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 Post subject: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:34 am 
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/04/us/dayto ... index.html

9 dead, 16 injured
Shooter dead

Can't copy the text for some reason.

Please add info/commentary if you'd like.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:13 am 
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2 mass shootings in 24 hours, 4? within a week......

We are a broken lot.

Perhaps it is time to have a discussion about gun control?

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:27 am 
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SteelHead wrote:
2 mass shootings in 24 hours, 4? within a week......

We are a broken lot.

Perhaps it is time to have a discussion about gun control?

way to jump to politicizing...and brilliant how you link "we are broken" to "fix it with gun control"....as if the legal access to guns is what the problem is.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:31 am 
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Let's have a discussion about gun control but let's also research and study what drives these crazies to basically commit suicide by cop. Even so, I don't think we all need the most powerful automatic weapons in order to uphold the 2nd amendment.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:41 am 
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Sorry subs I am not politicizing anything. When we can't go to a music venue, a community festival, or Walmart without the risk of being shot - it is time to evaluate causes and seek solutions.

I'm in El Paso this weekend. The reports of an active shooter went out during the event I am attending. This community is reeling. This type of ____ needs to stop.

And by broken, how many mass shootings are going to have to happen before we as a culture decide to actually do something to remediate the problem?

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:24 am 
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I read the El Palso shooters manifesto. It’s stereotypical online alt-right beliefs. You could paraphrase 95% of what he has to say from Ajax posts. That’s not hyperbole. The key difference is that he reasons out that the best way to deter Hispanic immigration given current political reality is by creating a deterrent by subjecting them to the risk of random violence and cruelty. If enough people do this, he reasons, it fundamentally alters the risk benefit analysis of coming to the US for economic opportunities. He then reasons, correctly, that state policy does this. He then asks himself and the reader why is it ok when states use violent deterrence as a tool of social policy, but wrong when vigilantes do it?

It’s a pretty small leap from what is normal in, say, Brietbart comments sections to what he’s thinking. That’s a little unnerving. It’s to the point that his manifesto existing in those social networks is dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:01 am 
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I'd just like to add a personal note here. Yesterday, I wrote a lengthy post about mental health and illness here in Paradise. I wrote about how we lost a family member to suicide.

One of the hospitals mentioned in the current Dayton shooting (where many of the injured were taken) is where our family member died. Gunshot wound to the head.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:11 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
He then reasons, correctly, that state policy does this. He then asks himself and the reader why is it ok when states violent deterrence as a tool of social policy, but wrong when vigilantes do it?

It’s a pretty small leap from what is normal in, say, Brietbart comments sections to what he’s thinking. That’s a little unnerving. It’s to the point that his manifesto existing in those social networks is dangerous.
This is one of the more disturbing things I've seen. His comment and question are terrifying if extrapolated to natural conclusions run amok among a population that views themselves through conflicting lenses of entitlement and oppression.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:13 am 
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During our family experience I became friends with someone there in Dayton. We still are friends. War veteran. She's posted an image of a pile of shoes laying in the street outside of Ned Peppers's Bar there. Here's her comment:

This photo rips my heart out.
Pure terror for your life when you literally run out of your shoes.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:22 am 
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subgenius wrote:
way to jump to politicizing...and brilliant how you link "we are broken" to "fix it with gun control"....as if the legal access to guns is what the problem is.

Your post could not be a better example of ‘politicizing’.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:35 am 
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SteelHead wrote:
Sorry subs I am not politicizing anything. When we can't go to a music venue, a community festival, or Walmart without the risk of being shot - it is time to evaluate causes and seek solutions.

I'm in El Paso this weekend. The reports of an active shooter went out during the event I am attending. This community is reeling. This type of ____ needs to stop.

And by broken, how many mass shootings are going to have to happen before we as a culture decide to actually do something to remediate the problem?

I was not disputing the existence of a problem. But the brainwashed hair fire reaction of "gun control" is sophomoric....and your post is quick to politicize a problem for superficial gains. You literally move the goalposts on your sentiment about "we are broken", and simply turn your post into a shallow call to vote on a platform that does not apply. Your proposed argument is flawed and weak, yet you will continue to go to the dry well because its really the only bucket the DNC has on these matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:52 am 
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subgenius wrote:
I was not disputing the existence of a problem. But the brainwashed hair fire reaction of "gun control" is sophomoric....and your post is quick to politicize a problem for superficial gains.
You literally move the goalposts on your sentiment about "we are broken", and simply turn your post into a shallow call to vote on a platform that does not apply.
Your proposed argument is flawed and weak, yet you will continue to go to the dry well because its really the only bucket the DNC has on these matters.

