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 Post subject: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:52 am 
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Apparently, he tipped Iran to some fake news that Trump was sending B-52's on the night they mistakenly thought US military was going to bomb them in response to the rocket attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

Hannity said *all the things* you'd say if you wanted to make battery captains terrified and trigger-happy. He implied an airstrike was *imminent*. He *often* gets his info from Trump—whose info is *often* false. And U.S. officials now say a battery *shot down an airliner*.

Hannity's a Trump adviser who talks to Trump near-daily.
Trump has a history of giving out nonpublic operational info.
Trump's rhetoric on Iran was intended to scare.
Hannity falsely said B-52s were soon to strike Iran.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:35 pm 
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Are you suggesting Iranian officials are monitoring Hannity for intel, relayed his comments back to Iran, and they shot down the airliner as a result?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:49 pm 
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Of course they were. Do you really think they wouldn't be watching US media at that time, especially when it is a well known fact that the Sean Hannity is Trump's right hand man? I'm stunned that this isn't getting the attention it deserves. Dozens of Canadian families should be suing FOX news for gross negligence and Hannity should be fired immediately. I don't know why it is hard to see why it is dangerous to be spewing fake news such as this during war time. The "fog of war" is what Trump created by assassinating Solemani and Hannity exacerbated the problem with his fake news about imminent bombing runs by US bombers.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:12 pm 
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Image

The internet says there are SAM sites 3.5 km away from the crash site.

Edit: The yellow airplane is where the plane crashed, so it was hit before that I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:00 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Are you suggesting Iranian officials are monitoring Hannity for intel, relayed his comments back to Iran, and they shot down the airliner as a result?

- Doc

This would make sense since they know that Trump monitors Hannity and the two of them have a bedroom phone call every night.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:57 pm 
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I'm not buying this specific instance - at least not without a lot more evidence - but I also think it would be silly for foreign countries interested in US policy to not have a close watch on Fox News, and especially Sean Hannity in particular, given how influential it is over Trump's decision making process such as it is. Iran not having some people flagged for watching and understanding the Fox-verse right now would be irresponsible.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:58 pm 
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Iran probably was jumpy about its airspace for reasons you don't need Sean Hannity to understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:02 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
I'm not buying this specific instance - at least not without a lot more evidence...

Not sure how we could recover the precise targeting coordinates Hannity transmitted to the Iranians.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:12 pm 
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And now we have just heard that Iran state TV has admitted that Iranian forces shot down the plane 'accidentally'.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:56 pm 
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If you're talking about brain-deaths, Sean is responsible for a lot more than 174.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:43 pm 
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Icarus wrote:
Apparently, he tipped Iran to some fake news that Trump was sending B-52's on the night they mistakenly thought US military was going to bomb them in response to the rocket attacks.

....

What a stupid OP. But your logic for Iran confusing a single passenger airliner for a fleet of B52s sure does support a devastating WW3 theory...but to clarify, will WW3 be breaking out before or after the long-before-mentioned North Korea nuclear holocaust?

You guys have put forth soooooooooooo many tragic end-of-the-world-because-of-mean-orange-man predictions that i have lost track of the order.
TIA

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:44 pm 
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moksha wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
I'm not buying this specific instance - at least not without a lot more evidence...

Not sure how we could recover the precise targeting coordinates Hannity transmitted to the Iranians.

was "precision" anywhere near the idea in the OP?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:52 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Icarus wrote:
Apparently, he tipped Iran to some fake news that Trump was sending B-52's on the night they mistakenly thought US military was going to bomb them in response to the rocket attacks.

....

What a stupid OP. But your logic for Iran confusing a single passenger airliner for a fleet of B52s sure does support a devastating WW3 theory...but to clarify, will WW3 be breaking out before or after the long-before-mentioned North Korea nuclear holocaust?

You guys have put forth soooooooooooo many tragic end-of-the-world-because-of-mean-orange-man predictions that i have lost track of the order.
TIA


Speaking of failed predictions, remember how you responded to Trump betraying the Kurds by arguing he's just a peacenik trying to get the US out of foreign military entanglments?

