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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
but something like "I will now leave you to your favorite activity, that of furiously masturbating to your vast collection of Justin Bieber memorabilia"



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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
I'll point you to IHAQ's derail down here on the subject of Is MG a Troll?
Yes he is.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Hi Res Ipsa, thank for your continued willingness to explain moderation choices and rationale, it really does help quite a bit, especially the links you posted. There is a lot of history in there of which I was completely unaware-- but i am reading them religiously in the hope of becoming much more cognizant of the forum's history.

My question is with the bolded part of what I quoted below:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Although your first sentence asked what appear to be questions for clarification about the OP, you then abruptly shifted the topic to Philo's personal characteristics and your judgments about them. This was, as EAllusion mentioned, an "abrupt" shift. At that point, your post was the start of a potential derail. In a perfect world, folks would have just rolled their eyes, chuckled, or silently ignored the potential derail and stayed with the subject of the OP. Had they done so, I'd have likely left your post in place. But that didn't happen. The potential derailed led to three more posts (one of them your own) that converted the potential derail into an actual derail. At that point, I decided the derail was significant enough to warrant splitting it into a new thread. Looking at the derail, it was obvious where it started, so I chose your first post as the first post of the new thread. Then I had to decide which forum it belonged in. In my opinion, the "sting" of the post was a personal attack on Philo, so I put the new thread in Telestial.


Unless i am misreading, you are saying that the "personal attack on Philo" would NOT have been moved, if other posters had ignored it? Or are you saying that it ONLY rose to the level of "personal attack" on the basis of its qualification as the actual-not just potential- start of a derail, which again was dependent on whether others responded to it?

Either way, it seems that its status as a post that should be moved due to "personal attack" was dependent on others' response, which seems inconsistent with my understanding of the rules, so I am hoping you can give some clarification.


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Unless i am misreading, you are saying that the "personal attack on Philo" would NOT have been moved, if other posters had ignored it? Or are you saying that it ONLY rose to the level of "personal attack" on the basis of its qualification as the actual-not just potential- start of a derail, which again was dependent on whether others responded to it?

Either way, it seems that its status as a post that should be moved due to "personal attack" was dependent on others' response, which seems inconsistent with my understanding of the rules, so I am hoping you can give some clarification.


My interpretation is no harm, no foul.

I would think that in theory, personal attacks should be treated the same irrespective of how others react. But I would guess that making such judgements and taking the appropriate action requires some time and effort that a moderator might prefer to expend on other things.

Also, depending upon who is throwing the bombs, having a great insult ignored is punishment in its own right.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Analytics wrote:
My interpretation is no harm, no foul.

I would think that in theory, personal attacks should be treated the same irrespective of how others react. But I would guess that making such judgements and taking the appropriate action requires some time and effort that a moderator might prefer to expend on other things.

Also, depending upon who is throwing the bombs, having a great insult ignored is punishment in its own right.

i couldn't agree more, i voiced a similar opinion in the plagiarism thread in December:
Lemmie wrote:
In my opinion, although i am sure this was not her intent, some of JP's posts and the responses to her posts demonstrate quite clearly the thoroughly untenable nature of Peterson's excuses for his plagiarism. Even her attack on me where she stated that what she has really wanted to do for a long time was to say "F*** you" came in response to a detailed post about plagiarism that she clearly could not respond to. In my opinion, her attack on me is evidence that she had no way to argue Peterson's plagiarism is unintentional, and so she lashed out with a personal attack.

I also agree with your comment re: theory, however, and that is really my question about Res Ipsa's post. Irrespective of the human difficulties associated with the process, theoretically, if a post judged to be a "personal attack," will its treatment as a "personal attack" change depending on whether it is responded to or not?


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Hi Res Ipsa, thank for your continued willingness to explain moderation choices and rationale, it really does help quite a bit, especially the links you posted. There is a lot of history in there of which I was completely unaware-- but i am reading them religiously in the hope of becoming much more cognizant of the forum's history.

My question is with the bolded part of what I quoted below:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Although your first sentence asked what appear to be questions for clarification about the OP, you then abruptly shifted the topic to Philo's personal characteristics and your judgments about them. This was, as EAllusion mentioned, an "abrupt" shift. At that point, your post was the start of a potential derail. In a perfect world, folks would have just rolled their eyes, chuckled, or silently ignored the potential derail and stayed with the subject of the OP. Had they done so, I'd have likely left your post in place. But that didn't happen. The potential derailed led to three more posts (one of them your own) that converted the potential derail into an actual derail. At that point, I decided the derail was significant enough to warrant splitting it into a new thread. Looking at the derail, it was obvious where it started, so I chose your first post as the first post of the new thread. Then I had to decide which forum it belonged in. In my opinion, the "sting" of the post was a personal attack on Philo, so I put the new thread in Telestial.


