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 Post subject: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Trump ends life-saving "medical deferred action" program.
Quote:
Rachel Maddow reports on the Trump administration's abrupt ending of the "medical deferred action" program that allows non-citizens to remain in the U.S. to continue receiving life-saving treatment. Families in this program are being given 33 days to leave the country, a death sentence in some cases.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:27 am 
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He's inhumane because he's barely human.

Where is the fatal plaque buildup in his major arteries when we need it most?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:50 am 
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Gunnar wrote:
Trump ends life-saving "medical deferred action" program.
Quote:
Rachel Maddow reports on the Trump administration's abrupt ending of the "medical deferred action" program that allows non-citizens to remain in the U.S. to continue receiving life-saving treatment. Families in this program are being given 33 days to leave the country, a death sentence in some cases.

I started watching that segment, and I had to turn it off. It was just too upsetting.

There are policies and actions Trump takes that are so spiteful and hateful it is difficult to understand his motivation. Who in this country is suffering because we let people in for medical treatment? The doctors and nurses? Is this how we Make America Great Again? On what planet? In which universe?

There's an old George Harrison Song, I Me Mine:

Quote:
All through' the day
I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
All through' the night
I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Now they're frightened of leaving it
Ev'ryone's weaving it,
Coming on strong all the time,
All through' the day I me mine.


I think I Me Mine should be Trump's campaign song. Make America Great is 'I Me MIne' writ large.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:24 am 
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Here is a more comprehensive report if you can stomach viewing it.
Stephen Miller is undoubtedly behind this change in policy. Some commentators said he should be tried at The Hague for this policy. So should Trump IMHO! Hopefully there are enough members in Congress sufficiently outraged by this to pass legislation halting this change in policy by a veto proof margin.

ETA: The people getting these notifications telling them they must leave in 33 days include patients who came here legally on visitors' visas expressly for life-saving medical procedures not available in their home countries. Among the patients listed, for example, is a 14 year old girl who came here for heart surgery, and is now between surgeries, and needs further follow up and recovery that requires more than the time permitted by these notifications.

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Last edited by Gunnar on Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:40 am 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
He's inhumane because he's barely human.

Where is the fatal plaque buildup in his major arteries when we need it most?

I question whether there would be significant improvement if Pence replaced Trump, should the latter die in office before the end of his term.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:59 am 
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Gunnar wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
He's inhumane because he's barely human.

Where is the fatal plaque buildup in his major arteries when we need it most?

I question whether there would be significant improvement if Pence replaced Trump, should the latter die in office before the end of his term.

Pence would render Trumpism impotent and leaderless. I know it wouldn't be much better.

But the fact is, if you've got a cancerous tumor, you have it removed, whether you think there's another tumor to take its place or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:10 am 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Pence would render Trumpism impotent and leaderless. I know it wouldn't be much better.

But the fact is, if you've got a cancerous tumor, you have it removed, whether you think there's another tumor to take its place or not.

Excellent analogy!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:18 am 
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Subby, Ajax, Bach & other diehard Trumpists, are you willing to acknowledge the inherent inhumanity of this heartless policy development?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:16 am 
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Does anyone think the man is totally losing it right now? As in slipping? As in either he's losing it or he desperately wants out of the 2020 race?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:43 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Does anyone think the man is totally losing it right now? As in slipping? As in either he's losing it or he desperately wants out of the 2020 race?

As I am sure you are aware, this is not the first time we have discussed this possibility on this very forum. There have been strong suggestions that Trump never wanted to win the Presidency in the first place. Trump Was Horrified When He Won the White House and Melania Cried, Book Claims.
Quote:
Trump's longtime friend and former head of Fox News Roger Ailes used to say "if you want a career in television, first run for president." And that's just what Trump did, with plans to start a news network and become "the most famous man in the world."

A week before the election, Trump was sure he would lose the presidency. But still, according to Wolff's book, he told Ailes that it was "bigger than I ever dreamed of. I don't think about losing, because it isn't losing. We've totally won."

Then he actually won.

I have doubts that that strategy would have worked for him, had he lost the election, though, given the numerous bankruptcies and failed business ventures he started before he ever ran for President.

Like you, I have also wondered whether he is actually trying to lose the 2020 election given some the extreme and unpopular (except among his sycophantic loyal base) positions he has taken. Yet, that would seem rather foolish of him, given that with all the potentially indictable and prosecutable things he has done before and while in office, it seems likely that winning the presidency again may be the only way he can reasonably expect to avoid or postpone arrest, prosecution and imprisonment, right after the election.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:24 am 
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Quote:
include patients who came here legally on visitors' visas expressly for life-saving medical procedures not available in their home countries


Can they go to a western European country that offers superior healthcare to the US?

Gunnar how much have do you think you could personally contribute for a few of these folks to pay for treatment in their own countries where the healthcare is much better than in the US?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:20 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
include patients who came here legally on visitors' visas expressly for life-saving medical procedures not available in their home countries


Can they go to a western European country that offers superior healthcare to the US?

