It is currently Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:26 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:36 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5884
Quote:
What right do we have to do so? What empowers us to deny a nation self determination?

Might is right in this case. There are no rights except those derived from might. The Declaration of Independence meant nothing until Cornwallis surrendered. Is it in your best self interest to have Iran with nuclear capability? Iran's will has never been in question. The only reason they don't kill us all right now is because they don't yet have the means to do so. That's changing.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:11 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19092
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
What right do we have to do so? What empowers us to deny a nation self determination?

Might is right in this case. There are no rights except those derived from might. The Declaration of Independence meant nothing until Cornwallis surrendered. Is it in your best self interest to have Iran with nuclear capability? Iran's will has never been in question. The only reason they don't kill us all right now is because they don't yet have the means to do so. That's changing.

You’ve been brainwashed by AIPAC. It’s always weird to see White supremacists align with the Jewish lobby when it comes to foreign policy.

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:49 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 14163
ajax18 wrote:
Might is right in this case.

You cling to this because you can't make an intellectual argument in favor of what you want.

Of course a dummy is going to favor "might" (not that said dummy has any on his own).

_________________
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:10 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 8192
Location: What does the fox say?
Since we are the biggest kid on the block we have the power and hence duty to deny to others that which we assert a fundamental natural right for us?

You don't see the problem with this?

_________________
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin


Last edited by SteelHead on Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:56 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 7484
ajax18 wrote:
Might is right in this case. There are no rights except those derived from might.

I don’t think that the Stars and Bars crowd really buys into that argument.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:13 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19092
canpakes wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
Might is right in this case. There are no rights except those derived from might.


I don’t think that the Stars and Bars crowd really buys into that argument.


That's a good point. Going back to Trump and his supporters, we see a sort of weird fascination with the Alpha or Strongman archetype:

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comm ... ?context=1

Quote:
[–]Dahhhkness

9395 points 12 hours ago23911

Trump has a very long and extensive history of slobbering over dictators:

Trump on China:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 27310129a4

"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it, then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength."

Trump on Xi:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... fundraiser

“He’s now president for life. President for life. No, he’s great,” Trump said. “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... i-liked-it

“President Xi, who is a strong man, I call him ‘king’,” Trump said in a wide-ranging speech at Tuesday’s dinner. “He said, ‘But I am not king, I am president.’ I said, ‘No, you are president for life, and therefore you are king.’ He said, ‘Huh … huh.’ He liked that. I call him ‘king’. I get along with him great.”

Trump on Hussein:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/controve ... d=40373481

"We shouldn't have been there. We shouldn't have destabilized Saddam Hussein, right. He was a bad guy, really bad guy. But you know what he did well? He killed terrorists," Trump said.

"He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists. Over. Today, Iraq is Harvard for terrorism. You want to be a terrorist, you go to Iraq. It's like Harvard, OK? So sad, so sad."

Trump on el-Sisi:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-04-02/ ... nald-trump

"You have a great friend and ally in the United States and in me," Trump told Sisi, sweeping aside his predecessor Barack Obama's concerns about the Sisi government's purge of political opponents and rights activists.

"I just want to let everybody know that we are very much behind President al-Sisi — he has done a fantastic job in a very difficult situation," Trump said.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/trump- ... ls-report/

“Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in a loud voice: ‘Where’s my favorite dictator?’ Several people who were in the room at the time said they heard the question,” the newspaper reported.

Trump on Assad:

https://www.salon.com/2016/07/06/its_no ... dictators/

"I think in terms of leadership, he's getting an A and our president is not doing so well,"

Trump on MBS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... down-tweet

“I have great confidence in King Salman and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, they know exactly what they are doing,” the US president, who is travelling in Asia, posted on Twitter. “Some of those they are harshly treating have been ‘milking’ their country for years!” The tweets came days after Trump urged Saudi Arabia to list the first offering of shares in Aramco, one of the world’s most important oil companies, on the New York stock exchange or Nasdaq. The White House had been silent about the unprecedented arrests, which began on Saturday with little warning or legal process, and were widely seen as a consolidation of power by 32-year-old Crown Prince Mohammed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ar-job-g20

“You have done a spectacular job,” Trump told the powerful crown prince on Saturday, calling him “a friend of mine”. […]. Trump praised the crown prince, who has moved to loosen some social restrictions in the kingdom but also cracked down on activists, including women pressing for the right to drive. “It’s an honour to be with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia ... a man who has really done things in the last five years in terms of opening up Saudi Arabia,” Trump said. “It’s like a revolution in a very positive way.”

Trump on Kim:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics ... index.html

"He's the head of the country," Trump said of Kim Friday during a live interview on Fox News' "Fox and Friends." "And I mean he's the strong head. Don't let anyone think anything different." "He speaks and his people sit up at attention," the President added. "I want my people to do the same."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... un/562619/

“I learned that he’s a very talented man. I also learned that he loves his country very much.”

