you win, Bernie!

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subgenius
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you win, Bernie!

Post by subgenius »

just kidding

Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage.

(aka how to kill your campaign in one easy step)

does this news all but kill Bernie's waning mainstream political career?
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EAllusion
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by EAllusion »

Does cutting the hours of the people who run field offices down approximately a few hours a week end his campaign? I don't know. Why don't you explain to us why that kills a campaign? How crucial is the productivity at that position for those few hours to the success of a campaign?

Bernie was probably gonna lose because math, but I'd love to hear more about your analysis here.

DoubtingThomas
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:Bernie was probably gonna lose because math.


Yes, but he still has a better chance than the California and Massachusetts senators. According to the national RCP Average he is still in second place.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6730.html

Polls in the early states (Iowa and New Hampshire) may be underestimating Bernie Sanders. Last time Sanders was losing by four points in the RCP average in Iowa, but ending up in a virtual tie.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -3195.html

Same in New Hampshire, he was leading by 13 points (RCP average), but ended up winning by 22 points.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -3351.html

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subgenius
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by subgenius »

EAllusion wrote:Does cutting the hours of the people who run field offices down approximately a few hours a week end his campaign? I don't know. Why don't you explain to us why that kills a campaign? How crucial is the productivity at that position for those few hours to the success of a campaign?

Bernie was probably gonna lose because math, but I'd love to hear more about your analysis here.

No, you hit it on the head for all fronts... "because math"
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent

EAllusion
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by EAllusion »

subgenius wrote:
EAllusion wrote:Does cutting the hours of the people who run field offices down approximately a few hours a week end his campaign? I don't know. Why don't you explain to us why that kills a campaign? How crucial is the productivity at that position for those few hours to the success of a campaign?

Bernie was probably gonna lose because math, but I'd love to hear more about your analysis here.

No, you hit it on the head for all fronts... "because math"


Yeah, jokes are fun.

Bernie is probably going to lose because no one Democratic candidate has enough likelihood of winning at this juncture to be probable to win. Bernie's overall positioning in polls and prediction markets suggests that he has less than a 25% to win, so it is safe to proclaim him as probably losing irrespective of any political development at this point.

Since you are claiming that Bernie's agreement to reduce his field staff's hours slightly is the death knell for his campaign, as if this is the specific reason why he can be written off, deserves an explanation. This isn't going to come, of course, because you have no clue what you are talking about.

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subgenius
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by subgenius »

EAllusion wrote:
Yeah, jokes are fun.


because there is truth in jokes, that is what makes them fun.
But the obvious laugh here is how Bernie implemented a wage that was unsustainable and required him to decrease production. It is an application of one of his bedrock principles which his own market could not sustain. Its akin to a pro NRA candidate shooting himself in the foot.
dead.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent

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canpakes
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
Yeah, jokes are fun.


because there is truth in jokes, that is what makes them fun.
But the obvious laugh here is how Bernie implemented a wage that was unsustainable and required him to decrease production. It is an application of one of his bedrock principles which his own market could not sustain. Its akin to a pro NRA candidate shooting himself in the foot.
dead.

There isn’t an effect here of that wage level forcing a ‘decrease in productivity’. The issue is that the hours worked, at current contract levels, work out to more than $15 per hour for a 40 hour week but posted hours by some of the campaign workers are at 60 hours per week. Employees hours are now limited above the 40/week level to not cause the hourly pay level to decrease below $15 per hour. This isn’t difficult to understand; you’re just not presenting the information honestly.

On Thursday evening, The Washington Post reported that some members of Sanders' campaign have been lobbying to raise their wages. Field organizers say they make a salary of $36,000 annually but work 60 hours per week, which is an average of $13 per hour.

Unionized workers planned to send a letter to campaign manager Faiz Shakir which read that "many field staffers are barely managing to survive financially, which is severely impacting our team's productivity and morale." Some employees, they said, had even left the campaign as a result of the low pay.

In a statement provided to Newsweek, Shakir said that the campaign has been in discussions about pay structure changes with the United Food & Commercial Workers Local 400, the union representing the organizers.

"We look forward to continuing those discussions and obviously are disappointed that some individuals decided to damage the integrity of these efforts before they were concluded," Shakir said. "As these discussions continue, we are limiting hours so no employee is receiving less than $15 for any hours worked."

Sanders' 2020 campaign was the first to unionize in March 2019. The union then made an agreement with the campaign that field workers were to be paid $36,000 annually. The contract, which began on May 2, also provides platinum level health care, paid vacation, sick leave and other benefits.

