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 Post subject: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:47 pm 
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When it was revealed that Lewandowski had lied to the media about whether Trump had asked him to get involved with trying to talk with Jeff Sessions, Cory Lewandowski gave an answer that would should be Cory's words to live by:

Quote:
I have no obligation to be honest with the media because they are just as dishonest as anybody else.

So let's take a step back and take a look at where we are: It is okay to lie to the media. Corey feels no obligation to tell the truth. Think about the implications of what Lewandowski said:

1. His "obligation" to be honest is predicated on his perception of the media. He feels no personal obligation to be honest for the sake of being honest.

2. Do you believe the reason Lewandowski lied is because he thinks the media lied? Or is the reason that he simply did not want to tell the truth, because the truth would have made the President uncomfortable?

3. If Lewandowski feels that he has no obligation to tell the truth to the media, does he not understand that he is then lying to the American People? Does he not understand that lying to the media is lying to the American People? How do we trust any statement he makes to the media?

Again we return to Res Ipsa's tag line, which becomes more important as the thinking behind the Trump administration reveals itself:

Helen Arendt wrote:
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”

If someone would like to defend the idea that a person has no obligation to tell the truth when talking with the American People, I'm all ears...

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:02 pm 
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My take on it is that he's an ethical person but not wanting to cast his pearls before swine.

In other words, he's fully aware of their corrupt lying game against the President and the Right in general, so he has no interest in participating in it, giving them ammo to then abuse it toward the President as they do with EVERYTHING. Leftist media corrupts the most simple of things, be it Sharpy's, an Martin Luther King Bust in the White House, or literally 1,000's of other examples.

So, from my and the Rights perspective, Leftists lie almost every time they open their mouths, especially when it concerns the Right, so from our perspective, a little rare lie to such people to essentially say "piss off" to them, is not a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:10 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
My take on it is that he's an ethical person but not wanting to cast his pearls before swine.

In other words, he's fully aware of their corrupt lying game against the President and the Right in general, so he has no interest in participating in it, giving them ammo to then abuse it toward the President as they do with EVERYTHING. Leftist media corrupts the most simple of things, be it Sharpy's, an Martin Luther King Bust in the White House, or literally 1,000's of other examples.

So, from my and the Rights perspective, Leftists lie almost every time they open their mouths, especially when it concerns the Right, so from our perspective, a little rare lie to such people to essentially say "piss off" to them, is not a big deal.


QED

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:34 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
My take on it is that he's an ethical person but not wanting to cast his pearls before swine.

In other words, he's fully aware of their corrupt lying game against the President and the Right in general, so he has no interest in participating in it, giving them ammo to then abuse it toward the President as they do with EVERYTHING. Leftist media corrupts the most simple of things, be it Sharpy's, an Martin Luther King Bust in the White House, or literally 1,000's of other examples.

So, from my and the Rights perspective, Leftists lie almost every time they open their mouths, especially when it concerns the Right, so from our perspective, a little rare lie to such people to essentially say "piss off" to them, is not a big deal.

Shorter faqs:

“You disagree with me and point out my lying; that makes me mad and gives me license to lie to you”.

Same day, same faqsian excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:30 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
My take on it is that he's an ethical person but not wanting to cast his pearls before swine.

In other words, he's fully aware of their corrupt lying game against the President and the Right in general, so he has no interest in participating in it, giving them ammo to then abuse it toward the President as they do with EVERYTHING. Leftist media corrupts the most simple of things, be it Sharpy's, an Martin Luther King Bust in the White House, or literally 1,000's of other examples.

So, from my and the Rights perspective, Leftists lie almost every time they open their mouths, especially when it concerns the Right, so from our perspective, a little rare lie to such people to essentially say "piss off" to them, is not a big deal.


"A mixture of gullibility and cynicism had been an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality before it became an everyday phenomenon of masses. In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, that everything was possible and that nothing was true. The mixture in itself was remarkable enough, because it spelled the end of the illusion that gullibility was a weakness of unsuspecting primitive souls and cynicism the vice of superior and refined minds. Mass Propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness."


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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:31 am 
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So...Lewandowski lied to Congress about unethical behavior on the part of the President to keep from giving them and the media ammo to use against the President because he's an ethical guy. Got it.

That said, this was another strike against the House being able to successfully hold impeachment proceedings against Trump. Combined with the Mueller testimonies I think it's pretty clear it would be disastrous.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:33 am 
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faqs, do you realize you just stated your ethics is based on party allegiance? That you determine right and wrong in the most broken, unethical manner imaginable that has been behind some of the greatest atrocities of the last century?

