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Is Trump unraveling?
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52229
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Author:  moksha [ Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

From now on NOAA will be required to make this disclaimer: "No matter if the hurricane is of Category 5 velocity, it is not as large as President Trump's hand size."

Author:  Res Ipsa [ Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

This begs the question of whether he was ever raveled to begin with.

Author:  moksha [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

EAllusion wrote:
Trump does something horrible.

Subgenius: Brilliant. This distracts from all the other horrible things he's doing. Now you won't know about how horrible he is being.

Normal people: We're aware of those things too.

Subgenius. *covers ears* Brilliant.

Subgenius - Emperor Trump wears only the finest clothes. 80% of only the Republicans can see how resplendent he looks in them.

Author:  DarkHelmet [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

moksha wrote:
Trump bullied the NOAA into lying for him:

NOAA staff warned in Sept. 1 directive against contradicting Trump
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/noaa-staff-warned-in-sept-1-directive-against-contradicting-trump/ar-AAGXulF?ocid=spartanntp

Making scientists back up the stupid and unnecessary lies told by Trump is totally wrong. It was bad enough that Trump has subverted the DoJ and other govt agencies. Must he contaminate everything?


THe White House pressuring NOAA to back the president over its own scientists is the ugliest part of this story. I appreciate subbie pointing this out for us.

Author:  Doctor CamNC4Me [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

EAllusion wrote:
Trump does something horrible.

Subgenius: Brilliant. This distracts from all the other horrible things he's doing. Now you won't know about how horrible he is being.

Normal people: We're aware of those things too.

Subgenius. *covers ears* Brilliant.


I think subgenius gets sucked into the narrative his Conservative echo chambers like to create about Liberals or Progressives. A true and effective attempt to trigger progressive-minded people would be to rip children from their parents and stick them in cages, AND THEN revel in the audacity of the outrage-inducing actions.

What he's seeing and lapping up is the carefully crafted false, stereotyped, hyperbolized image of progressive-minded people, specifically designed to show conservative-minded people, for the purpose of insinuating that anyone progressive is primarily concerned with trivial issues like whether you have access to straws when sucking up a steak topped with a light bulb. Thanks Laura Ingraham for sticking it to the Libs!

It is a deliberate propaganda campaign aimed at delegitimizing and reducing your opponent to a caricature. You then mock the caricature instead of any substantial quality of the opponent, because punching the fake version of them that you made up is easier. The goal is not to be seen by Progressives and anger them. The goal is to be seen by Conservatives, so that they can continue ignoring criticism and protest against the actions of Republicans by buying into the delegitimizing propaganda that "these people only care about stupid ____, look how easy it is to rile them, see how trivial things make them angry!" Think of those Ben Garrison cartoons:

Image

And that's a tame one compared to most of his imagery.

So, it's kind of like discussing Mormonism with Mormons. This is all they have left. They abandoned any pretense of having a serious talk years ago when their base made it clear that they don't want serious talks, they want punching. It's a circus and whether it's losing their ____ over Obama or Hillary, or holding up a D-fence sign when it comes to Trump, the Conservative media is happy to deliver to their fans.

- Doc

Author:  canpakes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

DarkHelmet wrote:
The White House pressuring NOAA to back the president over its own scientists is the ugliest part of this story. I appreciate subbie pointing this out for us.


There has been some blowback on that, of course, from the rational folks who don’t see a need for Wilbur Ross’s Commerce Department politicizing the weather forecast to cover Presidential butthurt:

https://twitter.com/pres_nwseo/status/1 ... 1388719105

Remember, when the President acts like an immature ass and then pressures Government agencies into becoming extensions of partisan hackery in creating a safe space for Trump’s special kind of snowflakiness, then this is ‘owning the libs’. ; )

Author:  Perfume on my Mind [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Only a moron wouldn't see that the unsigned NOAA statement was an attempt to satisfy and shut the President the ____ up. A moron would actually use it as a defense of Trump's whiny complaints over his own obvious ____ up.

I know this because I see subs did just that.

Author:  canpakes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Only a moron wouldn't see that the unsigned NOAA statement was an attempt to satisfy and shut the President the ____ up. A moron would actually use it as a defense of Trump's whiny complaints over his own obvious ____ up.

I know this because I see subs did just that.

NOAA director of public affairs, Julie Kay Roberts, worked on Trump’s Presidential campaign team.

Now, who couldn’t see that coming? ; )

Author:  subgenius [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

canpakes wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Only a moron wouldn't see that the unsigned NOAA statement was an attempt to satisfy and shut the President the ____ up. A moron would actually use it as a defense of Trump's whiny complaints over his own obvious ____ up.

I know this because I see subs did just that.

NOAA director of public affairs, Julie Kay Roberts, worked on Trump’s Presidential campaign team.

Now, who couldn’t see that coming? ; )

So, of course...yep, finally your logic is currently supporting the Clinton kill list.

