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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:09 pm 
God

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subgenius wrote:
naw i read it and then dismissed it has yet another under the tin foil hat hair fire.
Its got no legs man. And the leap of faith at the end...geez...omg, democracy is dying...we are all dying...the end of the world is nigh...because Trump!!!

Yeah, you read and dismissed it the same way flat earthers read and dismissed the evidence that the earth is really round, and that you and other climate deniers deny the enormous and compelling evidence of AGW. This is called "backfire effect." It is a well documented fact that conservatives (especially the less educated ones) are much more prone to this effect than liberal, progressives, and the better educated, though probably no groups are entirely immune to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:36 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
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I don't know. It seems like this cover-up gambit by McConnell is maybe too bold? You can set up a sham trial without the all inclusiveness of this kind of cover-up. The appearance of such a pervasive and transparent attempt to crush a fair trial might be worse than a show-trial that has even a little breathing room. A cover up is probably better than not one for them, but I'm not sure if it makes sense to go this hard at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:39 pm 
High Priest

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Senate rules were dropped in the 11th hour. The fix is in. Not sure how these people sleep at night.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 pm 
God

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Icarus wrote:
Senate rules were dropped in the 11th hour. The fix is in. Not sure how these people sleep at night.

To have gotten to the position they are in, they have to be a rather different sort of person. They probably sleep easy. Just like every other authoritarian party on the planet. You build systems to try and keep these people out of government for as long as you can. And when that fails, it can be a rough ride for a very long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:43 pm 
God

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Things are already quite ugly. Trump's likely to win reelection. It's hard to fathom what it's gonna be like on the other side of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:10 am 
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I’m curious if they’ll actually succeed in preventing witnesses from being subpoenaed.

- Doc

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In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:55 am 
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subgenius wrote:
naw i read it and then dismissed it has yet another under the tin foil hat hair fire.
Its got no legs man. And the leap of faith at the end...geez...omg, democracy is dying...we are all dying...the end of the world is nigh...because Trump!!!

You guys are getting less and less water; more and more sand with all the trips you are making to the Trump Armageddon well.

Look! nuclear destruction from North Korea!!aaarrrrghh!


So Obama actually did steal everyone's guns and forced people to gay marry each other while getting mandatory abortions?

Jade Helm anyone?

You never decried that nonsense and it never happened.

Not to mention right wingers complaining about normal people hailing Obama as the Messiah, while current right wingers hail Trump as being sent by God to save America...

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:37 am 
High Priest

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:01 pm
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EAllusion wrote:
Things are already quite ugly. Trump's likely to win reelection. It's hard to fathom what it's gonna be like on the other side of that.


Try to be optimistic. I'm trying to have faith in the American people. I know inheriting a great economy makes it extremely hard for an incumbent to lose re-election, but there are also other factors that matter to Americans when his overall approval is in the 40's while his approval on the economy is hovering just under 50%. Another predictive indicator is deaths of troops overseas, and Trump probably shot to hell whatever advantage he had as the "anti-war" candidate with his latest assassination stunt that resulted in more deaths.

What Democrats need to do is make sure people don't lose sight of his previous atrocities, such as kidnapping children, his human rights and civil rights violations with respect to ICE transgressions, torturing illegal immigrants with sleep deprivation for weeks, his abhorrent treatment of US citizens in Puerto Rico and his racist rhetoric that has brought new life to a once dormant white supremacist movement which has resulted in a significant uptick in domestic terrorism.

Also, Trump's platform in 2016 blathered on and on about the assumption of Hillary Clinton's supposed corruption. "Lock her up!" over what, crazed emails theories that proved to be nothing? After just three years in office, Trump has navigated the most corrupt administration in US history through monthly scandals seemingly unscathed because the sheer volume of them so early in his tenure has made us numb as a nation. It may even be to the point where we expect such behavior (dare I say become dependent on his daily cinema?).

What I'm seeing is that some of us who are appalled by Trump eventually become numb to the initial outrage because the Constitutional mechanisms that were designed to put a check on such behavior have completely failed them. Mueller, impeachment inquiries, a dozen associates being indicted or convicted, another dozen associates defecting from his cult and testifying against him, etc. It all ends with Trump and his base being able to claim more victories no matter what crimes he commits.

At this point it is hard to know how the American public will respond, which I think can happen one of two ways:

(1) Moral outrage - revolution / Blue wave
(2) Numbing complacency - because having an immoral tyrant in office can only last another 4 years and at least he hasn't destroyed the economy or started WW III.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:12 am 
God

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Icarus wrote:
Senate rules were dropped in the 11th hour. The fix is in. Not sure how these people sleep at night.

And what damnably atrocious rules they are! Their sole purpos is to prevent the facts from being disclosed and examined, especially from the American people, and even by the Senators who are supposed to be adjudicating the case against Trump:

Rule 1: Don't even allow the simple basic step of admitting the house record into trial. McConnel says he doesn't to hear any of the existing evidence or any new evidence.