You are a terrible person by this admission.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:33 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
So...Lewandowski lied to Congress about unethical behavior on the part of the President to keep from giving them and the media ammo to use against the President because he's an ethical guy. Got it.

That said, this was another strike against the House being able to successfully hold impeachment proceedings against Trump. Combined with the Mueller testimonies I think it's pretty clear it would be disastrous.

It makes me laugh how leftists open their mouths on things they know nothing about.

Lewandowski lied to the MEDIA on a particular question of theirs in relation to Trump and their conversations. He hasn't lied to Congress...

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:39 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
faqs, do you realize you just stated your ethics is based on party allegiance? That you determine right and wrong in the most broken, unethical manner imaginable that has been behind some of the greatest atrocities of the last century?

You are a terrible person by this admission.

Nope, not at all what "I" stated. First I never said anything about "Me". I simply stated what he did and why. So, it would be nice if you people stopped LYING about me and others.

Second, every time you open your mouths you're lying, especially if talking about us, like YOU JUST DID TO ME! So, a good person sometimes choosing not to cast their pearls before swine is NOT some "evil", it is simply not willing to give you the time of day.

I'll take good people sometimes being strategic with the truth as might be necessary in extreme situations such as you all's insanity these days about Trump and the Right, compared to you who lie in your every word and belief. I have absolutely no qualms about that, especially if it's NOT some "evil" that's not being told. I'm saying ZERO about not being truthful in relation to wrongs, I'm talking about in the good, sometimes having to engage in a white lie.

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Last edited by ldsfaqs on Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:40 am 
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You are a terrible human being. Your lack of sound ethics makes you the tool of despots and tyrants. That's all there is to say about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:49 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
You are a terrible human being. Your lack of sound ethics makes you the tool of despots and tyrants. That's all there is to say about it.

Nope... You can keep believing your ____, but it's not the truth. Good people are truth tellers.

See, you can't even tell the truth about someone in just a few words online. So who are YOU being the arbitor of truth and right?

Further, let's examine your claim. "Who" are the "despots and tyrants".

- It's not the right trying to remove free speech
- It's not the right restricting banning speech on social media
- It's not the right banning foods.
- It's not the right banning the right to self-defense
- It's not the right who wants to grow government more and more and more taking by force a persons work.

on and on...

LOL... The Right or "me" aren't the "tools" of despots and tyrants. You are. You embrace Fascism/Communism/Socialism... Those ideologies are the ideologies and systems of despots and Tyrants. My side is Capitalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, and Anarchy. Those are not ideology's of despots and tyrants.

Seriously, get a clue...

And my ethics are absolute. You don't know me. Your warped fantasy of your own mind is not me or my ethics.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:51 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
I'll take good people sometimes being strategic with the truth as might be necessary ... I have absolutely no qualms about that ...

Shorter faqs:

“I condone lying and will engage in it to serve my own agenda”

There you have it, folks.

ldsfaqs wrote:
.. my ethics are absolute.

Yes, absolutely corrupted.

Quote:
You don't know me.

You’ve told us all that we need to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:45 am 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
1. His "obligation" to be honest is predicated on his perception of the media. He feels no personal obligation to be honest for the sake of being honest.

Not accurate, he also stated "when under oath, I’ve always told the truth". His "obligation" was specific to the media and was offered in retort. Your attempt to extrapolate this retort into a larger character policy is (ironically) dishonest.
MeDotOrg wrote:
2. Do you believe the reason Lewandowski lied is because he thinks the media lied? Or is the reason that he simply did not want to tell the truth, because the truth would have made the President uncomfortable?

I think its reasonable to conclude that his "obligation" is a convenience given the known character of the modern day media....I mean, if we are going to cast general character conclusions about.
MeDotOrg wrote:
3. If Lewandowski feels that he has no obligation to tell the truth to the media, does he not understand that he is then lying to the American People?

That is a myth. The "media" does not equal American People. So, while many people in America may rely on many various "media" for information - we also must believe that the media have misled and lied (on occasion) to the American people...which creates a bit of a paradox with your assumption.

MeDotOrg wrote:
Does he not understand that lying to the media is lying to the American People? How do we trust any statement he makes to the media?
So when Dan Rather or the New York Times fabricates "news" from whole cloth, then what?