1) Lol.

2) Given the the US is threatening Iraq, a sovereign nation hosting the US, if it democratically decides to ask the US to leave, have you considered showing the US government your posts?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:06 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Icarus wrote:
Apparently, he tipped Iran to some fake news that Trump was sending B-52's on the night they mistakenly thought US military was going to bomb them in response to the rocket attacks.

....

What a stupid OP. But your logic for Iran confusing a single passenger airliner for a fleet of B52s sure does support a devastating WW3 theory...but to clarify, will WW3 be breaking out before or after the long-before-mentioned North Korea nuclear holocaust?

You guys have put forth soooooooooooo many tragic end-of-the-world-because-of-mean-orange-man predictions that i have lost track of the order.
TIA


By your logic there is never any confusion when military shoots down passenger jets. Which means we intentionally shot down Iranian commercial airliner along with their 300 non-combatant passengers back in the 80's.

If our military can shoot down a commercial airliner by accident then why do you think it is illogical for Iran to do the same thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:10 pm 
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To be fair, if Hannity was able to convince the Iranians to shoot down a passenger jet out of confusion and amped up nerves anticipating a US counter-strike, and in so doing turned global opinion against them in the middle of this crisis, then that was a master stroke of counter-intelligence. Not to be casual about the loss of life involved, the outcome of that accidental shooting probably ends up being a meaningful positive for the US going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:08 pm 
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I guess where I’m confused is that there’s an airport RIGHT THERE. If the video is to be believed, the airplane was ascending away from the airport, which you’d totally see on radar, so I have no idea why a SAM site cdr would authorize a shot. 4/chan conspiratards are claiming there were informants on the flight who were leaving the country, but, you know, 4/chan. I guess where I’m hung up is why in the world do you shoot down a single aircraft clearly taking off from an airport?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:18 pm 
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honorentheos wrote:
To be fair, if Hannity was able to convince the Iranians to shoot down a passenger jet out of confusion and amped up nerves anticipating a US counter-strike, and in so doing turned global opinion against them in the middle of this crisis, then that was a master stroke of counter-intelligence. Not to be casual about the loss of life involved, the outcome of that accidental shooting probably ends up being a meaningful positive for the US going forward.


Has global opinion turned against them? I'm genuinely asking if there was any kind of shift. The Canadians I know are livid with the US for setting up the chain of events that caused this, but I don't regard that as representative. Do you have evidence of a public opinion shift?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Still amazed that the biased Liberal media hasn't even touched on this or even pressed on the obvious fact that 176 people are dead because of a volatile situation created by Trump. You know, the situation which began with him arbitrarily assassinating someone, just before lying several times about a non-existent imminent threat. A US President cannot just go assassinating people without them posing an imminent threat, meaning what he did was illegal. But since when does the rule of law mean anything to Trump or his cult of sycophants.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:22 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
To be fair, if Hannity was able to convince the Iranians to shoot down a passenger jet out of confusion and amped up nerves anticipating a US counter-strike, and in so doing turned global opinion against them in the middle of this crisis, then that was a master stroke of counter-intelligence. Not to be casual about the loss of life involved, the outcome of that accidental shooting probably ends up being a meaningful positive for the US going forward.


Has global opinion turned against them? I'm genuinely asking if there was any kind of shift. The Canadians I know are livid with the US for setting up the chain of events that caused this, but I don't regard that as representative. Do you have evidence of a public opinion shift?


Iran Faces Tough Questions At Home And Abroad After It Admits To Downing Plane

Iran initially denied that a missile downed the Ukrainian airliner for days.


Quote:
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran’s acknowledgement that it shot down a Ukrainian airliner, killing 176 people, raises new challenges for the Islamic Republic both externally amid tensions with the U.S. and internally as it deals with growing discontent from its people.

