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 Post subject: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:26 pm 
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How about some Presidential achievements of which we can be proud?

Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter have been married 26,765 days — that's more than 73 years. The Carters surpassed the previous record held by former President George H.W. Bush and Barbara Bush.

That's 146 years of marriage between those two couples.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Jimmy Carter (95) and Rosalyn (92) are still helping to build houses for Habitat for Humanity. They've apparently inspired David Letterman to do the same and he's been doing it discretely himself for years.

There's a wonderful video on YT with Pres. Carter teaching Sunday School at his church. When I saw it I just got tears over what a decent and humble Christian man he is. They live modestly and have devoted their lives to public service.

Compared to you-know-who.

Here it is (2015) in case you forgot what an honest man with a servant's heart looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vGAjx7dk34

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:11 pm 
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by the way, he and Rosalyn have an exchange of "words" in the above video. Their brief bickering is actually endearing. One of his former staff is in the video.

Please. If you feel like your brain is slowly rotting from today's news. Give it a watch.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:45 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Jimmy Carter (95) and Rosalyn (92) are still helping to build houses for Habitat for Humanity. They've apparently inspired David Letterman to do the same and he's been doing it discretely himself for years.

There's a wonderful video on YT with Pres. Carter teaching Sunday School at his church. When I saw it I just got tears over what a decent and humble Christian man he is. They live modestly and have devoted their lives to public service.

Compared to you-know-who.

Here it is (2015) in case you forgot what an honest man with a servant's heart looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vGAjx7dk34

I think Jimmy Carter was very much, unfairly underrated both as a president and as a human being. He was probably not perfect for that job, but I would a thousand times rather have another Jimmy Carter as President than another Donald Trump!

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Last edited by Gunnar on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:06 pm 
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Gunnar wrote:
I think Jimmy Carter was very much, unfairly underrated both as a president and as a human being. He was probably not perfect for that job, but I would a thousand times rather have another Jimmy Carter as President than another Donald Trump!

You and me both, my friend. I was fairly young when Carter was in office. I do recall the hostage situation and the oil crisis. I don't recall an actual scandal taking place during his time in office. If there was any sort of scandal I simply don't remember it.

My heart aches when I watch videos of Obama. I'll admit that the Obama years were a blur to me due to IRL circumstances. But I do recall Osama bin Laden and do definitely recall his reaction to Sandy Hook. His compassion and empathy were deep and real.

What concerns me is that the children growing up today (ages 13 and up) will be of voting age by the time that Trump (God forbid) wins a second term and they will think that the US politics they've witness are the norm. This WILL be the norm if he wins a second term.

I pray that he doesn't get re-elected.

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Gunnar wrote:
I think Jimmy Carter was very much, unfairly underrated both as a president and as a human being. He was probably not perfect for that job, but I would a thousand times rather have another Jimmy Carter as President than another Donald Trump!

You and me both, my friend. I was fairly young when Carter was in office. I do recall the hostage situation and the oil crisis. I don't recall an actual scandal taking place during his time in office. If there was any sort of scandal I simply don't remember it.

My heart aches when I watch videos of Obama. I'll admit that the Obama years were a blur to me due to IRL circumstances. But I do recall Osama bin Laden and do definitely recall his reaction to Sandy Hook. His compassion and empathy were deep and real.

What concerns me is that the children growing up today (ages 13 and up) will be of voting age by the time that Trump (God forbid) wins a second term and they will think that the US politics they've witness are the norm. This WILL be the norm if he wins a second term.

I pray that he doesn't get re-elected.

I corrected my original post as shown in this reply. I inadvertently left out the word "not." I never meant to say that Carter was perfect. I never believed that! I'm glad to see you agree with me about Carter. We also seem to agree about Obama. He was probably not perfect either (as if either of us were qualified to judge perfection), but if it were possible to vote for him for a third term, I probably would have. He showed dignity, a love and respect and fidelity to his wife and family, plus respect for his office and political rivals that Trump could never credibly claim!

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:56 pm 
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Gunnar wrote:
I corrected my original post as shown in this reply. I inadvertently left out the word "not." I never meant to say that Carter was perfect. I never believed that! I'm glad to see you agree with me about Carter. We also seem to agree about Obama. He was probably not perfect either (as if either of us were qualified to judge perfection), but if it were possible to vote for him for a third term, I probably would have. He showed dignity, a love and respect and fidelity to his wife and family, plus respect for his office and political rivals that Trump could never credibly claim!