MeDotOrg wrote:
Again we return to Res Ipsa's tag line, which becomes more important as the thinking behind the Trump administration reveals itself:

Helen Arendt wrote:
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”

Are you proposing that such a distinction no longer exists? heck, even Cory is making a blatant distinction between the 2 in your OP.
Me thinks a bit of chicken little has you by the tongue.


MeDotOrg wrote:
If someone would like to defend the idea that a person has no obligation to tell the truth when talking with the American People, I'm all ears...

Again, you are erroneously, and thus far without foundation, substituting "nedia" with American People...which is ironically the type of "blurring" that Arendt is speaking to.
Nevertheless, no one has any obligation to be honest with any media at any time...just look at most reporters today.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Quote:
. . .The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness."

That sure describes what is happening with Trump's base day by day. It is tragic how readily they allow themselves to be deceived.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:47 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Nevertheless, no one has any obligation to be honest with any media at any time...just look at most reporters today.

Nonsense! This is a morally bankrupt attitude. Those who would be our political leaders have, or ought to have, a particularly strong obligation to be honest with the media. It is particularly nonsensical of you or anyone to deny that being dishonest with the media is equivalent to being dishonest with the people, because the people are necessarily dependent on the media for keeping up with what is going on in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:01 pm 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
Good people are truth tellers.

While I don't know if that is a universal truth, I'd agree a person is generally better for having been told the truth even if it isn't one they particularly want to hear. Even better is the person who is able to tell themselves the truth.

Speaking of.

Here's my comment again -

honorentheos wrote:
faqs, do you realize you just stated your ethics is based on party allegiance? That you determine right and wrong in the most broken, unethical manner imaginable that has been behind some of the greatest atrocities of the last century?


Your response has been -

Quote:
"Who" are the "despots and tyrants".

- It's not the right trying to remove free speech
- It's not the right restricting banning speech on social media
- It's not the right banning foods.
- It's not the right banning the right to self-defense
- It's not the right who wants to grow government more and more and more taking by force a persons work.

on and on...

LOL... The Right or "me" aren't the "tools" of despots and tyrants. You are. You embrace Fascism/Communism/Socialism... Those ideologies are the ideologies and systems of despots and Tyrants. My side is Capitalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, and Anarchy. Those are not ideology's of despots and tyrants.


Notice how your definitions for right v. wrong are simply political? It's left versus right. The right is good. The left is bad. That's you doing the talking. It's your ethical system that you are putting on display. Now, you might argue I'm missing your belief it's what the left consistently does that makes them wrong and the right, well, right. But that is immaterial given you never demonstrate that you actually hold a more fundamental belief. The shorthand version of your view is all you put on display here. Hence, why we have you defending lying.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:14 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
I'll take good people sometimes being strategic with the truth as might be necessary ... I have absolutely no qualms about that ...

Shorter faqs:

“I condone lying and will engage in it to serve my own agenda”

There you have it, folks.
He didn't say say it's OK to lie, he said it was OK to be strategic with the truth. All is doubleplusgood, citizen.

And as a reminder: we are not in a trade war with China, it's a trade police action.


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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:17 am 
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Has faqs been away so long you've all forgotten what he's like?

Of course he's full of ____. Of course he has no idea what he's talking about. Of course he's a terrible person. And of course he writes like he's suffered blunt force trauma to the head on several occasions.

Man... short memories around here.

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:59 am 
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It's sad but true, as demonstrated in almost every thread faqs has anything to do with, nothing or no one ultimately damages ldsfaqs' own credibility and veracity than ldsfaqs himself. He will almost certainly remain forever clueless about that fact. That is the sad part

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:21 am 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Has faqs been away so long you've all forgotten what he's like?

Of course he's full of ____. Of course he has no idea what he's talking about. Of course he's a terrible person. And of course he writes like he's suffered blunt force trauma to the head on several occasions.

Man... short memories around here.


Hey, I remember his sponge on a stick. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lewandowski, the media, and the truth
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:00 pm 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
1. His "obligation" to be honest is predicated on his perception of the media. He feels no personal obligation to be honest for the sake of being honest.

subgenius wrote:
Not accurate, he also stated "when under oath, I’ve always told the truth". His "obligation" was specific to the media and was offered in retort. Your attempt to extrapolate this retort into a larger character policy is (ironically) dishonest.

Let me be clear: His obligation to be honest when talking with the media is based upon his perception of the media.

The idea that lying to the media is NOT lying to the American people is ____, very easily proven. If I, as a private citizen, was to ask Lewandowski the same questions at the same time the media asked him those questions, would he tell me the truth? Or would he have to know my character before he decided whether or not to tell me the truth?

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