“His country does love him,” he said. “His people, you see the fervor. They have a great fervor. They’re gonna put it together, and I think they’re going to end up with a very strong country, and a country which has people—that they’re so hard working, so industrious.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 37186.html

He added: “I may be wrong, but I believe that chairman Kim has a great and beautiful vision for his country, and only the United States, with me as president, can make that vision come true

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-p ... mit-2019-3

"Again, the relationship is very good. He likes me. I like him. Some people say, 'Oh, you shouldn't like him.' I said, 'Why shouldn't I like him?'" […] At a rally in West Virginia last year following their first summit in Singapore in June, Trump was effusive about his relationship with Kim, telling supporters "we fell in love." ”No, really. He wrote me beautiful letters," he continued.

Trump on Erdogan:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/trump- ... ing-134650

‘Well, we have to ask our parliaments. We have a process; we can’t just tell you we’re going to spend more, we have a legal process.’ Trump turns around to the Turkish president, Recep Erdoğan, and says, ‘Except for Erdoğan over here. He does things the right way,’ and then actually fist-bumps the Turkish president,” Bremmer said.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/ ... ise-242986

“It’s a great honor and privilege — because he’s become a friend of mine — to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey,” Trump told reporters. “He’s running a very difficult part of the world. He’s involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he’s getting very high marks.”

Trump on Bolsonaro:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e-he-does/

“He is working very hard on the Amazon fires, and in all respects doing a great job for the people of Brazil,” Trump tweeted on Tuesday. “He and his country have the full and complete support of the USA!”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/tru ... se-n985116

President Donald Trump praised Brazil’s new far-right leader Tuesday as he welcomed him to the White House, saying the man who’s been described as the “Trump of the Tropics” has done “a very outstanding job.”

Trump said President Jair Bolsonaro had run “one of the incredible campaigns,” saying he was “honored” it had drawn comparisons with his own 2016 victory. And he predicted the two would have a “fantastic working relationship,” telling reporters as he opened a joint press conference that they have “many views” in common.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... l-leader-/

President Trump on Tuesday praised Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro’s decision to appoint his son, Eduardo, as the ambassador to the U.S., saying he doesn’t view it as nepotism. Mr. Trump lauded Eduardo Bolsonaro, a 35-year-old lawmaker, during his father’s visit to the White House earlier this year. “I find his son to be outstanding,” Mr. Trump said. “I know his son, and that’s probably why they did it.” “I don’t think it’s nepotism,” Mr. Trump added.

Trump on Duterte:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/us/p ... kdown.html

“I just wanted to congratulate you because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem,” he said. “Many countries have the problem, we have a problem, but what a great job you are doing and I just wanted to call and tell you that.” Mr. Duterte responded that drugs were “the scourge of my nation now, and I have to do something to preserve the Filipino nation.” Mr. Trump responded that “we had a previous president who did not understand that,” an apparent reference to President Barack Obama, “but I understand that.”

Trump on Mussolini:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/ ... ote-219932)

“Chuck, it's OK to know it's Mussolini. Look, Mussolini was Mussolini. It's OK to — it's a very good quote, it's a very interesting quote, and I know it,” he said Sunday morning. “I saw it. I saw what — and I know who said it. But what difference does it make whether it's Mussolini or somebody else? It's certainly a very interesting quote.”

Trump on Putin:

So goddamn many it’s hard to pick just one:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/03 ... -timeline/

https://www.newsweek.com/heres-all-time ... tin-708859

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/t ... terference


I tend to think his supporters like strongmen because they feel a sense of powerlessness themselves over their personal lives and the larger society that surrounds them.

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:49 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5884
Quote:
I don’t think that the Stars and Bars crowd really buys into that argument.


Morally and constitutionally the confederates were right. Legally they're not because they lost the war.

Had things went differently on the battlefield, we might be reading history books about the greatness of Jefferson Davis and the second war of Independence.

If you want to go strictly by morality, the British probably had a better case than the American colonists.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:02 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19092
ajax18 wrote:
If you want to go strictly by morality, the British probably had a better case than the American colonists.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Jersey_(1736)

Do you you ever ____ think about the trash that comes out of your mouth? From the link- 11,000 American prisoners died aboard the prison ships over the course of the Revolutionary war. The conditions and suffering was indescribable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Sh ... 7_Monument

https://www.google.com/search?q=prison+ ... 80&bih=612

Ajax18 is a Mormon, a priesthood holder, and a Republican.

God damn.

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:19 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 14163
ajax18 wrote:
Morally and constitutionally the confederates were right.

Someone should enslave your idiotic family. After all, it's the morally correct thing to do, right? The only problem is they'd likely be the most useless slaves possible. What would they be good for except as paper weights?

____ moron.

_________________
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:36 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 8192
Location: What does the fox say?
Any one arguing that a group fighting to continue the practice of human chattel slavery held the moral high ground - well their moral compass points south.