None of them are perfect. But we have had men of character and integrity in spite of their imperfections and errors. We don't have that now. We have trash.

I corrected my copy of your post.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 pm 
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Poor MeDot you wanted this to be a positive thread. I guess you can't have light without a little dark for contrast.

Sorry.
:sad:

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Yes. I hope Carter will be remembered in history more for his goodness and compassion than for what his opponents have unfairly said about him. And his work for Habitat for Humanity is far from the only positive thing that can be said about him. Check this out for starters: 10 Major Accomplishments of Jimmy Carter.

I have little doubt that Carter could have made much more of a positive difference had he been reelected for a second term with a more supportive congress. We might even have been well on the way to solving the problem of mitigating the worst affects of climate change by now! And I can't imagine that Carter would have handled the Mideast situation anywhere near as badly as the Republican administrations we have had since his Presidency did! I even think it may be likely that the 9/11 attack would never had occurred had the differences that Carter could have made in world diplomacy during a second term had been realized.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:47 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I corrected my copy of your post.

Thanks! :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:22 am 
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Was anyone else expecting a man with three buttocks?

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 am 
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Kittens_and_Jesus wrote:
Was anyone else expecting a man with three buttocks?

Nope. It's just you Kittens.
;-)

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:27 am 
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It is significant to me that the most Christian President is not held in high esteem by evangelicals in this country. Jimmy Carter's life has been in service to his fellow man, and yet people like Franklin Graham reserved their adoration for Donald Trump.

If you ask me, one of the most important ways the Jesus deepened the religious experience was teaching that external actions should come from the heart. "Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Pious posturing is not enough, you have to walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.

And yet that simple principle seems to be ignored by many in the Christian right when they choose Donald Trump as their champion. In many ways Donald Trump's self-aggrandizement is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus. "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal."

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:02 am 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
It is significant to me that the most Christian President is not held in high esteem by evangelicals in this country. Jimmy Carter's life has been in service to his fellow man, and yet people like Franklin Graham reserved their adoration for Donald Trump.

If you ask me, one of the most important ways the Jesus deepened the religious experience was teaching that external actions should come from the heart. "Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Pious posturing is not enough, you have to walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.

And yet that simple principle seems to be ignored by many in the Christian right when they choose Donald Trump as their champion. In many ways Donald Trump's self-aggrandizement is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus. "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal."

Call it good fortune or ill, I have associated with someone daily through work for over 10 years who is a stereotypical rightwing conservative evangelical anti-liberal, was in college in the era of Jimmy Carter and entered the work force in the Reagan era.

What I have gathered in conversations with him over the years is that Carter's failing was his inability to inspire people to chase prosperity. This associate talks derisively of Carter telling the nation to put on a sweater rather than turning up the thermostat, is practically gleeful describing Reagan having the solar panels removed from the White House that were installed under Carter, and worshipfully looking to Reagan as the true Christian president. Not because of his charity, but because he spoke of being special, of prosperity as an inevitable reward, for being born into a promise as Americans under God's singular gaze.

Make no mistake, Christianity among many isn't about service or following the example of their God having taken the form of a homeless teacher and healer. They are in it for the prosperity promised for being a believer. I'd say John 6 describes the vast majority, and Carter isn't one of those who is just following because he'd eaten the bread and fish, and expected more. So many claiming to be a follower of Christ do so expecting that they will get even more fish and bread while others starve like the pack of hungry dogs chasing the butcher's cart, and this seems to be the spiritual motivation of the majority of EVs when their beliefs are looked at through their behavior. Sure, they'll volunteer at a food bank or help out a neighbor, send a check to support someone down on their luck, or send thoughts and prayers. But behind it all is the idea one is practically blasphemous if one views the pursuit of wealth and the expectation of prosperity as anything other than evidence of God's favor. Many people don't like the idea that their good works might not result in earthly rewards, and turn to preachers promising more than pie in the sky by-and-by. Liberals are doing the devil's work, taking from the rich prospered by God - as evidenced by their being prosperous - and given those godly given rewards to the slothful and undeserving as a way of undoing God's blessing the faithful. It's these same forces keeping the lower and middle classes down, too, and resisting God's ability to prosper their hard work and justly earned wealth through taxes and regulations that further work against God's word forcing the US away from it's protected status as a promised land and shining light on a hill. Carter claimed to be a Christian, but he was doing the devil's work according to this view of how politics and religion overlap in the US.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:50 am 
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Honor, that’s well put. Unfortunately, though.


