am 
Holy Ghost

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Peterson's entry continues:

Quote:
From time to time, certain folks like to criticize today’s Interpreter Foundation because its writers and its leadership are preponderantly male. And this is undeniably true. The critics’ insinuation is that, whether deliberately or out of sheer, unreflective, chauvinistic, patriarchal bias, we exclude women.

The subject has come up again lately because of a specific case involving a woman who apparently volunteered for a time to copyedit some of the manuscripts submitted to us. (We don’t have a “staff.” We have no brick and mortar office. We rely almost entirely upon volunteers.) She was, I’m told, a very good editor. Apparently, though, she backed away from volunteering for us, a few months ago, on the grounds that she was just too busy. And now she’s publicly announced that she’s left the Church. (So far as I can tell, her departure is connected to her stance on gay rights and perhaps on gender issues more broadly. I can’t really say; I don’t know her and have never met or, to the best of my knowledge, interacted with her.)


Ah, so I was right: DCP "clarifies" that she was merely a "copyeditor." (At least he admits that "gender issues" may have pushed her out; by his own admission "gender issues" are rampant within Mopologetics.)

Some thoughts: Dr. Peterson states that she "apparently volunteered for a time to copyedit some of the manuscripts submitted to us." Why the lack of certainty? He goes on to say that "[s]he was, I'm told, a very good editor." Here he manifests no personal familiarity with her work. He then reports that "[a]pparently, though, she backed away from volunteering for us, a few months ago, on the grounds that she was just too busy." Again, the distance is evident. (Given these statements, Dr. Peterson’s subsequent disclaimer that he doesn’t “know her and have never met or, to the best of my knowledge, interacted with her” does not surprise me.)

I might suggest that Dr. Peterson, as President of the Interpreter Foundation, make a stronger effort to establish and maintain relationships with those who do the real work at the Foundation. Going forward, he could, for example, call Mr. Wyatt more frequently than "every once in a while" to check how he's doing as Interpreter's editor. Or perhaps he, during a spare moment while enjoying a four-night deluxe Nile cruise, could pen a note to a volunteer editor to thank her for her excellent work. (On a personal note, I must confess that Dr. Peterson never reached out to me while I was serving as a volunteer copyeditor for Interpreter from 2012-2016.) Simple gestures such as these would go a long way in building staff morale and limiting attrition and defections.


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:54 pm 
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Quote:
I might suggest that Dr. Peterson, as President of the Interpreter Foundation, make a stronger effort to establish and maintain relationships with those who do the real work at the Foundation.


Tom, Danny paster boy doesn't have time. Too many trips on the tithe payers dime. He doesn't even have time to write an original speech for his fan club. He is so short of time he doesn't have time for an original thought so he has become a serial plagiarizer. Is it lack of time or is he just lazy? Maybe both.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:25 am 
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Tom wrote:
while I was serving as a volunteer copyeditor for Interpreter from 2012-2016

One man doing the work of ten.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:57 am 
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Tom wrote:
while I was serving as a volunteer copyeditor for Interpreter from 2012-2016

Tom, it's too bad that while you were serving as a volunteer copyeditor Peterson never once expressed his gratitude or gave you a single kind word of encouragement.

I bet you put in thousands of hours of thankless, menial hard work for the Interpreter. Peterson sounds like the worst boss in the entire world.

Do you think if Peterson would have treated you like you mattered or were part of the team would you still be there today?

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:57 am 
Holy Ghost

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Tom wrote:
while I was serving as a volunteer copyeditor for Interpreter from 2012-2016

Tom, it's too bad that while you were serving as a volunteer copyeditor Peterson never once expressed his gratitude or gave you a single kind word of encouragement.

I bet you put in thousands of hours of thankless, menial hard work for the Interpreter.

It was tens of thousands of hours, but no matter.

Quote:
Do you think if Peterson would have treated you like you mattered or were part of the team would you still be there today?

That's a really difficult, even painful, question to answer, Everybody Wang Chung, but I suspect so. My needs are quite small. Truth be told, if Dr. Peterson had returned from a trip to Egypt with a present of a wearable papier-mâché Anubis mask or a clod of authentic camel dung (روث الإبل) collected from Syalt Badran in Luxor, I'd likely be working for Interpreter today. واحسرتاه


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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Tom,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience working with Peterson. I've heard many similar stories from people who have had the misfortune of working for and/or with Peterson.

You leaving the Interpreter was definitely their loss.

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 Post subject: Re: Has an "Interpreter" Editor "Defected" from the Team?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:48 am 
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Yes, this is the Jennifer Easton Tonks that is being speculated about. I personally emailed her and you can see the exchange and the updates here. Lemmie found a post of hers recently on Reddit ExMormon, and I followed up by emailing her.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52235&p=1195547#p1195547

Tom, I didn't realize you were an editor at Interpreter also. Things get past me all too often. I am grateful you can share insights into it all. I always hasten to your posts when I see them.

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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