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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:13 pm 
God

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Doc,

Are you seriously asking me to put any other context into "help' and "price" than murder?

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:34 pm 
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It is possible that guy was sending those texts because he's a simple nut job looking for attention from a guy he thought had the President's ear.

If it's any consolation, milkwut, I'm curious what those texts mean myself. He sounds like a fruitcake to me. I'd be more worried about them if more substance was coming back from Parnas.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:38 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Doc,

Are you seriously asking me to put any other context into "help' and "price" than murder?

mikwut


You’re seeing something I’m not. I’d like you to tell me what you think those texts mean in context.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:40 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Doc,

Are you seriously asking me to put any other context into "help' and "price" than murder?

mikwut


Were they offering to quote them a price to renovate Yovanovitch's apartment? Obviously it's still early in this investigation, and there isn't enough there to suggest these idiots were planning a hit, but can you come up with an innocent explanation for why Robert Hyde was reporting Yovanovitch's movements and security detail to Lev Parnas, and why he told Parnas he had guys waiting for instructions who wanted to know what was in it for them? What is this "anything" that you can buy with money in Ukraine? It's clearly not something you would normally be able to buy with money. Are you suggesting that anyone who thinks Hyde, Parnas, and Hyde's "guys" might have been up to no good are conspiracy theorists on the same level as 9/11 truthers? Really? The best defense for this is what Perfume suggests - Hyde is a lone nutjob wannabe super spy pretending to have connections to hitmen. He might be the G. Gordon Liddy of Stupid Watergate.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 pm 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
He sounds like a fruitcake to me. I'd be more worried about them if more substance was coming back from Parnas.


Based on the pictures and posts I've seen, he's a bigger douchebag than Donald Trump, Donald Trump Jr., and Eric Trump combined.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:44 pm 
God

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Doc,

I don't know what they exactly mean. I have enough criminal defense experience to know that the lack of context is meaningful, how they were obtained and given to the press had THAT leading context in mind.

But they could mean a lot of things, Ukraine is known for its corruption it could be a joke in that context where we are missing the rest of the exchanges where they were light or suppose to funny. It could be they could plant something in the embassy for a price. They could get in and get copies of documents they we saying were in there. They could plant bugs to listen to confirm something. The could go in to set up a meeting. It could be a myriad of things.

Don't you think the rest of the entire communication that lays bare the exact context would have been turned over too if it was that nefarious. Do you really think an assassination would be texted about? C;mon you are one of the strongest skeptics on this board.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:02 pm 
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Mikwut,

Well, when I suggested Trump was acting like a mafia don, in context to these texts, I simply meant he’s running a shadow operation through Giuliani and his associates outside the auspices of the government, which is pretty clear. I mean, what in the world are any of them doing there in the first place? And what in the ever living ____ are they surveilling the American Ambassador for? And for whom? It’s so beyond the pale I have a hard time finding the words for it in the moment. The not-so-subtle joke or offer (what a world we live in where I can’t be sure which one it is) to have someone take care of the Ambassador is so far removed from a Truther conspiracy theory that I was confused by your equating the two. I understand your point about needing more information, because I agree we do, This is very serious business, and it needs to be public.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:29 pm 
God

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Doc,

We agree its needs to be made public. And it is serious business for sure.
mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:39 pm 
God

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I'll end by saying I do believe crazy ____ happens in the world and especially in the world of politics. I have handled conspiracy cases. I have not handled a conspiracy has high up and this Yanovitch one but I have handled some big dollar white collar crime conspiracies. Prosecutors often use an adage at trial that criminals aren't rational, and humans do irrational things all the time. My experience with sophisticated conspiracy is the opposite. People involved are often really smart, really rational and highly controlled in how they operate. Maybe Trump and Guiliani are just numbskills. But I think they together would have experience to be able to pull off better than this Biden smear where there aren't all these tells showing up left and right.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:48 pm 
God

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Donald Trump had thugs working for him where they viewed it as part of their job to get an ambassador out of the way to get an advantage over a domestic political opponent. This led to her being surveiled by them. One of these henchmen, in context, joked (hopefully, but I guess maybe not?) about having her killed.

