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 Post subject: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:14 pm 
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In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng

Seems like he’s claiming to have communicated directly with Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:33 pm 
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The apostles of Mormonism see Jesus in their mind's eye and the imaginative thoughts and feelings they have as they strive to draw closer in creating what they view as a definitive personal relationship with their imaginary Savior.

At no time has a resurrected Man appeared before Cook and said, "Feel the prints in my hands and feet". That has never happened and it never will. There is no real Jesus that appears to any of the apostles and prophets. It's all in their dreamy imagination as they take it to a level of consciousness in which to satisfy their whims that Jesus is actually communicating with them more so then the rest of the church. These special witnesses are suppose to have a special witness so they have to really close their eyes tight and work up a frenzy of thought in order to produce what might be considered hallucinogenic vision of their imaginary Jesus.

It's all a bunch of contrived nonsense. LDS apostles are so brainwashed that they are incapable of reasoning like normal people.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:35 pm 
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IHAQ,

You and I are communicating directly.

We have not seen each other.

So the answer to your opening post title is: no he did not claim to have seen Jesus.

The question you should have asked is"

"Did Cook mean to leave the impression with the faithful masses that he and other LDS leaders had seen Jesus, but without really saying it?"

The answer to that question is "yes".

Another instance where really old white guys want to make themselves look special in the eyes of their followers. So for those who attended conference could leave thinking they had one of the more spiritual moments in their lives, hearing an apostle talk about seeing Jesus, when if they had listened closely that is not what he said.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Elder Quentin L. Cook wrote:
In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance. But guidance is given in the Lord’s time, line upon line and precept upon precept, when “an omniscient Lord deliberately chooses to school us.” Guidance for the Church as a whole comes only to His prophet.

Or

In conclusion, please be assured that fathers who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the family receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. Fathers are grateful to have received such assistance. But guidance is given in the Lord’s time, line upon line and precept upon precept, when “an omniscient Lord deliberately chooses to school us.” Guidance for the family as a whole comes only to His patriarch.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Another instance where really old white guys want to make themselves look special in the eyes of their followers. So for those who attended conference could leave thinking they had one of the more spiritual moments in their lives, hearing an apostle talk about seeing Jesus, when if they had listened closely that is not what he said.

For Cook his own thoughts are direct communication with Jesus.


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:55 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
IHAQ,

You and I are communicating directly.

We have not seen each other.

So the answer to your opening post title is: no he did not claim to have seen Jesus.

The question you should have asked is"

"Did Cook mean to leave the impression with the faithful masses that he and other LDS leaders had seen Jesus, but without really saying it?"

The answer to that question is "yes".

Another instance where really old white guys want to make themselves look special in the eyes of their followers. So for those who attended conference could leave thinking they had one of the more spiritual moments in their lives, hearing an apostle talk about seeing Jesus, when if they had listened closely that is not what he said.

So if you stake your destiny on the words of people who can only make claims in doublespeak, redflag.


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:44 am 
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LDS Apostles: Just come out and say it directly if you have really seen Jesus. We all know its just a bunch of nonsense and this is why you use the secretive language.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:31 am 
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Exiled wrote:
LDS Apostles: Just come out and say it directly if you have really seen Jesus. We all know its just a bunch of nonsense and this is why you use the secretive language.

They won't. They will only mention in passing ever so lightly their sacred spiritual experiences they have with the Lord are of a personal matter and is not something they discuss in public. Thus, they will keep the membership in suspense. The apostles do not receive personal visitations from Jesus. Perhaps they have visitations or appearances of unseen spiritual beings (I've even had that) but certainly not the so-called resurrected Jesus of Christianity which is completely bogus.

In that vein, I think many people around the world of all cultures and of all nations have appearances of spiritual beings and simply attribute it to angels or guardian persons of another dimension. All this is reasonable. I've experienced it myself in company with a missionary companions while serving my mission in England, so I can't deny it. People see all kinds of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:58 am 
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I think we should give credit to Elder Cook for this new embroidery of an old theme--yet another way to suggest he has seen Jesus while leaving plausible deniability of the same.

This is so much better than the steady and penetrating look into the camera coupled with the wavering voice claiming, "I not only know the Savior lives, I know the Savior."

