It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:56 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:00 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
This in not a thread about carbon emissions. This is not a thread to debate the causes of global warming.

Regardless of what you feel is the cause of global warming, it is hard to deny that it is happening.

Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air. As the earth gets warmer hurricanes hold more and more moisture. The hurricane that precipitated the building of the flood reservoirs west of the Houston? That dumped sixteen inches of rain. Harvey dumped 52 inches. It's the wettest storm in the history of the United States.

'500 year' storms are now happening every few years. Harvey was a 'thousand year storm'. I bet we'll have a couple of more Harveys in my lifetime.

Whether or not you believe global warming is caused by man, it makes no difference. The world is getting warmer, and that is creating huge consequences for mankind. These types of events are going to become more common. Coastal cities, and areas that are prone to violent weather (tornado alleys), it's all going to get a lot worse in our lifetimes. Even if we disagree on the cause, you still have to admit it's happening. Are we going to continue to put massive petrochemical facilities in the path of these storms? Do we expect people to live in areas that are expected to be underwater several times in their lifetimes? These are just some of the questions we need to begin asking ourselves.

So to all MormonDiscussions.com'ers: Whatever you believe the causes of global warming, it certainly appears to be happening. I am not talking about the solution, because that becomes a thread that necessitates a discussion of the causes. So no matter what you feel is the cause, there are consequences that effect all of us, whether or not global warming is man-made. Independent of carbon emission standards, how should we plan for and prepare for what appears to be a much warmer future?

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:43 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 am
Posts: 11914
MeDotOrg wrote:
Independent of carbon emission standards, how should we plan for and prepare for what appears to be a much warmer future?

Migrate to higher ground now and beat the rush.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:06 pm 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 920
Location: California
In my view the government response to Katrina set a bad precedent. Is flood insurance outrageously expensive in New Orleans? Should the government really be paying off mortgages for homeowners who neglected to purchase flood insurance?

So yes, people need to move to higher ground or pay the cost of living by the water where many of us prefer.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Quote:
So yes, people need to move to higher ground or pay the cost of living by the water where many of us prefer.


Not a lot of surfers in the 9th Ward. Higher ground in New Orleans means the cost you pay' makes home ownership out of reach. Houston and New Orleans are big port cities. Have you ever been to Houston? The air feel like geese farts on a muggy day, tinged with a certain je ne sais quoi of whatever chemicals are being emitted. Houston's siren call is not the Gulf. It's jobs. It's a big, sprawling, hot, muggy, unregulated urban/suburban mess.

I've heard as many as 80% of some affected neighborhoods have no flood insurance. So all of those people move to higher ground? Supply and demand kicks in. Houses on higher ground become even more expensive. How do they afford it? How do you provide housing for the electricians, sheet rockers, house framers, electricians and plumbers that will be necessary to help Houston rebuild?

If everyone does as you say, Houston and New Orleans as port cities would be greatly diminished. Believe it or not, I agree with some of what you say, but not all. On the one hand, people shouldn't live without flood insurance where there is flooding. On the other hand, people live in the 9th Ward because they are poor and cannot afford insurance. But if they move to higher ground, the will need to have housing subsidies.

I think something like this has to happen in coastal city planning: We have to give back some coastal areas to act storm surge protection. It is possible that some land will have to be rezoned as flood basins that are inappropriate for development. One of the problems is that Texas has incredibly lax zoning . The West, Texas fertilizer plant explosion took out several schools. No zoning.

What happens in a lais·sez-faire government? How do the present economic realities for poor people who need to live reasonably near where they work lend itself to a solution?

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:21 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
Poor people are always affected more in natural disasters than rich people. Holland seems to have some pretty good idea's as to keeping back the ocean(Wind powered pumps) Not sure if the US wants to spend that level of money, and Drumpf doesn't like them spoiling his view.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:45 am 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:50 pm
Posts: 871
MeDotOrg wrote:
The air feel like geese farts on a muggy day, tinged with a certain je ne sais quoi of whatever chemicals are being emitted. Houston's siren call is not the Gulf. It's jobs. It's a big, sprawling, hot, muggy, unregulated urban/suburban mess.