Author:  moksha [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Secretary of Commerce threatened to fire top employees at the federal scientific agency responsible for weather forecasts last Friday after the agency’s Birmingham office contradicted President Trump’s claim that Hurricane Dorian might hit Alabama, according to three people familiar with the discussion.

That threat led to an unusual, unsigned statement later that Friday by the agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, disavowing the National Weather Service’s position that Alabama was not at risk. The reversal caused widespread anger within the agency and drew accusations from the scientific community that the National Weather Service, which is part of NOAA, had been bent to political purposes.

NOAA’s statement on Friday is now being examined by the Commerce Department’s Office of Inspector General, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times, and employees have been asked to preserve their files. NOAA is a division of the Commerce Department.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/commerce-chief-threatened-firings-at-noaa-after-trumps-hurricane-tweets-sources-say/ar-AAH2AlS?

Politicizing the weather based on Mr. Trump's uncontrollable need to lie seems laughable, pathetic, and scary all at the same time. I imagine Commerce Secretary Ross will be resigning within the next month.

Author:  moksha [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Quote:
The number of such stops by Air Force planes at Prestwick rose from 180 in 2017 to 257 last year and 259 so far this year. The 259 stops this year included 220 overnight stays. Since October 2017, records show 917 payments for expenses including fuel at the airport worth a total of $17.2 million.

Air Force officials could not say on Monday how many times military crews had been sent to Trump Turnberry, but added that they are now going through vouchers to come up with such a count.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-had-arrangement-with-airport-that-sent-flight-crews-to-his-resort-in-scotland/ar-AAH2Tdh?

Author:  canpakes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
NOAA director of public affairs, Julie Kay Roberts, worked on Trump’s Presidential campaign team.

Now, who couldn’t see that coming? ; )

So, of course...yep, finally your logic is currently supporting the Clinton kill list.

No, there were no Clintons involved here, but it’s fun to see you try to inject your weird conspiratorial rantings about them into the topic. : D

Author:  canpakes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

moksha wrote:
I imagine Commerce Secretary Ross will be resigning within the next month.

Nope. He’ll hang in there. In the private sector, there isn’t as much demand for sycophantic lap dogs required to beat down legitimate folks doing legitimate work in order to appease the frantic and tremendously fragile ego of one’s boss. Wilbur’s present job is his best chance to remain employed in that capacity.

Author:  EAllusion [ Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Doc - I agree with the general idea of what you are saying, but subgenius is (and has routinely) employed this rhetorical strategy against legitimate issues. This is an example of that. Trump's ability to weaponize even basic weather reporting in an Orwellian fashion is actually quite serious. It's not a trivial distraction from things that are. Subgenius uses this move more as a weapon to describe anything as trivial even when it is not. The idea is if you complain about anything, you're being subtly owned by Trump because there are a whole range of other serious things you could be talking about too that Trump is distracting you from. The sheer volume of unethical, incompetent, and impeachable offenses Trump is engaging in allows him to pick any individual case and trivialize it by claiming that you are focusing on that trivial matter to distract from a take your pick of other serious things.

Anywho, here's a op-ed in the New York Times that gets at why this particular issue is serious:

Quote:
Democracies used to collapse suddenly, with tanks rolling noisily toward the presidential palace. In the 21st century, however, the process is usually subtler.

Authoritarianism is on the march across much of the world, but its advance tends to be relatively quiet and gradual, so that it’s hard to point to a single moment and say, this is the day democracy ended. You just wake up one morning and realize that it’s gone.

In their 2018 book “How Democracies Die,” the political scientists Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt documented how this process has played out in many countries, from Vladimir Putin’s Russia, to Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Turkey, to Viktor Orban’s Hungary. Bit by bit the guardrails of democracy were torn down, as institutions meant to serve the public became tools of the ruling party, then were weaponized to punish and intimidate that party’s opponents. On paper these countries are still democracies; in practice they have become one-party regimes.

And the events of the past week have demonstrated how this can happen right here in America.

At first Sharpiegate, Donald Trump’s inability to admit that he misstated a weather projection by claiming that Alabama was at risk from Hurricane Dorian, was kind of funny, even though it was also scary — it’s not reassuring when the president of the United States can’t face reality. But it stopped being any kind of joke on Friday, when the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration issued a statement falsely backing up Trump’s claim that it had warned about an Alabama threat.

Why is this frightening? Because it shows that even the leadership of NOAA, which should be the most technical and apolitical of agencies, is now so subservient to Trump that it’s willing not just to overrule its own experts but to lie, simply to avoid a bit of presidential embarrassment.

Think about it: If even weather forecasters are expected to be apologists for Dear Leader, the corruption of our institutions is truly complete.

Which brings me to a much more important case, the Justice Department’s decision to investigate automakers for the crime of trying to act responsibly.

[For an even deeper look at what’s on Paul Krugman’s mind, sign up for his weekly newsletter.]

The story so far: As part of its jihad against environmental regulation, the Trump administration has declared its intention to roll back Obama-era rules mandating a gradual rise in fuel efficiency.