Because ya know, guidance coming directly from the Savior doesn't mean you actually see Jesus.

And Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were "senior leaders," and like, hello, they really did see Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:10 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Quote:
In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng

Seems like he’s claiming to have communicated directly with Jesus.

Hinckley told us 20+ years ago that the still small voice in their heads is what they call revelation. Cook is only claiming the voice that is not a voice but an impression in his mind is Jesus speaking to him.

Quote:
Q: And this belief in contemporary revelation and prophecy? As the prophet, tell us how that works. How do you receive divine revelation? What does it feel like?
A: [Gordon B. Hinckley] Let me say first that we have a great body of revelation, the vast majority of which came from the prophet Joseph Smith. We don't need much revelation. We need to pay more attention to the revelation we've already received. Now, if a problem should arise on which we don't have an answer, we pray about it, we may fast about it, and it comes. Quietly. Usually no voice of any kind, but just a perception in the mind. I liken it to Elijah's experience. When he sought the Lord, there was a great wind, and the Lord was not in the wind. And there was an earthquake, and the Lord was not in the earthquake. And a fire, and the Lord was not in the fire. But in a still, small voice. Now that's the way it works.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, Sunday Interview, April 13, 1997, by Don Lattin

“DR: But more than that, because you're leader of the Church. Do you have a special connection?
Gordon B. Hinckley: I have a special relationship in terms of the Church as an institution. Yes.
DR: And you receive...
Gordon B. Hinckley: For the entire Church
DR: You receive?
Gordon B. Hinckley: Now we don't need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.
DR: And this is a revelation?
Gordon B. Hinckley: This is a revelation.

Copied from the Mormonthink site for convenience:

http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/contrevelation.htm

Sure members get excited about stuff like this and start spouting off how the leaders all speak with Jesus, have one on ones with him, and see him regularly as they walk through the temple, or something. Sadly they don't even claim that stuff. They throw out silly little ambiguities like this and let the momentum carry.


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:37 am 
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If I were a prophet or an apostle I'd straight claim I talked to Jesus like a man would talk to another man. I'd make my voice of quivery like they do. I'd sing song my testimony, smack my lips, give dramatic pauses, and then turn on the water works.

People would LOVE that. I don't know why they don't say they've had that experience. They lie about virtually everything else, so why not this? Members want, nay, they NEED to feel like their leaders are passing worthiness interviews with Jesus.

They're kind of dumb for passing on this opportunity.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:16 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If I were a prophet or an apostle I'd straight claim I talked to Jesus like a man would talk to another man. I'd make my voice of quivery like they do. I'd sing song my testimony, smack my lips, give dramatic pauses, and then turn on the water works.

People would LOVE that. I don't know why they don't say they've had that experience. They lie about virtually everything else, so why not this? Members want, nay, they NEED to feel like their leaders are passing worthiness interviews with Jesus.

They're kind of dumb for passing on this opportunity.

- Doc


Prophet maybe, apostle no.

Can you imagine the pressure it would put on the rest of those old men for someone like Bednar to announce publicly that he spoke directly to Jesus?

And if you are the prophet and make such an announcement, you know the next guy after you is going to be asked if he also has spoken directly to Jesus.

By the way, my reasoning above tells us they do not speak to him directly. because if they did, there would be no such pressure.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If I were a prophet or an apostle I'd straight claim I talked to Jesus like a man would talk to another man. I'd make my voice of quivery like they do. I'd sing song my testimony, smack my lips, give dramatic pauses, and then turn on the water works.

People would LOVE that. I don't know why they don't say they've had that experience. They lie about virtually everything else, so why not this? Members want, nay, they NEED to feel like their leaders are passing worthiness interviews with Jesus.

They're kind of dumb for passing on this opportunity.

- Doc

Prophet maybe, apostle no.

Can you imagine the pressure it would put on the rest of those old men for someone like Bednar to announce publicly that he spoke directly to Jesus?

And if you are the prophet and make such an announcement, you know the next guy after you is going to be asked if he also has spoken directly to Jesus.

By the way, my reasoning above tells us they do not speak to him directly. because if they did, there would be no such pressure.