Interesting. Your history of posts within this board is the best display of intentional deception and cumpulsive insulting, but here you go again with reverting to the only routine you know in the wake of this event.

Your behavior and characterizations are a great example of what fosters the mindsets of your ideological fellows to culminate in these sorts of events.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:55 am 
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Shooter killed his own sister. Age 22.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:58 am 
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Quote:
Sanders: I asked McConnell to end recess right now

State of the Union

Presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) tells CNN's Jake Tapper that some people in the US see President Trump's racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric as "a sign to do terrible, terrible things.


Video has more commentary.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 ... -13-hours/

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:01 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
But the brainwashed hair fire reaction of "gun control" is sophomoric....and your post is quick to politicize a problem for superficial gains. You literally move the goalposts on your sentiment about "we are broken", and simply turn your post into a shallow call to vote on a platform that does not apply. Your proposed argument is flawed and weak, yet you will continue to go to the dry well because its really the only bucket the DNC has on these matters.

No. It is not sophomoric. No, it is not a platform that does not apply.

While it's not the only measure we need to be taking, gun control absolutely is part of that necessary and responsible response.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
While it's not the only measure we need to be taking, gun control absolutely is part of that necessary and responsible response.

I think Democrats should start making the association between mass shootings and universal health care. If the root of the problem is mental health, shouldn't we be doing everything we can to get these crazy shooters the help they need before they go nuts and start killing people?

GOP: Empty thoughts and prayers

Democrats: We need universal mental health care!

They should repeat that and Moscow Mitch daily until the election.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
subgenius wrote:
But the brainwashed hair fire reaction of "gun control" is sophomoric....and your post is quick to politicize a problem for superficial gains. You literally move the goalposts on your sentiment about "we are broken", and simply turn your post into a shallow call to vote on a platform that does not apply. Your proposed argument is flawed and weak, yet you will continue to go to the dry well because its really the only bucket the DNC has on these matters.

No. It is not sophomoric. No, it is not a platform that does not apply.

While it's not the only measure we need to be taking, gun control absolutely is part of that necessary and responsible response.

How so? we have good, sensible, and stringent "gun control" in many places where violence with a gun is a serious problem. You guys are liiterally oblivious to the similarity of how you effectively are just chanting "build that wall" at guns. Its funny, but its also useless except for campaign fundraising. But perhaps im relyung to much on empirical evidence...maybe you guys can explain how "gun control" would solve the problem?, a problem that has yet to be articulated by the way....aside from the rhetorical Ross Perot approach of proposing policy via an exclamation of "we are broken".

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
While it's not the only measure we need to be taking, gun control absolutely is part of that necessary and responsible response.

I think Democrats should start making the association between mass shootings and universal health care. If the root of the problem is mental health, shouldn't we be doing everything we can to get these crazy shooters the help they need before they go nuts and start killing people?

GOP: Empty thoughts and prayers

Democrats: We need universal mental health care!

They should repeat that and Moscow Mitch daily until the election.


YES. I touched on mental health here yesterday.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52020

Mental health and gun control need to be addressed as priority. And additionally, addressing education and poverty/economy.

I think it bears mentioning that in most of these shootings, we are looking at young men whose brains have yet to fully develop (frontal lobe--executive function) when mental illness often rears it's ugly head. Schizophrenia, bi polar, depression/anxiety.

Just like my family member who suicided.

These vulnerable young men are falling through the cracks and we're giving them access to any damn weapon of their choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
You guys are liiterally oblivious to the similarity of how you effectively are just chanting "build that wall" at guns.

It’s only similar if someone is advocating that we spend hundreds of billions of dollars building a wall to protect us from gun owners.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Is there any reason to think these recent spree killings were committed by people who were mentally ill? Unless you define anyone who commits such an act as mentally ill, which you shouldn’t, I am not seeing it.

The non-mentally ill are more prone to violence than the mentally ill are. Mass shooters are not always or even typically mentally ill. It seems like a red herring to bring up.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayton Ohio Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Shooter killed his own sister. Age 22.

He was age 22, or his sister was age 22?

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