Undoubtedly Western European countries also help patients not of their country who need special medical help not obtainable in their own country. So what? How does that in any way diminish the inhumanity of the Trump administration policy change reported in my OP? Besides that, no one is saying that healthcare treatment in Western European countries is generally more advanced or effective than the best treatment available in the USA. Only more affordable and, in many cases, more widely available.

ajax18 wrote:
Gunnar how much have do you think you could personally contribute for a few of these folks to pay for treatment in their own countries where the healthcare is much better than in the US?

You want me to give you a dollar amount of how much I am willing to contribute to help these patients? Are you implying I would not be willing to do so if offered the opportunity? Besides that, if the specialized treatment they needed were available in their own countries, this would be a non issue and they would probably have gotten it there. In any case, I don't think it is right to deport them merely because they are sick or deny them life-saving treatment merely because they are immigrants, whether documented or not.

As if things were not already insane enough: Deportation Threatens Life Of Immigrant Who Helped FDA Research
Quote:
Rachel Maddow reports on the circumstances of Isabel Bueso, who was asked to participate in a medical trial for her rare genetic disease. Her extraordinary life depends on continued medical treatments that would end abruptly if the Trump administration succeeds in deporting her.


Helping these patients not only is the humane and commendable thing to do, they, in some case, help advancement of medical knowledge and treatment, which can potentially help all people, U.S. legal residents and citizens or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:39 pm 
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You want me to give you a dollar amount of how much I am willing to contribute to help these patients? Are you implying I would not be willing to do so if offered the opportunity?


Well how much did you contribute?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:51 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
You want me to give you a dollar amount of how much I am willing to contribute to help these patients? Are you implying I would not be willing to do so if offered the opportunity?


Well how much did you contribute?

You're merely trying to deflect from the point of the op that this policy is unconscionable and deliberately cruel, and that you are a heartless and incorrigible bigot for being OK with it, like your idol, Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:11 pm 
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Gunnar wrote:
Trump ends life-saving "medical deferred action" program.
Quote:
Rachel Maddow reports on the Trump administration's abrupt ending of the "medical deferred action" program that allows non-citizens to remain in the U.S. to continue receiving life-saving treatment. Families in this program are being given 33 days to leave the country, a death sentence in some cases.


Trump's being an a-hole again? Shocking.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:59 am 
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You're merely trying to deflect from the point of the op that this policy is unconscionable and deliberately cruel, and that you are a heartless and incorrigible bigot for being OK with it, like your idol, Trump.


The point is that if it's such an extreme situation why aren't you doing anything about it yourself and how are you any better than anyone else who turns away a beggar?

Can you be as generous with your own money as you are with other peoples money?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:18 pm 
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I dunno, Ajax. You ever take out a mortgage? You refuse medicaid from clients?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Doc, I'm sure ajax would not refuse money from any source, any more than his idol Trump would. It is giving up any money for anything that does not directly benefit him that he is opposed to.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:32 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
The point is that if it's such an extreme situation why aren't you doing anything about it yourself and how are you any better than anyone else who turns away a beggar?


What a heartless and insensitive remark!

Helping to spread the word about this cruel atrocity is one thing I am doing about it. If enough people hear about it and become sufficiently and justifiably outraged about it to succeed in stopping it, that will accomplish much more than any individual monetary contribution I could possibly make or have made. And you have no idea how much I contribute or don't contribute to help others worse off than myself. I have no obligation to divulge such personal information to you! It is none of your business!

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Last edited by Gunnar on Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Quote:


Helping to spread the word about this cruel atrocity is one thing I am doing about it. If enough people hear about it and become sufficiently and justifiably outraged about it to succeed in stopping it, that will accomplish much more than any individual monetary contribution I could possibly make or have made.


I wonder if these crippled immigrants agree. I know plenty of people who would be outraged enough to raise their neighbor's taxes. But how many would be outraged enough to pay more taxes themselves? If there are any, what is stopping them from paying more now? How many would postpone their retirements?

When does the nation draw a line on handouts? Is $20 trillion in debt not enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Most Inhumane Act Yet?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:35 pm 
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Ajax, The money it would take to help these people is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions and even trillions in subsidies and tax breaks that the government already gives to already immensely wealthy corporations like the fossil fuel industry that would thrive quite well without it. It would in no way hurt the economy to divert some of that corporate welfare money to people like this who actually need it. If my taxes go up a bit to make life a bit less intolerable for or even save the lives of the disabled, so be it. I am far from a wealthy man, but my tax burden is not so onerous that I can't afford to pay a bit more if some of that tax money is used to help people who can't help themselves, or enable them to become able to help themselves and contribute positively to society. If you were the father of a beloved child needing medical intervention to save its life that costs far more than you could even begin to afford, would you turn down government assistance for that, if there were no other option?

Please stop being a cruel, thoughtless and heartless bigot like Trump!

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No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Last edited by Gunnar on Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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