Unless i am misreading, you are saying that the "personal attack on Philo" would NOT have been moved, if other posters had ignored it? Or are you saying that it ONLY rose to the level of "personal attack" on the basis of its qualification as the actual-not just potential- start of a derail, which again was dependent on whether others responded to it?

Either way, it seems that its status as a post that should be moved due to "personal attack" was dependent on others' response, which seems inconsistent with my understanding of the rules, so I am hoping you can give some clarification.


Hi Lemmie,

Good question. The short answer is "no." Whether a post is moderated based on "personal attack" does not depend on whether anyone responds to it.

The long answer is that, when moderating posts, I'm always aware that what I'm doing is interrupting other people's conversations. I try to do that as unobtrusively as possible. So, assuming no one had followed the potential derail, I would have likely classified the personal attack portion as within the range of throwing elbows that is permitted in terrestrial. Once I had decided to intrude because of the derail, I was already moving the post. So, being unobtrusive was already moot and the question was just which forum the post belonged in.

Does that answer your question? Does it make sense? I've been doing lots of splaining and feel like I'm getting a little rummy.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
Hi Lemmie,

Good question. The short answer is "no." Whether a post is moderated based on "personal attack" does not depend on whether anyone responds to it.

The long answer is that, when moderating posts, I'm always aware that what I'm doing is interrupting other people's conversations. I try to do that as unobtrusively as possible. So, assuming no one had followed the potential derail, I would have likely classified the personal attack portion as within the range of throwing elbows that is permitted in terrestrial. Once I had decided to intrude because of the derail, I was already moving the post. So, being unobtrusive was already moot and the question was just which forum the post belonged in.

Does that answer your question? Does it make sense? I've been doing lots of splaining and feel like I'm getting a little rummy.

Thank you, yes it does. I would only ask that moderators consider that, from a reader's standpoint, a post that would qualify as a personal attack has already interrupted the conversation, whether it is described as such in other's posts or not. A mod's removal of such a personal attack is not seen a further disruption, but rather as a restoration of the conversation. In that sense, moderators are not seen, at least by me, as intruding on a conversation.

(On a different note, I especially like your analogy of moderation being like the janitor sorting out the recyclables that people are gauche enough to toss in with everything else. That was genius!)


Last edited by Lemmie on Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Thanks, Lemmie. I'll keep your point on how a personal attack interrupts in mind. I really appreciate the feedback.

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 Post subject: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Jersey Girl,

Perhaps you are making WAY TOO MUCH of this?

How this all reads to me?

Jersey Girl wrote:
walls of text ....

Kerry, you are such a d__a__, how come you can't follow what I'm saying and so expert at and demanding to teach you?

.... more walls of text


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:23 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Jersey Girl,

Perhaps you are making WAY TOO MUCH of this?

How this all reads to me?

Jersey Girl wrote:
walls of text ....

Kerry, you are such a d__a__, how come you can't follow what I'm saying and so expert at and demanding to teach you?

.... more walls of text

Interesting take, RS.

How this all reads to me?

Our very confident, energetic and new President of Club Atheist started another thread making an inquiry to believers. One believer in particular is named in the first post. Unfortunately for this particular believer that was named in the inquiry, she gave the OP author the benefit of the doubt and assumed that the inquiry was a sincere legit invitation to engage. Because of this she proceeded by spending an enormous amount of effort and time in the thread trying to offer her perspective - as a believer - to the very person who asked for it.

Unfortunately, this particular believer didn't know at the time that there really wasn't a sincere inquiry at all - Nor was there any intention or desire to discuss anything with believers . . . perhaps she knows now. :sad:

Then, you, our relatively new but just as energetic VP of Club Atheist decided to to come along and show your support to the club by sharing how it all reads to you.

All in all - another thread failure that brought forth very little value - minimal thought - and lost opportunity to all.

Peace,
Ceeboo


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Then, you, our relatively new but just as energetic VP of Club Atheist decided to to come along and show your support to the club by sharing how it all reads to you.


Perhaps you missed the 4th post in the thread, Kerry's first response to Jersey Girl which seemed to explain the reason why she was mentioned and appeared to finalize any need for further discussion.

Philo Sofee wrote:
Oh, I was just saying the article said what you have said before that rather than wait around for God to pull a miracle out his cloud, we could be doing a lot more ourselves for ourselves.


My objection to Jersey Girl's posting has nothing to do with "Club Atheist" (your fake love of fellow man is showing through with this passive aggressive statement). It has to do with Jersey Girl's relentless chastisement of Kerry and her know-it-all condescending attitude towards him.

