The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

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_subgenius
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:...(snip)... I suspect that these particular episodes of gut feeling are allowed a bit more leeway in refusing a sale than when they concern the sale of baked goods.

But "gut feeilngs" about a protected class is not given leeway....can you imagine if Dick's said they had a gut feeling about Blacks buying guns?
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_canpakes
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:...(snip)... I suspect that these particular episodes of gut feeling are allowed a bit more leeway in refusing a sale than when they concern the sale of baked goods.

But "gut feeilngs" about a protected class is not given leeway....can you imagine if Dick's said they had a gut feeling about Blacks buying guns?

Agreed. But age of the buyer works across all races, so your comparison isn't completely equal (no irony intended). At some point a rationale for setting an age limit on things like voting and firearms purchase was debated, accepted and codified. I am curious to see if that can be converted into a legal argument in Dick's favor, with eventual ramifications such as a change to the state law. Legal cases can certainly take some strange turns.
_subgenius
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:Agreed. But age of the buyer works across all races, so your comparison isn't completely equal (no irony intended). At some point a rationale for setting an age limit on things like voting and firearms purchase was debated, accepted and codified. I am curious to see if that can be converted into a legal argument in Dick's favor, with eventual ramifications such as a change to the state law. Legal cases can certainly take some strange turns.

Yes, and 18 years is the codified law...much like how "all colors" are codified with being able to drink from the same water fountain....Dick's doesn't get to change their water fountain policy with regards to protected classes. Similarly a bar can't refuse drinks to all 21 year olds, just because they are 21 years old.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_canpakes
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:Yes, and 18 years is the codified law...much like how "all colors" are codified with being able to drink from the same water fountain....Dick's doesn't get to change their water fountain policy with regards to protected classes. Similarly a bar can't refuse drinks to all 21 year olds, just because they are 21 years old.

We agree on how the law reads now. What I'm curious to see is how this will impact any future changes in the law.
_Paracelsus
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _Paracelsus »

Paracelsus wrote:Does count if legal age to own/buy a gun is 18, 21 or 25?

Toddlers shot their siblings and neighbours with the mother's gun.
Do a search...

Don't do... Reading the daily news is good enough.

(https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/18/us/ap-us-sibling-shooting-video-game.html)
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESSMARCH 19, 2018, 6:45 A.M. E.D.T.
A Mississippi girl has died after her brother allegedly shot her in the head because she wouldn't hand over the controller of a video game.

WCBI-TV reported Sunday that Monroe County Sheriff Cecil Cantrell says the girl is dead.

Cantrell told local news outlets that the 9-year-old boy shot his 13-year-old sister in the back of the head. She was rushed to Le Bonheur's Children's Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, but didn't survive.


Something nothing to do with the case above:
“During today’s meeting, the group spoke with the President about the effect that violent video games have on our youth, especially young males,” the White House said in a statement. “The President acknowledged some studies have indicated there is a correlation between video game violence and real violence. The conversation centered on whether violent video games, including games that graphically simulate killing, desensitize our community to violence.”

Despite the White House’s statement, there have actually been no studies indicating a correlation between video game violence and real violence (my highlight).
(https://kotaku.com/trump-meets-with-game-executives-watches-clips-of-viol-1823628952, 3/08/18 6:25pm)
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_subgenius
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:Yes, and 18 years is the codified law...much like how "all colors" are codified with being able to drink from the same water fountain....Dick's doesn't get to change their water fountain policy with regards to protected classes. Similarly a bar can't refuse drinks to all 21 year olds, just because they are 21 years old.

We agree on how the law reads now. What I'm curious to see is how this will impact any future changes in the law.

I would be surprised if such blatant publicity/marketing stunts had any impact on gun laws.

(is this an issue where one can conveniently dismiss the whole "evil big business" mantra? I am unclear on when to apply that hair fire).
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Doctor Steuss
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this sort of thing, so I hope a few questions will be indulged.

While most car rental joints now allow people under 25 to rent cars (at least I think so?), could this same act conceivably have been (or currently be) used as a defense for someone under that age?

Also, I think the places that do allow under-25 renters charge additional fees. If this suit is successful, would Dick’s be able to utilize the car renter template, and charge additional (and perhaps, prohibitively expensive) fees for individuals under a certain age?
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_DoubtingThomas
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

subgenius wrote:Yes, and 18 years is the codified law...much like how "all colors" are codified with being able to drink from the same water fountain....Dick's doesn't get to change their water fountain policy with regards to protected classes. Similarly a bar can't refuse drinks to all 21 year olds, just because they are 21 years old.


It's called neurology! According to Rochester's Health Encyclopedia "The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part."

It is not wise to let 18 year olds buy guns
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Doctor Steuss wrote:I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this sort of thing, so I hope a few questions will be indulged.

While most car rental joints now allow people under 25 to rent cars (at least I think so?), could this same act conceivably have been (or currently be) used as a defense for someone under that age?

Also, I think the places that do allow under-25 renters charge additional fees. If this suit is successful, would Dick’s be able to utilize the car renter template, and charge additional (and perhaps, prohibitively expensive) fees for individuals under a certain age?


Michigan appears to have a statute that requires rental companies to rent to folks 18 years and older, and permits companies to charge an additional young driver surcharge on the rental. In Michigan, when a law says you can discriminate, following the law does not violate the civil rights act. Without that statute, I think refusing to rent to licensed drivers under a certain age would violate the Civil Rights law.

New York also requires rentals to those 18 and older. The other states leave it up to the rental companies.
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