Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races...

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_subgenius
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:Oh, I'm sorry for not concentrating on the majority of illegals - you know, the hordes working as doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals. Right?

No need to apologize, after all you deliberately mentioned them on every item in your list of questions...are you now wanting to move the goalpost away from them as we move forward with this discussion?
Since the other option on your list of questions was the "work-permitted", can you provide any statistics for how many doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals are "work permitted"? While I am aware that the US H-1B visa allows for immigrants to join residency/fellowship programs, I am unaware of a work-permit being allowable for State Licensure among many professions. This visa applies to several professions under very limiting qualifications, thus making doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals working under a "work-permit" a statistically negligent minority in the context of your questions. But, perhaps you could clarify what claim you are insinuating on this regard? (because it still seems to be an argument for the exception and not the rule)

canpakes wrote:Anyhow, if you are going to talk about 401k participation ... less than half of all Americans participate in one, and of those, less than a third save enough to meet recommended retirement standards. So, you'd better widen your net of disdain outside of just poor illegals - who aren't exactly making a boatload to invest in the first place - if 401k participation is your beef.

401k was an example not a new topic - i'll leave the goal post moving to you, you seem to have the back strength for such an endeavor. But you make a good point, unfortunately its a point for your opponent. American participation in the "capital" measurement for economic nationalism is relevant, but if an American that wants to invest but cannot because wages are being kept too low by unfair and unaccounted for labor competition; well then.

canpakes wrote:If you're going to bitch about remittances, then you've lost that argument before you even get your first sentence out:

The economics of remittances surprise a lot people, even those who aren't sympathetic to Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric. People intuitively assume keeping that money in the United States is a good thing for the American economy, but many macroeconomists disagree.

Apart from the obvious counter-point of "many macroeconomists also agree" - it still does not contradict the answer given to your direct question - narrow to the topic of economic nationalism. Leave the goalpost where you first planted it, please.

canpakes wrote:Why?

Oh do tell...but make sure its heavy with speculation

canpakes wrote:One reason is that remittances mean cheaper stuff for Americans. The millions of Mexican immigrants working in the United States provide goods and services for American consumers, and in exchange they earn dollars. About 11.7 million Mexican immigrants live in the United States, and last year Mexico received about $24 billion back in remittances. When immigrants send their earnings overseas, America loses dollars, but no actual goods or services. Figuratively, we trade pieces of paper with green ink for real stuff. If families in Mexico use those dollars to buy things made in Mexico or elsewhere, then America has essentially gotten immigrants' services without paying anything tangible in return. If, on the other hand, families in Mexico use their remittances to buy things made in the United States, then American exports increase. Either way, the American economy wins.

Aside from the obvious CFR for just about every speculation you have provided here....you should note that you are, in fact, proving how it hurts economic nationalism...you are describing a scenario that expressly has "control" residing with a foreign body....the choice for spending and investing rests with the Mexican Citizen...ergo, thank you for the affirmation on how your examples hurt economic nationalism. Perhaps you should find yourself a definition of economic nationalism that you can understand before you attempt to argue against it?

Your position reminds me of an old art school saying - "I am not a professional art critic, but I know what I hate when I see it".


canpakes wrote:Nice of you to jump in and waffle on without saying anything much, though. It proves the point I'm making just that much more.


Point? You have yet to really make an actual point, what you have done is toss around a few narrow opinions that are tantamount to "no, its not - because i say so". You asked questions and were answered quite effectively. Insinuations and armchair suppositions are not actually rebuttals or refutations of those answers. But perhaps I am falling prey to the "jumping to conclusions" predator that seemingly has you clenched firmly in it teeth.....exactly what was your point about economic nationalism?
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_EAllusion
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _EAllusion »

Maxine Waters wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Majax,

Give us a snapshot of your economic policies you'd like to see enacted that would reduce our national debt, increase wages without increasing real costs, and increase American internal production to reduce imports.

- Doc


Bannon has already done this. I'm not saying it solves every world problem. I'm saying it's in the best interest of the most American citizens. I also think if Trump doubles down on economic nationalism, he will win again in 2020.


Trump has actively rejected Bannon's tax policy in an extreme way. Bannon favors large tax increases on the wealthy. Trump favors large tax cuts on the wealthy. Trump is also diametrically opposed to Bannon's positions on regulatory matters. He tried to cut Medicaid, which is the opposite of Bannon's "workers party" rhetoric. Trump functions like a parody of a corrupt plutocrat on economic policy so far. Bannon, when he's not contradicting himself, is like a cross between 1930's Germany and New Deal liberalism.

You're basically saying that Trump won't win again in 2020.
_Xenophon
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _Xenophon »

EAllusioin wrote:Trump favors large tax cuts on the wealthy. Trump is also diametrically opposed to Bannon's positions on regulatory matters. He tried to cut Medicaid, which is the opposite of Bannon's "workers party" rhetoric. Trump functions like a parody of a corrupt plutocrat on economic policy so far.