Rule 2: The key facts must be delivered in the wee hours of the night (obviously because he doesn't want the American people to hear them).

Rule 3: Makes it much harder to get witnesses and documents after the arguments are heard.

Rule 4: The Clinton resolutions allowed for dismissal only after the arguments were heard, while this resolution allows for dismissal at any time.

This makes the impeachment trial nothing but a cover up and a joke. How can anyone both reasonable and honest possibly not see how atrocious and dishonest is what Moscow Mitch, now also known as Midnight Mitch, is trying to do? What makes it even more atrocious is that they know they can't credibly deny that Trump did what he was accused of. All they can do is now is try to argue that what he did was not serious enough to be impeachable.

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No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
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You have to act with optimism, because they is no other way forward. But make no mistake that the US is likely collapsing into a right-wing authoritarian state right in front of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:55 am 
God
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EAllusion wrote:
You have to act with optimism, because they is no other way forward. But make no mistake that the US is likely collapsing into a right-wing authoritarian state right in front of you.


I was doing some errands this morning and against my better judgement I tuned into a AM radio to, you know, get a different perspective.

Boy, was that mistake.

It's no wonder that Trump's base has no foundation in reality and what this means for our republic. It's also no wonder Republican Congressmen and Senators, when in the public forum, now act like AM radio talk show hosts. Gotta hand it to them, though. It works like a charm

- Doc

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In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:51 am 
God

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EAllusion wrote:
Things are already quite ugly. Trump's likely to win reelection. It's hard to fathom what it's gonna be like on the other side of that.


I think that Trump has about a 60% chance of winning re-election. I think that Trump will win Wisconsin and Florida again. I don't know about Michigan. I think that Pennsylvania will be won by the 2020 Democratic Nominee.

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"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:19 pm 
High Priest

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Trump's attorney stood before the Chief Justice and lied to his face, saying Republicans were not allowed to attend the House meetings.

Banana Republican here we come.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:14 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Things are already quite ugly. Trump's likely to win reelection. It's hard to fathom what it's gonna be like on the other side of that.

A dismantling of everything holy as we know it. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs, and cats living together... mass hysteria... and that will be in the first 90 days!

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:18 pm 
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Icarus wrote:
Trump's attorney stood before the Chief Justice and lied to his face,...

That is how you know they are Trump's attorneys and not some shysters that have wandered in off the street.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 pm 
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The entire White House defense is a house of cards. Lies are their stock in trade; they threw out the other merchandise because lies are a hot ticket item for them. Fox News has been prepping this Republican customer base for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:05 am 
God

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It's maddening! The more obvious it becomes that Trump is guilty, and the more abundant and damning the evidence piling up against him, the more the Republicans double down and triple down on defending and acquitting him. When considering the fact that McConnel is at least as evil and corrupt as Trump himself, perhaps this is not so surprising. His Republican defenders are apparently no longer even trying to deny that Trump did what he is accused of. They've fallen back on claiming what he undeniably did was not serious enough to warrant impeachment. Abuse of power is not worthy of impeachment!? Give us a break! What better justification can there be for impeachment of a President than that? To me it is almost as bad as an attorney for the defense acknowledging that the defendant did indeed commit the rape, but that was not sufficient justification for incarcerating him.

President Nixon would have been justly impeached and convicted, had he not voluntarily resigned, for much lessor justification than what Trump is being impeached for.

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No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:25 am 
God

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What in the world does Trump have over these people that makes them so terrified to oppose him?

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No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:12 am 
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Well. I learned a new term today. "Pettifogging."

Huh.

- Doc

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In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:23 am 
High Priest

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:01 pm
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well. I learned a new term today. "Pettifogging."

Huh.

- Doc


It is absolutely jaw dropping that Chief Justice Roberts demands we treat the Senate as this revered institution of integrity while Republicans have transformed it into a cesspool of corruption in front of our very eyes. Trump's rabid attorneys have no defense other than to attack Democrats and fire off FOX News propaganda sound bytes at a machine gun's rate. This incestuous love affair between Trump and FOX has taken its toll on the American psyche in ways never imagined possible. Right now up is down, black is white, and wrong is right.

Trump impeachment lawyers Jay Sekulow and Pat Cipollone echoed Fox in impeachment trial opening statements

Members of Trump’s impeachment team have been fixtures on cable news, primarily Fox

Sean Hannity is a Trump political operative and Fox News doesn’t care

STUDY: Trump sent 657 live tweets of Fox programming in 2019


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 Post subject: Re: Impeachment hearings
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:28 am 
High Priest

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Did Dershowitz Say He Was ‘Not Happy Seeing Nixon’s Gang Being Tried by Blacks and Liberals’?

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/01/ ... quality=65

Yes, he did.


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