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 Post subject: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Yemen's Houthi rebels used 10 drones to attack Saudi oil refinery complexes. They took out roughly 50% of Saudi Arabia's oil production.

Saudi Arabia has the world's third largest defense budget. Their single greatest strategic resource is their oil refineries. Yemini rebels took out 5% of the World's oil production with a couple of drones. The drones were probably supplied by Iran, but it shows how much damage a proxy group can do for a state sponsor.

I think about Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) terminals.

Drones are a great example of how technology makes the world simultaneously more terrible and wonderful. Drones can be used to deliver supplies or medicine, search for survivors, and give humans views that would otherwise be impossible. They can also be used to target the most vulnerable points of an opponent's infrastructure.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:25 pm 
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What kind of drones were used?

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:39 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What kind of drones were used?

- Doc

Houthi rebels have been using drones in combat since the start of the Saudi-led war. The first appeared to be off-the-shelf, hobby-kit-style drones. Later, versions nearly identical to Iranian models turned up. Iran denies supplying the Houthis with weapons, although the U.N., the West and Gulf Arab nations say Tehran does.

U.N. investigators said the Houthis' new UAV-X drone likely has a range of up to 1,500 kilometers (930 miles). That puts the far reaches of both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates in range.


https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/artic ... 439199.php

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:41 pm 
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Even better.

The Iranian-backed Houthis, who hold Yemen's capital, Sanaa, and other territory in the Arab world's poorest country, took responsibility for the attacks in the war against a Saudi-led coalition that has fought since 2015 to reinstate the internationally recognized Yemeni government. But the U.S. blamed Iran, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeting, "There is no evidence the attacks came from Yemen."

"Iran has now launched an unprecedented attack on the world's energy supply," Pompeo added.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:28 am 
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It appears to be yet another undesirable consequence of Trump's ill considered decision to withdraw from the Iran agreement, whose most likely motivation was Trump's petty and childish decision to destroy or undermine anything, whether good or bad, with which Obama had anything to do. Nevertheless, in this action I sympathize more with the Yemenis than with Saudi Arabia.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:13 am 
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Quote:
whose most likely motivation was Trump's petty and childish decision to destroy or undermine anything, whether good or bad


Even some Democrats agreed that the Iran "Deal," was a terrible agreement for the US. It's not a right wing fringe view. As sweet a deal as this was for Iran, they still wouldn't hold up their end of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:01 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
As sweet a deal as this was for Iran, they still wouldn't hold up their end of it.


Which is no doubt why the Trump administration certified in April and July 2017 that Iran was in compliance with the terms of the deal.

But then Netanyahu came to call ...

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:08 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
Even some Democrats agreed that the Iran "Deal," was a terrible agreement for the US. It's not a right wing fringe view.

What specifically about the agreement was terrible for the US?

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As sweet a deal as this was for Iran, they still wouldn't hold up their end of it.

By all verifiable measures, they were adhering to the agreement, which is one of the reasons why no other nations immediately withdrew when the US did.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:40 am 
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Chap wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
As sweet a deal as this was for Iran, they still wouldn't hold up their end of it.


Which is no doubt why the Trump administration certified in April and July 2017 that Iran was in compliance with the terms of the deal.

But then Netanyahu came to call ...


That's it right there. Netanyahu and Adelson (Las Vegas billionaire backer of Trump and Netanyahu) are bent on pushing us into war with Iran.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:40 am 
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The US pulling out of the deal and slapping on new sanctions also put Iran in a catch 22. They couldn't dispose of the material they were allowed to generate under the deal now, forcing them to eventually exceed the cap in the deal. Basically the Trump admin forced them into a situation where they were going to break one of the conditions for compliance which they ended up doing this spring. But they told everyone in advance that it was coming, that they couldn't do anything about it if the US didn't offer relief.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:53 am 
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I always find it a conundrum that a country that has enshrined the "right to bear arms" as a principal right, then seeks to denies other nations the option to seek parity in arms they can bring to the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:05 pm 
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SteelHead wrote:
I always find it a conundrum that a country that has enshrined the "right to bear arms" as a principal right, then seeks to denies other nations the option to seek parity in arms they can bring to the field.