That’s all pretty clear from the evidence. Donald Trump’s involvement in these fine grain details is unknown. Guliani references keeping “1” in the loop, which sure as hell sounds like Trump, but what’s going on with that is too ambiguous to know for sure.

And yeah, being friendly to 9/11 trutherism while not seeing Trump world’s conspiracy here is sad and interesting.

They wanted an ambassador out because it was conditional to getting Ukrainian figures to help manufacture propaganda to help his re-election campaign.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:52 pm 
God

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mikwut wrote:
I'll end by saying I do believe crazy ____ happens in the world and especially in the world of politics. I have handled conspiracy cases. I have not handled a conspiracy has high up and this Yanovitch one but I have handled some big dollar white collar crime conspiracies. Prosecutors often use an adage at trial that criminals aren't rational, and humans do irrational things all the time. My experience with sophisticated conspiracy is the opposite. People involved are often really smart, really rational and highly controlled in how they operate. Maybe Trump and Guiliani are just numbskills. But I think they together would have experience to be able to pull off better than this Biden smear where there aren't all these tells showing up left and right.

mikwut
Trump and Guiliani are probably too smart to leave all this evidence is galaxy brain level reasoning.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:51 pm 
God

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I thought the best way to beat a political opponent was to have better policies. Has Trump brought in better healthcare than Obamacare? Has Trump helped reduce the deficit and debt.? Who will suffer in order for him to do that? Has Trump won the respect of other nations to be a world leader? Does he tell the truth? Paula White his spiritual adviser says if you oppose Trump you oppose God.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:15 pm 
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It should be noted for anyone not following this very closely that Chairman Schiff is a seasoned prosecutor who has previously prosecuted an FBI agent that worked as a Russian spy.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:27 pm 
High Priest

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
It should be noted for anyone not following this very closely that Chairman Schiff is a seasoned prosecutor who has previously prosecuted an FBI agent that worked as a Russian spy.

- Doc


Which probably means he'll do a spectacular job all for nothing since the jury amounts to a bunch of Trump sycophants who see him as "pencil neck schiff" leading a sham trial.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:35 pm 
God

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E

Quote:
Trump and Guiliani are probably too smart to leave all this evidence is galaxy brain level reasoning.


So I remember you giving an anecdote a month or so back about a kind of harassment thing that happened at your work that got brushed under the rug but you went to bat for. You present your anecdote directly applicable to Trump. My anecdote from work life is galaxy brain level reasoning?

Dude, there anecdotes. That's all. You take em with a grain a salt. But that's real rich coming from the assassination conspiracy presenter - and oh my God Russia hacked Burisma with phishing emails, galaxy brain level reasoning, that's rich man.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:30 pm 
God

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mikwut wrote:
E

Quote:
Trump and Guiliani are probably too smart to leave all this evidence is galaxy brain level reasoning.


So I remember you giving an anecdote a month or so back about a kind of harassment thing that happened at your work that got brushed under the rug but you went to bat for. You present your anecdote directly applicable to Trump. My anecdote from work life is galaxy brain level reasoning?

Dude, there anecdotes. That's all. You take 'em with a grain a salt. But that's real rich coming from the assassination conspiracy presenter - and oh my God Russia hacked Burisma with phishing emails, galaxy brain level reasoning, that's rich man.

mikwut


This misrepresents what I said, which is twice now, and once after I responded directly to you. What the texts show is a plot of people working for Trump to advance his goals physically surveiling Yavanovich and reporting back. In doing so, they make a crack about having her killed that is hopefully a joke, but maybe not.

The idea that the evidence of implicating Trump in this affair is too obvious for someone as savvy as Trump - quite possibly the dumbest public figure we've seen in many years - to leave and therefore we should be inherently skeptical of being caught too red-handed is one of the most absurd arguments I've seen in quite some time. It's borderline question begging in how it allows the most persuasive evidence to be self-refuting for you.