The following endless wall-of-text (off topic) responses only further contribute to the annoyance.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:38 pm 
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FYI I've had you on ignore since the last time you decided to try to engage me. That's not a rejection of you as a person. It doesn't mean that I don't think you're a good guy at heart or that you don't have strengths, it just means that I think that attempts to communicate with you often fall short because it's difficult for you to stay on point. I don't think you always recognize where and what the point is. Some folks really care about that.

Of course that's how it all reads to you. I expect nothing more from you. You often try to get my attention by trying to bait me or provoke me, when you're not the person I'm interested in engaging, and when you don't get that attention you pout. Okay, so you have my attention now and only because Ceebs copied your remarks. Thanks, Ceebs. I'll try to find a way to pay you back for that. :mrgreen:

Right now it looks like you think that you need to act as Kerry's cheer leader. What makes you think he needs one? He's pretty darn good at fending for himself just like I am when he wants to, has time to or puts his mind to it. We both are. Kerry know exactly what he's getting into on these boards, he's not exactly a novice. If it all goes to hell, then that's what it does, not that anyone likes it. Folks get distracted. Sometimes our communication isn't as complete as we'd like it to be. People get frustrated. If that were the end of the world, we wouldn't be on this thread.

Kerry shows you that he knows me when he wrote the following a while back.

Jersey Girl wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:

Aw thank ya, that's very kind. Now knock it off and lets get to arguing - LOL! Kidding of course......


Be careful what you wish for.
;-)


Philo Sofee wrote:
Ah yes! The girl that can out-argue Jesus himself! (that is a compliment!)


In a recent post on that other train wreck of a thread, he made these remarks.

Quote:
Anyway, yeah Jersey Girl is one of those kinds of friends that many will never have. Why I do, I have no idea, but I love that lil gal. She is one of the most unique people I have ever been blessed to know, and that isn't me just saying this to sooth her. We have a truly superb thing here as friends that I wouldn't trade for all the atheists in the world. And I think she is aware of that also.


I made follow up comments to that on the thread in question. If you want to see what they were, you'll have to go find them yourself. But you won't. Because you really don't give a damn and what you see as me making way too much of something is evidence that you don't recognize someone who cares when you see her. Or him.

Hint: He's not my trophy like he is yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:44 pm 
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good god, more off topic, wall of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
your fake love of fellow man is showing through with this passive aggressive statement

What's it been Rock - 10 plus years? I don't think that I could have ever even imagined reading this from you.


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 Post subject: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Only Help You
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:58 pm 
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This must be Jersey Girl's husband's theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUuDPNbkJk


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
RockSlider wrote:
your fake love of fellow man is showing through with this passive aggressive statement

What's it been Rock - 10 plus years? I don't think that I could have ever even imagined reading this from you.



Hmm, my thoughts exactly on your passive aggressive statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:06 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
This must be Jersey Girl's husband's theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUuDPNbkJk


Congrats you're off ignore and you're not getting a chance to delete your above because I'm framing the ____ out of it to demonstrate how low a desperate man is willing to go.

I can't think of a single time when I lowered myself to use your wife as a tool on this board. Can you? Quite the contrary, I have never addressed or made mention of your wife or your family, much less your relationship with them with anything but honoring comments particularly my comments to you behind the scenes.

Just who the ____ do you think you are dragging someone's family member into a thread like this? FYI folks who can hold their intellectual own in discussion never need to resort to such below the belt crap behavior.

And you?

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Mods if you are reading here please do NOT remove that post of Rock's from this thread. Don't edit a bloody thing there. Since it was made about me, I want it to sit here for all the world to see and so I never forget how low life and ____ up he's willing to get.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Congrats you're off ignore ...


But wait, Ceeboo did not quote that? Does this mean you never had me on ignore? Does this mean you lied about that?

Oh my ...


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Dear low life who can't read or think his way out of a paper bag and doesn't know how the ignore feature works even though he served as moderator on this board. People who are able to hold their intellectual own, do not resort to knuckle dragging bottom of the barrel low ball remarks about a person's family on a discussion board. Not only is it against the rules, it's considered to be (by people with actual brains) to be bad form. Anti intellectual sniveling and base cowards whose so-called intellect (which is rivaled only by that of small manual appliances or hand tools such can openers, screw drivers, mallets, and other such inanimate objects like rocks, bricks, piles of dirt, with no brain at all) choose to behave like reactive tantruming toddlers who believe that spitting and kicking are a sign of strength resort to that kind of tactic because they have not a damn thing else to fight with when they've painted themselves into a corner and the only way they see out is to go as low as it gets.

Here's your fatal ____ up once again.

Quote:

RockSlider
Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:58 pm
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This must be Jersey Girl's husband's theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUuDPNbkJk


I don't think that's the last time you're going to see that post.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Then transfer the entire thread to Telestial. That should work.

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