I don't. In the name of every dead and dismembered American soldier I'd disarm anyone who even breathed a threat to the soldiers occupying foreign lands. Foreign nationals aren't citizens and aren't entitled to the same rights. They're lucky we allowed them to live.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:55 pm 
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The rights of the constitution's Bill of rights are "self evident" human rights that we as Americans believe apply to all humans, not just citizens. Locke referred to them as "natural rights", and it usually the NRA types who invoke his (Locke's) arguments in debates around gun ownership. Natural/human rights exist regardless of citizenship.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:40 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
Foreign nationals aren't citizens and aren't entitled to the same rights. They're lucky we allowed them to live.

SteelHead wrote:
The rights of the constitution's Bill of rights are "self evident" human rights that we as Americans believe apply to all humans, not just citizens.
Nice try: the Bill of Rights invokes the term 'inalienable' which (when properly translated) means can't be used by aliens. Next!
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Locke referred to them as "natural rights" ...
Locke was a non-citizen, and he's just lucky we let him live. Next!


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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm 
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Ok, that made me LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:59 pm 
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SteelHead wrote:
The rights of the constitution's Bill of rights are "self evident" human rights that we as Americans believe apply to all humans, not just citizens. Locke referred to them as "natural rights", and it usually the NRA types who invoke his (Locke's) arguments in debates around gun ownership. Natural/human rights exist regardless of citizenship.

It just seems like common sense that if we're going to occupy a hostile foreign country that we would take their guns away. If we're not willing to do that why are we putting our troops in harms way there?

It seems as if the left is more likely to take the guns away from law biding American citizens than they are an Iraqi militant civilian by day soldier by night. It's crazy. Why would anyone be willing to fight and die for a country that cares so little about its soldiers?

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Remember when the Right collectively sharted their britches when Obama supposedly bowed too far horizontally to some foreign leader?

Today, Trump writes:

“There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”

It’s awesome that Trump places the United States at the heel of the Kigdom of Saudi Arabia, to await their orders on who to attack, and when, on their command. :rolleyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:36 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
It just seems like common sense that if we're going to occupy a hostile foreign country that we would take their guns away. If we're not willing to do that why are we putting our troops in harms way there?

It seems as if the left is more likely to take the guns away from law biding American citizens than they are an Iraqi militant civilian by day soldier by night. It's crazy. Why would anyone be willing to fight and die for a country that cares so little about its soldiers?

Just begging the question of why we are occupying hostile foreign countries. Which country that we are currently occupying have we declared war upon? Are we occupying Iran? Why do they not have the "natural right" to defend themselves with the same weapons we have at our disposal?

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Just begging the question of why we are occupying hostile foreign countries.

Because of the erroneous view of GWB that we could set up democracy in an Islamic country as a means of preventing future threats against our national security from a brutal dictator like Sadaam Hussein.

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Why do they not have the "natural right" to defend themselves with the same weapons we have at our disposal?

I suppose they do have that right inasmuch as they can defend it. But do you really want to live in a world where Iran has nuclear weapons that can reach the US or even Israel? I think if we're powerful enough to take that right away from them, we should while we still can.

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:46 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
Just begging the question of why we are occupying hostile foreign countries.

Because of the erroneous view of GWB that we could set up democracy in an Islamic country as a means of preventing future threats against our national security from a brutal dictator like Sadaam Hussein.

Quote:
Why do they not have the "natural right" to defend themselves with the same weapons we have at our disposal?

I suppose they do have that right inasmuch as they can defend it. But do you really want to live in a world where Iran has nuclear weapons that can reach the US or even Israel? I think if we're powerful enough to take that right away from them, we should while we still can.

What right do we have to do so? What empowers us to deny a nation self determination?

The only country to use nuclear weapons as part of a war/conflict to date is......?

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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical Warfare
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Well, if we're going to engage in asymmetrical warfare, might I suggest we send Floridaman and a box of tranquilizers to Iran?

Image

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