Russia did hack Burisma relatively recently. It's reminiscent of them attempting to hack Clinton within hours of Donald Trump calling on them to do so in public. Of course, that was on live television, and Trump would be incredibly stupid to do something like that, so it probably never happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:07 am 
God

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Racheal Maddow interview with Parnas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybF1rVa35Y

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:51 am 
God

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https://twitter.com/AP/status/1217799621394812928

Congrats to the Trump admin on finally getting Ukraine to investigate Americans.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:43 am 
God
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aussieguy55 wrote:
Racheal Maddow interview with Parnas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybF1rVa35Y


This is a one second loop. Do you even internet? My god you're exasperating.

ANYWAY.

https://apnews.com/708b81d4c77038eb0b751c30f72ff315

Quote:
Parnas’ account undercuts a key Republican defense of Trump during the impeachment investigation — that Trump’s withholding of vital military aid to Ukraine last summer wasn’t a quid pro quo for Biden investigations.

President Trump knew exactly what was going on,” said Parnas, a Soviet-born Florida businessman facing a raft of criminal charges related to campaign finance violations. “He was aware of all my movements. I wouldn’t do anything without the consent of Rudy Giuliani, or the President.”


Quote:
Parnas said every communication he had with Zelenskiy’s team was at the direction of Giuliani, whom he regularly overheard briefing Trump about their progress by phone.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:49 am 
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More damning evidence released:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/1 ... nce-099413

Do you remember when our Liar in Chief said he didn't know Parnas?

Quote:
The documents also include several photos of Parnas with members of Trump’s family and his administration — including Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions — further highlighting Parnas’ ties and access to the president and members of his inner circle.


How could Trump and Giuliani be so dumb as to interact with someone that would leave so much evidence of their collusion!??!?!?

Quote:
House impeachment investigators released a new set of evidence that was obtained from Lev Parnas, an indicted former associate of President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani — including voicemails, photos, and text messages between Parnas and high-level figures within Trump’s orbit.

The material includes voicemail messages Parnas received from Giuliani and Victoria Toensing, a prominent Trump-aligned lawyer, both of whom have been identified as players in an effort to force the removal of the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, during the spring.


Anyway. None of this matters to anyone who supports Trump because, as we've seen from Ajax, they're perfectly ok with our Republic dividing itself into smaller states so - FINALLY - White people can implement national socialist policies in West Virginia. <- That's a literal position of Ajax, by the way.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:20 am 
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Not that any Trump supporters on this forum really care about Lev Parnas, but I feel like maybe it'd be helpful for them to understand who he is. Before I do that I'll just caveat with this:

Quote:
This, once again, confirms my suspicion that Ajax and the other turbo-brainlets really don't read much if a post goes beyond a few sentences. There has been ample posts detailing the reasons why Trump, and by extension the GOP, is a problem for a host of reasons.


Lev Parnas works for two people.

#1 - Rudy Giuliani on behalf of President Trump

#2 - Pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash who is detained in Vienna fighting extradition to the US on bribery and racketeering charges

Here's the Wiki article on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Fi ... ne_scandal

It should be noted that Parnas tried to flee to... Vienna, Austria to avoid prosecution for all sorts of stuff related to Trump and the GOP. I'm not going to bother breaking that out because ain't no one gonna read that ____ anyway. It should be noted that Rudy Giuliani was attempting to get out of Dodge and was en route to... you guessed it, Vienna, Austria.

Anywhey.

- President Trump removed Amb. Yovanovitch from her post following complaints from Giuliani and his associates. <- That would be Parnas and Firtash, by the way.

- GOP Cong. Sessions attacked Amb. Yovanovitch through conservative media outlets. Did you Sessions was being funded by Giuliani's associates Parnas and Fruman with money funneled to them by Firtash? Anyone seeing the picture, yet?

- Trump, Giuliani and his associates pressured the Ukrainian government to discredit Russian election interference. Firtash's hands are all over this, and it's presumed Russia's hands are all over him.

- Trump pressured the Ukrainian President, what's his nuts, to publicly announce a fabricated investigation into Trump's domestic political rival on CNN.

These are facts, man. You can either understand why this is important, and why Trump must be removed from office, or you can just get comfortable with the dissolution of our democracy.

- Doc

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