Another problem with coming out directly is that the outside world would want to know what was said and when we can expect wars and poverty to cease, you know, real issues. Then they would have to come up with more lies on top of lies as to why Jesus doesn't want to solve those problems and instead concerns himself with home teaching and minor organizational changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Behold, Quentin L. Cook, my son -- I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I am he who was lifted up and crucified for the sins of the world. Behold my presence and witness that I am alive forevermore. I command you to bear testimony to the church and to the whole world that you have seen me and know that I live.

Amen.


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:12 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
Another problem with coming out directly is that the outside world would want to know what was said and when we can expect wars and poverty to cease, you know, real issues. Then they would have to come up with more lies on top of lies as to why Jesus doesn't want to solve those problems and instead concerns himself with home teaching and minor organizational changes.

Exactly. If those clowns were actually speaking to Jesus face to face they would actually be learning something new, would they not? In such a case the church would need to know what is being said. A new revelation? A new prophecy, perhaps? Does not God still prophesy? Does the church still believe in the gift of prophecy or has prophecy ceased to exists?

And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Mormons shall say: Prophecy! Prophecy! We have got prophecies, and there cannot be any more Prophecy.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Believers love mystery, innuendo, and riddles to be solved with their fan fiction. Just pull a Joseph Smith, hash together some biblical sounding prose, and people will get all wobbly and wooey.

---------

Dear Brothers and Sisters *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause*,

Tonight *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause*, I, ah *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause*, I, *begin to cry*, come to testify to you *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause* *crying*, in the most powerful manner *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause*, I saw our Lord *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause* and Savior *warbly voice* *smacks lips* *dramatic pause* with my physical eyes.

Rinse and repeat for 45 minutes, throw in something about Jesus needing more money to move the work forward, and that the time is soon.

Straight. Up. Moormons would go straight home, drop their garmies, and make more baby future tithe-payers.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:33 pm 
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What if he did claim that? Why should we believe it? Why believe Smith's tales of Moroni, the First Vision, etc.? History is full of people making fantastic claims, sometimes even with "witnesses". Are they all "true"?

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Quentin is attempting to explain how close the Savior stood before him during the last visitation.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
What if he did claim that? Why should we believe it? Why believe Smith's tales of Moroni, the First Vision, etc.? History is full of people making fantastic claims, sometimes even with "witnesses". Are they all "true"?


The interesting thing to me is how apostles who make such statements are averse to actually lying about the subject but appear to have no compunction about misleading members with their words.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:43 pm 
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An Apostle’s Witness of Christ By Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Hunter claims his apostolic witness proves it's a FACT that Jesus is real.

Quote:
As an ordained Apostle and special witness of Christ, I give to you my solemn witness that Jesus Christ is in fact the Son of God.


Hunter now teases us with the idea that maybe Jesus actually appeared to him since after all, he's an apostle -- a special witness of invisible Jesus.

Quote:
The resurrected Lord has continued his ministry of salvation by appearing, from time to time, to mortal men chosen by God to be his witnesses, and by revealing his will through the Holy Ghost.


This is where Hunter slips up in his attempt to make the apostolic witness to include personal visitations from Jesus . He uses the word "IF" which only goes to show he's NOT really seen Jesus with his eyes but only felt him through the imaginary Spirit. Basically he's saying that others too can have the witness in the same way through the imaginary Spirit. Hence, it's all in the imagination.

Quote:
It is by the power of the Holy Ghost that I bear my witness. I know of Christ’s reality as if I had seen with my eyes and heard with my ears. I know also that the Holy Spirit will confirm the truthfulness of my witness in the hearts of all those who listen with an ear of faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Did Cook claim to have seen Jesus?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
If I were a prophet or an apostle I'd straight claim I talked to Jesus like a man would talk to another man. I'd make my voice of quivery like they do. I'd sing song my testimony, smack my lips, give dramatic pauses, and then turn on the water works.

People would LOVE that. I don't know why they don't say they've had that experience. They lie about virtually everything else, so why not this? Members want, nay, they NEED to feel like their leaders are passing worthiness interviews with Jesus.

They're kind of dumb for passing on this opportunity.

- Doc

Yeah...I agree..you and I could be so much more convincing...! I have heard people in testimony meeting that could really pull this off.


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