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honorentheos
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by honorentheos »

The incident makes for an interesting peek into how difficult the fair pay issue is in the US. Sanders' unionized campaign staff had a union negotiate their annual salary, benefits and terms of work. The union had a lot of control and input over the terms of their employment, far beyond just selling their labor for the lowest acceptable price. As salary employees they have different conditions than hourly employees which are usually determined by the laws of whichever state they work in so how their hours above 40/week are dealt with is probably a condition of their contract as well as varying slightly depending on the state they work in.

Sanders did things right at the front end and chose a process that gave up his leverage as the employer to simply seek the best price for his labor needs. His field staff took a fairly progressive starting position and leveraged Sanders' public support for fair pay in a bid to increase their pay beyond what they had already negotiated. It makes Sanders look bad on the surface, and them look really bad when one goes past the headline. It's the sort of behavior that leads companies to resist unions.
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DoubtingThomas
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by DoubtingThomas »

The most recent poll has Sanders winning in California, but of course CNN won't report it.

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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by Brackite »

DoubtingThomas wrote:The most recent poll has Sanders winning in California, but of course CNN won't report it.


While Sanders may have been able to defeat Trump in 2016, he won't be able to defeat Trump in 2020. He is now too old and out of the Democratic candidates, Sanders Polls the worst against Trump from Arizona. Link
Democrats will likely need to win Arizona if they want to win the 2020 Presidential election.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter

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moksha
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by moksha »

Brackite wrote:Sanders Polls the worst against Trump from Arizona. Link
Democrats will likely need to win Arizona if they want to win the 2020 Presidential election.

It would be nice if the Democrats picked someone who is the complete opposite of Trump: Smart, competent, and honest. That would be Buttigieg.

Can you imagine a debate between those two? Concise answers with step by step reasoning vs disjointed rambling lies?
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subgenius
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by subgenius »

moksha wrote:
Brackite wrote:Sanders Polls the worst against Trump from Arizona. Link
Democrats will likely need to win Arizona if they want to win the 2020 Presidential election.

It would be nice if the Democrats picked someone who is the complete opposite of Trump: Smart, competent, and honest. That would be Buttigieg.

Can you imagine a debate between those two? Concise answers with step by step reasoning vs disjointed rambling lies?

Yes, Buttgieg, the pillow-muncher whose only campaign accomplishment is insisting that he is a better Christian than Christians who do not support him. Talk about tone deaf.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent

Brackite
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by Brackite »

I would vote for Buttigieg.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter

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subgenius
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by subgenius »

Brackite wrote:I would vote for Buttigieg.

And I would not...so you got that going for ya.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent

DoubtingThomas
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by DoubtingThomas »

Brackite wrote:While Sanders may have been able to defeat Trump in 2016, he won't be able to defeat Trump in 2020. He is now too old and out of the Democratic candidates, Sanders Polls the worst against Trump from Arizona. Link
Democrats will likely need to win Arizona if they want to win the 2020 Presidential election.


I suspect Sanders is biologically younger than Trump. You cherry-picked Arizona. Have you looked at other swing states?

I do have some concerns about Sanders, but there is no doubt that the media keeps treating him very unfairly.
Last edited by DoubtingThomas on Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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moksha
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by moksha »

subgenius wrote:And I would not...so you got that going for ya.

You want the Putin-Trump ticket.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

subgenius wrote:Yes, Buttgieg, the pillow-muncher whose only campaign accomplishment is insisting that he is a better Christian than Christians who do not support him. Talk about tone deaf.


Image

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In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

EAllusion
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by EAllusion »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
subgenius wrote:Yes, Buttgieg, the pillow-muncher whose only campaign accomplishment is insisting that he is a better Christian than Christians who do not support him. Talk about tone deaf.


Image

- Doc

You'r probably aware, but he's using it as a homophobic slur. It's a term slightly more esoteric than just calling him a butt-pirate.

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canpakes
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by canpakes »

If anything can be counted on, it's sub's fear and loathing of all things deviating from straight missionary heterosexuality, unless he's deciding to cross-dress for the office Halloween party.

DoubtingThomas
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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by DoubtingThomas »

General Election: Trump vs. Buttigieg
RCP Average 12/4 - 12/17 Trump +1.2
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6872.html

Pathetic!

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Re: you win, Bernie!

Post by DoubtingThomas »

I do like Yang, but he will not win the nomination.

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