That right there is why designating Trump as populist has always been off. Sure some of his rhetoric has some populist elements to it(I think MAGA comes across as populist to his followers) but when the rubber meets the road, almost everything he does in terms of policy is counter to anything we would normally consider populism. It feels like when we say Trump is taping into populism, what we actually mean is "he is lying to his audience about what he intends to do".
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_canpakes
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Oh, I'm sorry for not concentrating on the majority of illegals - you know, the hordes working as doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals. Right?

No need to apologize, after all you deliberately mentioned them on every item in your list of questions...are you now wanting to move the goalpost away from them as we move forward with this discussion?

You should strive to be more observant... as an architect, epsecially. Please find mention of doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals in my original post. And let me know whatever goal posts you are imagining, along with that.


subgenius wrote:Since the other option on your list of questions was the "work-permitted", can you provide any statistics for how many doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals are "work permitted"? While I am aware that the US H-1B visa allows for immigrants to join residency/fellowship programs, I am unaware of a work-permit being allowable for State Licensure among many professions. This visa applies to several professions under very limiting qualifications, thus making doctors, lawyers, architects and other professionals working under a "work-permit" a statistically negligent minority in the context of your questions. But, perhaps you could clarify what claim you are insinuating on this regard? (because it still seems to be an argument for the exception and not the rule)

Image


subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Anyhow, if you are going to talk about 401k participation ... less than half of all Americans participate in one, and of those, less than a third save enough to meet recommended retirement standards. So, you'd better widen your net of disdain outside of just poor illegals - who aren't exactly making a boatload to invest in the first place - if 401k participation is your beef.

401k was an example not a new topic - i'll leave the goal post moving to you, you seem to have the back strength for such an endeavor.

Oops, my bad. I didn't realize that I was 'moving the goalposts' by actually engaging your 'example'.


subgenius wrote:But you make a good point, unfortunately its a point for your opponent. American participation in the "capital" measurement for economic nationalism is relevant, but if an American that wants to invest but cannot because wages are being kept too low by unfair and unaccounted for labor competition; well then.

I see. You believe that there's a cohort of the population that intentionally negotiates for lower wages. Much like ajax believes.

I feel so sorry for those poor, defenseless job creators out there that are being forced to pay their employees these low wages, against their moral sensibilities.

What can we do about this?


subgenius wrote:Aside from the obvious CFR ...

Here you go: http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/opinions/ ... index.html

I'm sure that you know how to use The Googles, so you'll be able to find other data on this.


subgenius wrote:... for just about every speculation you have provided here....you should note that you are, in fact, proving how it hurts economic nationalism...you are describing a scenario that expressly has "control" residing with a foreign body....the choice for spending and investing rests with the Mexican Citizen...ergo, thank you for the affirmation on how your examples hurt economic nationalism.

You didn't read the article, did you? ; )


subgenius wrote:Perhaps you should find yourself a definition of economic nationalism that you can understand before you attempt to argue against it?

Hey, I asked ajax, but he decided not to offer one. Otherwise, we have some offered up already by other sources.

Do you want to step in and craft one yourself?


subgenius wrote:Your position reminds me of an old art school saying - "I am not a professional art critic, but I know what I hate when I see it".

Your position reminds me of someone who got caught lazily pissing in the bushes, then loudly complains that he wasn't able to walk the extra 10 yards to the restroom.


subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Nice of you to jump in and waffle on without saying anything much, though. It proves the point I'm making just that much more.

Point? You have yet to really make an actual point, what you have done is toss around a few narrow opinions that are tantamount to "no, its not - because i say so". You asked questions and were answered quite effectively. Insinuations and armchair suppositions are not actually rebuttals or refutations of those answers. But perhaps I am falling prey to the "jumping to conclusions" predator that seemingly has you clenched firmly in it teeth.....exactly what was your point about economic nationalism?

Image
_Gunnar
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _Gunnar »

I think that one of the most short-sighted and foolish things about conservative "white nationalism" or "economic nationalism" (whatever one chooses to call it) is the claim (or, at least, the implication) that the economic interests and well-being of Americans can't be enhanced or assured without somehow also disadvantaging and marginalizing those of all other nationalities. This is not only untrue, it is inherently uncompassionate and even immoral. There is nothing so special about us Americans that we inherently deserve to be better off and wealthier than all other nationalities at their expense. What has made our country great is not so much what we have done to selfishly enhance our own wealth and power, but what we have contributed to the benefit of the rest of mankind in general.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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_moksha
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Re: Economic Nationalism will unite Americans of all races..

Post by _moksha »

Majax, what about a policy demanding that the poor be sent back to Europe, Africa, Asia, Antarctica, or wherever they are coming from?
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