_________________
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:19 am 
God

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 5242
Location: California
Ajax, would you support a constitutional amendment making slavery legal again?

How about an amendment restricting the right to vote to white males only?

_________________
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:27 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 7484
Gunnar wrote:
Ajax, would you support a constitutional amendment making slavery legal again?

How about an amendment restricting the right to vote to white males only?

Remember, might makes right.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:47 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5884
Quote:
Ajax, would you support a constitutional amendment making slavery legal again?


No, I just think according to the constitution this should have been a decision left to the states not the federal government. Slavery would have been gone before the 21st century anyway. Illegal immigrant labor has proven to be cheaper and more attractive to employers.

Quote:
How about an amendment restricting the right to vote to white males only?


No but I would stipulate that the right to vote belongs only to taxpaying citizens. That was the original purpose of only allowing land owners to vote in the past.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:13 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 13629
Location: On the imaginary axis
ajax18 wrote:
Slavery would have been gone before the 21st century anyway. Illegal immigrant labor has proven to be cheaper and more attractive to employers.


Um, remind me when it was that US employers had a choice between the costs and benefits of simultaneously available slave labour and 'illegal immigrant labour'? If they didn't ever have that choice, your confident statement seems to be based on no more than imagination.

ajax18 wrote:
the right to vote belongs only to taxpaying citizens


OK. Because EVERYBODY pays taxes whenever they make a purchase in a store, don't they? Oh, you meant income tax. So what is your justification for that limitation, exactly?

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:56 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 8192
Location: What does the fox say?
After the last 3 years of social media, while I am not in favor of taxes qualifying someone for franchise, I do think ignorance should disqualify voters.

I propose that all voters should face 20 questions about "news" articles before qualifying to vote. 10 are left leaning, and 10 right leaning. Of the 10 per slant, five are fake news and five real. Anyone that fails to discern fake news from real news more than 50% of the time looses their franchise for the year. You have 30 minute to take the test, and are allowed to use search engines to help in the determination of fake vs real.

_________________
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 13629
Location: On the imaginary axis
ajax18 wrote:
I would stipulate that the right to vote belongs only to taxpaying citizens.


Another point. The writers of the Declaration of Independence said:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...


My emphasis. Notice that it is the consent of the governed, not of the tax-payers that is specified here. Not just those of the governed who pay taxes.

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:51 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 12379
Location: Your mother's purse
ajax18 wrote:
...

No but I would stipulate that the right to vote belongs only to taxpaying citizens. That was the original purpose of only allowing land owners to vote in the past.

I do not think you are using the word "stipulate" correctly in this sentence and sentiment.
But many 16 year olds pay taxes..as do most people shopping...but maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "citizen" since I tend to use literal sources, like the US Constitution, for such defintions.
But if tax payer is a qualification, does that mean using exmeptions and deuctions to zero our your tax bill means "no vote"? and what if you get a refund, do you have to give your vote to someone who actually paid taxes?
Forgive me, but I often get confused when a person puts forth a Ross Perot-esque governmental policy.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:17 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 5242
Location: California
subgenius wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
I do not think you are using the word "stipulate" correctly in this sentence and sentiment.
But many 16 year olds pay taxes..as do most people shopping...but maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "citizen" since I tend to use literal sources, like the US Constitution, for such defintions.
But if tax payer is a qualification, does that mean using exmeptions and deuctions to zero our your tax bill means "no vote"? and what if you get a refund, do you have to give your vote to someone who actually paid taxes?
Forgive me, but I often get confused when a person puts forth a Ross Perot-esque governmental policy.

I don't often agree with you, subby, but on this issue you are certainly correct, and ajax is ludicrously wrong. Kudus! :smile:

_________________
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 7484
Gunnar wrote:
I don't often agree with you, subby, but on this issue you are certainly correct, and ajax is ludicrously wrong. Kudus! :smile:

Yep. Imma gonna give subs the thumbs up for pointing out that the issue is a bit more complex than the ‘solution’ accounts for.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:31 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19092
Since the administration thinks it's a good idea to stage troops in SA I thought this wold be worth sharing; Trump from a few years ago:

Image


- Doc "didn't we learn anything from Iraq?" NC4Me

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:40 am 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 16407
ajax18 wrote:

No, I just think according to the constitution this should have been a decision left to the states not the federal government.


The Constitution was amended to specifically change that. The Constitution says this is not a decision left to the states. Slavery was not unilaterally ended with the election of Lincoln, so this makes no sense as a moral justification for the Confederacy. Alabama did not lose its right to have slaves when Lincoln was elected. The Confederate states were rightly worried that the election of a free soiler would lead to a political reality in which the influence of the slave states would wane over time and thus eventually result in the legal restriction of slavery. This is a position you describe as inevitable yourself. They rebelled to have a nation-state in which the power of slave-states would be maintained in perpetuity.

It's nice that you oppose the 13th amendment. Real neat. But it has nothing to do with the position you are arguing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group