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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:58 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Compared to you-know-who.

thought you liked the Obamas...but yeah, they have always been self involved and opportunistic.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:14 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Compared to you-know-who.

,,,,,,,,


At least Ayn Rand was honest about her atheism and making self interest her primary value.


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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Gunnar wrote:
Yes. I hope Carter will be remembered in history more for his goodness and compassion than for what his opponents have unfairly said about him. And his work for Habitat for Humanity is far from the only positive thing that can be said about him. Check this out for starters: 10 Major Accomplishments of Jimmy Carter.

I have little doubt that Carter could have made much more of a positive difference had he been reelected for a second term with a more supportive congress. We might even have been well on the way to solving the problem of mitigating the worst affects of climate change by now! And I can't imagine that Carter would have handled the Mideast situation anywhere near as badly as the Republican administrations we have had since his Presidency did! I even think it may be likely that the 9/11 attack would never had occurred had the differences that Carter could have made in world diplomacy during a second term had been realized.


Gunnar, thanks for stating this. I certainly agree.


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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:29 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Compared to you-know-who.

thought you liked the Obamas...but yeah, they have always been self involved and opportunistic.

Not to mention having a reputation for stiffing everyone who has ever extended even the smallest amount of trust their way. I mean, every contractor they ever hired learned the hard way that the Obamas weren't going to pay. Remember that time the Obamas told American farmers that they were negotiating in their interests as they started a trade war with China that required giving them money as their markets shrank and their buyers have been establishing new seller relationships that will irreparably change the markets? Or promised the middle class tax cuts while signing into law a tax cut that benefits the wealthiest while expiring on everyone else? Or that time they promised to cut the debt because the US would be winning so hard the winning would shrink the debt but instead it ballooned up to unprecedented levels at a time the economy was doing well despite their party making the exploding debt from fighting off a recession a central focus of their opposition position to everything the previous president did, ever? Obama never met a person where he wasn't sizing up the best way to stab them in the back for his own gain and take everything from them he could, to be sure.

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Last edited by honorentheos on Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Some of these newer posts are killing me. Because they show how the overall face of Christianity and impressions of it have changed over the decades and it saddens me in a way that I can't fully describe. I am what you might call an old school Christian. I don't know what else to call it and hope that you somehow know what I mean. I am well familiar with the philosophies and processes that you describe below and so has honor described them.

MeDotOrg wrote:
It is significant to me that the most Christian President is not held in high esteem by evangelicals in this country. Jimmy Carter's life has been in service to his fellow man, and yet people like Franklin Graham reserved their adoration for Donald Trump.


Franklin Graham (I don't know his heart) is more polished and will always be associated with his father and so perhaps on account of it, he enjoys a more international platform and is held in higher esteem than Carter. I don't know if that's true or not.

What I do know is that Carter via his life, demonstrates the humility, perseverance, and compassion in Christianity that is familiar to me. I tend to think that Graham does as well on account of the ministries he delivers.

Carter seems off the radar in these days, where Graham often holds the spotlight and a rigorous schedule where Carter does not but he certainly does hold a rigorous schedule for a man aged 95.

I don't even know what point I might be wanting to make here. I'm just thinking it out on the screen.

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If you ask me, one of the most important ways the Jesus deepened the religious experience was teaching that external actions should come from the heart. "Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Pious posturing is not enough, you have to walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.


You are describing what we call the "heart change" in Christianity. Faith without works is a dead faith. Not that we should be trying to increase our standing with God through works, upping our position on an eternal score card. It's just that when faith takes hold, we develop a desire be of service to others in some way. You can contrast that with what we see in Trump and again, I don't know his heart. I don't know if he even has a heart in the way that we think of it because his personality was skewed early in life and we live with the adult result of that.

It's not his fault that he's damaged. He didn't do it to himself. I believe that God will use him somehow. We'll see him as providing contrast (dark/light as I mentioned prior), we could see him experience a positive transformation before our eyes, or we'll see our country descend along with him.

I can't think of a fourth option. I feel sick writing this.