The country did itself no favors by having its air-crash investigators, government officials and diplomats deny for days that a missile downed the flight, though a commander said Saturday that he had raised that possibility to his superiors as early as Wednesday, the day of the crash.

While its paramilitary Revolutionary Guard took responsibility, the same commander claimed it warned Tehran to close off its airspace amid fears of U.S. retaliation over Iran launching ballistic missiles at Iraqi bases housing U.S. forces. That retaliation never came, but the worries proved to be enough to allegedly scare a missile battery into opening fire on the Boeing 737 operated by Ukrainian International Airlines.

Wider tensions between Iran and the U.S., inflamed after Iran’s top general was killed in Iraq by a U.S. drone strike Jan. 3, have for the moment calmed. However, President Donald Trump vowed to impose new sanctions on Tehran and on Friday, his administration targeted Iran’s metals industry, a major employer. Meanwhile, thousands of additional U.S. forces remain in the Mideast atop of the network of American bases surrounding Iran, despite Tehran’s demands the U.S. leave the region.

That sets the stage for Iran’s further steps away from its 2015 nuclear deal with world powers, an accord Trump unilaterally withdrew the U.S. from in May 2018 over his concerns it didn’t go far enough in restraining Tehran. Iran said after the targeted killing of Gen. Qassem Soleimani that it would no longer abide by any of its limits, while saying United Nations inspectors could continue their work.

Further steps could spark an Israeli strike if it feels Iran is close to developing a nuclear weapon, something Tehran denies it wants but the West fears could happen.

Iran through Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has sought to offer legal justifications for its decisions following Soleimani’s death, including missile strikes on Iraqi bases housing U.S. troops that caused no casualties. Now the country must contend with repercussions of its officials’ wrongheaded denials in the days after the plane crash.

“There has been no missile launched in that area at that time,” said Hamid Baeidinejad, Iranian ambassador to the United Kingdom, in an interview Friday with Sky News, calling further questions on the allegation “absolutely unacceptable.”

Then the story changed early Saturday morning, with Iran’s general staff of its armed forces saying the flight had been “targeted unintentionally due to human error.”

Baeidinejad later apologized on Twitter.

“In my statement yesterday to the UK media, I conveyed the official findings of responsible authorities in my country that missile could not be fired and hit the Ukrainian plane at that period of time,” he wrote. “I ... regret for conveying such wrong findings.”

Ultimately, the Guard answers solely to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. But Khamenei himself only Saturday acknowledged the missile strike, citing the report by Iran’s conventional armed forces.

Yet even the army statement itself raises questions, as it said the flight moved “very close to a sensitive military spot” belonging to the Guard.

“The altitude and the direction of the flight’s movement were like an enemy target, so the aircraft was targeted unintentionally due to human error,” the statement read.

That’s despite flight data for every Ukrainian International Airlines flight out of Tehran since early November show Wednesday’s flight followed a similar altitude and flight path, according to flight-tracking website FlightRadar24. Planes leaving Imam Khomeini airport routinely take off going west as the Ukrainian flight did.

Nine other flights flew out of the airport early Wednesday morning before the Ukrainian airliner as well without encountering trouble. The Guard claims it asked Iranian authorities to shut down airspace in Tehran amid the ballistic missile strikes and fears of reprisals, but nothing happened.

Analysts have questioned the decision not to close Tehran’s airspace in the days after the shootdown.

“The first thing a country should do in case of escalation of the military conflict is to close the sky for civilian flights,” said retired Ukrainian Gen. Ihor Romanenko, a military analyst. “But this entails serious financial losses, fines and forfeits, therefore a cynical approach prevailed in Iran.”

The Guard has wide autonomy in Iran. It prides itself on its aggressive posture, whether having tense encounters with the U.S. Navy in the Persian Gulf or shooting down a U.S. military surveillance drone last summer. Concerns about that aggression saw the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration reissue a warning about flying over Iran just days before the shootdown, warning that “misidentification” remained a risk.