You might think that the auto industry would welcome this invitation to keep on polluting. In fact, however, automakers have already based their business plans on the assumption that fuel efficiency standards will indeed rise.

They don’t like seeing their plans upended — in part, one suspects, because they understand that the reality of climate change will eventually force the reinstatement of those rules. So they have actually opposed Trump’s deregulation, which they warn would lead to “an extended period of litigation and instability.”

And several companies have gone beyond protesting. In a remarkable rebuke to the administration, they have reached an agreement with the State of California to comply with standards nearly as restrictive as the Obama rules even if the federal government is no longer requiring them.

Now, according to The Wall Street Journal, the Justice Department is considering bringing an antitrust action against those companies, as if agreeing on environmental standards were a crime comparable to, say, price-fixing.

This would be disturbing even if it came from an administration that had previously showed some interest in actual antitrust policy. Coming from people who heretofore haven’t indicated any concerns about monopoly power, it’s clearly an attempt at weaponizing antitrust actions, turning them into a tool of intimidation.

And it’s also clear evidence that the Justice Department has been thoroughly corrupted. In less than three years it has been transformed from an agency that tries to enforce the law to an organization dedicated to punishing Trump’s opponents.

Who’s next? In at least two cases, Trump appears to have tried to use his power to punish Amazon, whose founder, Jeff Bezos, owns The Washington Post, which the president considers (like this newspaper) to be an enemy. First he pushed for an increase in the post office’s package shipping rates, which would hurt Amazon’s delivery costs; then the Pentagon suddenly announced that it was re-examining the process for awarding a huge cloud-computing project that Amazon was widely expected to win.

In each case it’s hard to prove that these were efforts to weaponize government functions against domestic critics. But who are we kidding? Of course they were.

The point is that this is how the slide to autocracy happens. Modern de facto dictatorships don’t usually murder their opponents (although Trump has been fulsome in his praise for regimes that do, in fact, rely on brute force). What they do, instead, is use their control over the machinery of government to make life difficult for anyone considered disloyal, until effective opposition withers away.

And it’s happening here as we speak. If you aren’t worried about the future of American democracy, you aren’t paying attention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/opin ... cracy.html

Author:  canpakes [ Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Quote:
The point is that this is how the slide to autocracy happens. Modern de facto dictatorships don’t usually murder their opponents (although Trump has been fulsome in his praise for regimes that do, in fact, rely on brute force). What they do, instead, is use their control over the machinery of government to make life difficult for anyone considered disloyal, until effective opposition withers away.

At the risk of some oversimplification, this is pretty much why folks like subs are attracted to Trump and will sycophantically defend any of Trump’s or his Administration’s actions. They're driven by a need to punish or snuff out dissent, given their perception of injury imposed by others that merely exist or think outside of their ideological or theological tribe, as opposed to any actual imposition or injury:

> Those folks hold different religious opinions than I do. That offends me, and they must be punished.

> Those folks are poorer/browner than I am. They’re going to take my stuff, so they must be punished.

> Those folks are gay/transgender/whatever is different than my sexual preference. That scares and offends me, so they must be punished.

‘Punished’, in this case, ranges and scales from any action that is interpreted to deny a privilege or accommodation of any type that would otherwise be available to the unworthy.

This is often justified theologically, which is why you’ll never see folks like subs remove any post or image that they’ve added to the board that is subsequently proven to be an outright fabrication or lie. There may be occasions where that material was posted out of ignorance, but it is more typically posted as an act of willful dishonesty.

Most Trump voters that I’ve run into use a version of one or more of the three reasons above to justify their support of Trump.

Author:  Doctor CamNC4Me [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... d-trump-on

Quote:
The Times, citing three unidentified sources, reported that after the directive came down from Mulvaney, Ross called acting NOAA Administrator Neil Jacobs to tell him to ensure the agency backed Trump.

When Jacobs objected, he was told the NOAA’s political appointees would be fired if it was not carried out, according to the newspaper.


If the New York Times is telling the truth, welp, there you go.

- Doc

Author:  MeDotOrg [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Res Ipsa wrote:
This begs the question of whether he was ever raveled to begin with.

I question whether or not the President was ever raveled, kempt or sheveled.

Author:  Perfume on my Mind [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Now he's rolling back clean water regulations.

He's an epic ____ asshole who does not deserve to live. He does absolutely nothing to make the world a better place, but does plenty to make it worse.

Christ I wish the ____ moron would just die already.

Author:  Res Ipsa [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

He’s having a rough patch. Even his African American has deserted him. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/m ... ican-party

Author:  canpakes [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Now he's rolling back clean water regulations.

Ha! Owning the libs by making folks drink crappier water! MAGA!!1!

Author:  moksha [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Trump unraveling?

canpakes wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Now he's rolling back clean water regulations.

Ha! Owning the libs by making folks drink crappier water! MAGA!!1!

Stephen Miller probably suggested that increased levels of lead in drinking water will lead to more Trump voters.

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