Quote:
And yet that simple principle seems to be ignored by many in the Christian right when they choose Donald Trump as their champion. In many ways Donald Trump's self-aggrandizement is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus. "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal."


It's definitely the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus the Christ. It's the polar opposite of what he taught during his earthly ministry and Christians should be paying careful attention. What Trump does (his rallies, tweets, etc.) is show us the lesser parts of human nature according to Christianity, that is. It's easy, I think, for Christians to tap into that because we are supposed to be cognizant of our sin nature. It's easy to be drawn by it and stray. It's like a drug. We should strive to be aware of it's pull.

I'm making myself sick here. My mind hurtles off in multiple directions at once and I can't contain it enough to write a coherent post because I am missing so many pieces I can't grab and properly work into my writing. I can't do justice to all I'm seeing in my mind. And that is either the magic or insanity that is me. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Some brief remarks. I could probably write a book but I don't really want to spend time doing it.

honorentheos wrote:
Call it good fortune or ill, I have associated with someone daily through work for over 10 years who is a stereotypical rightwing conservative evangelical anti-liberal, was in college in the era of Jimmy Carter and entered the work force in the Reagan era.

What I have gathered in conversations with him over the years is that Carter's failing was his inability to inspire people to chase prosperity. This associate talks derisively of Carter telling the nation to put on a sweater rather than turning up the thermostat, is practically gleeful describing Reagan having the solar panels removed from the White House that were installed under Carter, and worshipfully looking to Reagan as the true Christian president. Not because of his charity, but because he spoke of being special, of prosperity as an inevitable reward, for being born into a promise as Americans under God's singular gaze.


We did what our President told us to do, lowered the heat (68 degrees was the recommendation) and put on extra clothing. To this day, we still keep our heat low in the house even in winter. When 55mph became the national speed limit, we drove it.

I never once felt angry at Carter for those things. I felt like we were all in this together and that's what American's did--they pulled together.

Quote:
Make no mistake, Christianity among many isn't about service or following the example of their God having taken the form of a homeless teacher and healer. They are in it for the prosperity promised for being a believer. I'd say John 6 describes the vast majority, and Carter isn't one of those who is just following because he'd eaten the bread and fish, and expected more. So many claiming to be a follower of Christ do so expecting that they will get even more fish and bread while others starve like the pack of hungry dogs chasing the butcher's cart, and this seems to be the spiritual motivation of the majority of EVs when their beliefs are looked at through their behavior. Sure, they'll volunteer at a food bank or help out a neighbor, send a check to support someone down on their luck, or send thoughts and prayers. But behind it all is the idea one is practically blasphemous if one views the pursuit of wealth and the expectation of prosperity as anything other than evidence of God's favor. Many people don't like the idea that their good works might not result in earthly rewards, and turn to preachers promising more than pie in the sky by-and-by. Liberals are doing the devil's work, taking from the rich prospered by God - as evidenced by their being prosperous - and given those godly given rewards to the slothful and undeserving as a way of undoing God's blessing the faithful. It's these same forces keeping the lower and middle classes down, too, and resisting God's ability to prosper their hard work and justly earned wealth through taxes and regulations that further work against God's word forcing the US away from it's protected status as a promised land and shining light on a hill. Carter claimed to be a Christian, but he was doing the devil's work according to this view of how politics and religion overlap in the US.


There's no doubt that Christian's can lean towards the material. We're human like everyone else is. I wasn't raised that way. I don't live that way. My idea is that whatever I have was supplied to me by God and whatever I have I should be content with it and take care of it. Be a good steward of whatever money we have as well. Whether I lived in a broken down home (and I have) or a fairly nice home (and I do) I would still take care of it. I did, I still do, and I would no matter where I lived or what possessions I owned because I see the material things and even my children as on loan to me from God, and it's my job to take care of my things and my people--and also the natural world that I inhabit.

So far as I am concerned, the so-called Prosperity Gospel movement (I know that's not what you're referring to but it's emergence comes from at least part of what you referred to) is an aberration of scripture. It's foretold in scripture and Christian's would do well to pay attention to the heads up.

Carter is a self professed Christian. He lives it out in front of us. And when I hear people talk about the prosperity of Christians I think it has nothing to do with money or materialism. Not even close.

In my eyes I see that Jimmy Carter is a prosperous Christian. Prosperity in Christianity is about building up the body of Christ. I am certain that he's done that by his example and his teaching. And that's what Christlike really means.

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