That Iran’s conventional military — long limited in the years since the 1979 Islamic Revolution by purges and obsolete equipment — issued the report shows the rivalries between the services. The Guard’s own position could be challenged, though it maintains a strong grip on Iran’s security and economic sectors.

The U.S. did not retaliate the night of the ballistic missile strikes on Iraqi bases housing U.S. troops. However, that has not stopped Iranian officials like Zarif and others who sought to try to blame “U.S. adventurism” for Iran shooting down the airplane.

That may not fly with the Iranian public, already battered by economic sanctions and openly protesting in recent protests. Saturday night, hundreds gathered at universities in Tehran to protest the government’s late acknowledgement of the plane being shot down. They demanded officials involved in the missile attack be removed from their positions and tried. Police broke up the demonstrations.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:46 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
To be fair, if Hannity was able to convince the Iranians to shoot down a passenger jet out of confusion and amped up nerves anticipating a US counter-strike, and in so doing turned global opinion against them in the middle of this crisis, then that was a master stroke of counter-intelligence. Not to be casual about the loss of life involved, the outcome of that accidental shooting probably ends up being a meaningful positive for the US going forward.


Has global opinion turned against them? I'm genuinely asking if there was any kind of shift. The Canadians I know are livid with the US for setting up the chain of events that caused this, but I don't regard that as representative. Do you have evidence of a public opinion shift?

Internal protests in Iran is the leading story on Al Jazeera right now.

https://www.aljazeera.com/

It's caused Russian news agencies to shift focus away from criticism of the US for killing Soleimani to defending their ally, in part by blaming Ukraine for the accident. Western allies concerned with seeing tensions relieved have turned to calling for Iran to account for the killing of civilians. It exposed a riff between the elite Iranian Revolutionary Guard and the conventional military. It was about as bad a play as Iran could have made at a time they seemed to have won the global opinion game by not targeting US troops with their missile strikes. They were manuevering pretty well up to that, and it was a serious mistake. Giving Hannity credit for it seems...well. Yes, it's a tragedy. But in the game of thrones that is global politics it's a positive event for the US.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Sean Hannity Responsible for 174 deaths?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Here's a crazy scenario to chew on. Suppose that the outcome of the accidental shooting down of the civilian airliner is actual reform of some kind in Iran due to popular uprising that the Republican Guard are weakened in putting down because they perpetrated the event leading to the protests. The pending Iranian elections turn from a likely radical victory to a win for the moderates. It also leads to ____ Muslims in Iraq distance themselves from Iran just as it looked probable they were firmly consolidating a pro-Iran coalition. Iraqi Kurds and Sunnis are able to find common ground with the ____ that leaves the US in Iraq as welcomed partners again. The Saudis, sitting on the sidelines watching their regional foe eat crow, leverage the moment in some way that further consolidates regional influence and power for MBS. Putin and Erdogan, already primed to take the spotlight in the region as the supposed adults seeking to broker peace in Libya, come out looking like the global good guys. That's three strong authoritarian leaders essentially climbing over the pile of mistakes to the top of the heap.

Now, pivot to the US 2020 election. Turn all of the above into campaign messages and ads. Strong economy? Turned out in some peoples eyes at least, the Iran nuclear deal wasn't as effective in keeping the world safe as blowing up one of their high level commanders? Want to place bets under those circumstances how likely Bernie or Warren would be in winning the election? I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I'm just pointing out how serious the accidental shooting of a civilian airliner could prove in the calculus here. That's an extreme outcome, but even the more realistic ones still side in Trump's favor more so than against him, IMO. The killing of Soleimani was proving a major issue for him that this accident flipped on its head. Trump haters will blame Trump for the accident in the same way Russians are blaming Ukraine right now. But that's just noting people who have an immoveable opinion are interpreting events to fit their opinions and nothing more. History only knows how it will actually play out, but this isn't just one more strike against Trump. He has to been pretty happy it happened, or those around him who actually know things ought to be anyway. As unpleasant as that sounds, all tragedies are tragedies but that doesn't mean events don't end up working in a direction that ends up being to someone's advantage.

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