>Implying it isn't always a muggy day in Houston

On a more serious note, I think a large part of any future solution comes in our voting patterns. Currently we grade politicians on how they handled a disaster mainly on the optics of recovery and securing funds to rebuild. If we are ever going to better prepare and make real strides we are going to have to shift our focus to demanding preventative/preparedness efforts that includes funding for disaster prevention. It is estimated that for every dollar spent on preparation it is worth $15 in relief monies. That is a staggering cost efficiency that we don't typically even talk about and disaster preparedness spending is not getting better:

Image

You are correct that Texas presents a whole slew of problems connected primarily with our hands-off approach to regulation but we aren't in this boat alone. Moving isn't the only solution (or even that good of one); wildfires, tornadoes, droughts, winter super storms and myriad of other disasters threaten every corner of this globe and they are getting worse and more frequent. Until we as a people decide that spending on preventative measures is an important metric, I think we can expect more of the same.

A timely article from 538 that echos many of my feelings.

The study where I got a fair bit of information including that sweet, sweet graphic (PDF Warning).

_________________
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:42 pm 
Savior (mortal ministry)
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 920
Location: California
Mississippi did a much better job building levees and dams with relief money than Louisiana.

If you can't afford flood insurance, maybe you should be renting. You have enough to pay PMI. It's about priorities. I had a patient lose a $250k house last year to flood. Flood insurance would have cost him $400 that year.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:21 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
Even renters are hit by floods.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:17 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Just a little side note: I live in San Francisco, where the average temperature on September 1st is around 70°. Yesterday it was 106°, breaking the old record by 3 degrees.

Image

A single anecdotal temperature anomaly can be just that: an anomaly. But enough anomalies begin to form a pattern. By the way, it's supposed to hotter today.

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:16 pm
Posts: 26356
Location: Off the Deep End
Maxine Waters wrote:
So yes, people need to move to higher ground or pay the cost of living by the water where many of us prefer.


So no one here has lived in a flood zone? They don't all need to move to higher ground. They can raise their houses. And yes, get flood insurance.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:52 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
The lowest places in elevation I lived were Biloxi Miss followed by the city of Rancho Cordova just outside of Sacramento Calif.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:53 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 13431
MeDotOrg wrote:
Just a little side note: I live in San Francisco, where the average temperature on September 1st is around 70°. Yesterday it was 106°, breaking the old record by 3 degrees.

Image

A single anecdotal temperature anomaly can be just that: an anomaly. But enough anomalies begin to form a pattern. By the way, it's supposed to hotter today.


MeDotOrg,

Did you save that image from the Washington Post?

- Doc

_________________
I have Mental Gymnast on ignore until he makes amends with Grindael, and both Grindael and IHAQ start posting again. I will not allow a troll to drive off two great board members without taking a stand.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:23 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
MeDotOrg,

Did you save that image from the Washington Post?

- Doc


Yes.

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:35 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 13431
MeDotOrg wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
MeDotOrg,

Did you save that image from the Washington Post?

- Doc


Yes.


Be advised you are now guilty of linking to a fascist/sexist/alt-right rag even though its bias rating leans Left. I hope you didn't avoid linking to the image directly in order to skirt the issue with the alt-Left on this board. That would be disappointing.

- Doc

_________________
I have Mental Gymnast on ignore until he makes amends with Grindael, and both Grindael and IHAQ start posting again. I will not allow a troll to drive off two great board members without taking a stand.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:37 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
MeDotOrg,

Did you save that image from the Washington Post?

- Doc


MeDotOrg wrote:
Yes.


Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Be advised you are now guilty of linking to a fascist/sexist/alt-right rag even though its bias rating leans Left. I hope you didn't avoid linking to the image directly in order to skirt the issue with the alt-Left on this board. That would be disappointing.

- Doc


Well you got me, Doc. I didn't link directly to the article because I knew that if everyone knew the numbers came from the Washington Post, no one would believe the numbers. (With the possible exception of San Franciscans who experienced the empirical evidence.)

That and you can't link directly to that image.

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:11 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 13431
Hey, man. You do you. Just be ready for an angry white supremacist who lives in Georgia to accuse you of something-something Washington Post.

Image

- Doc

_________________
I have Mental Gymnast on ignore until he makes amends with Grindael, and both Grindael and IHAQ start posting again. I will not allow a troll to drive off two great board members without taking a stand.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:51 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 8970
Location: Your mother's purse
MeDotOrg wrote:
Just a little side note: I live in San Francisco, where the average temperature on September 1st is around 70°. Yesterday it was 106°, breaking the old record by 3 degrees.

Image

A single anecdotal temperature anomaly can be just that: an anomaly. But enough anomalies begin to form a pattern. By the way, it's supposed to hotter today.

Could have reached 104 in 1632, but meh.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:31 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
What are you talking about?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:28 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
Here is what I mean by reasonable.
SEE http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/what- ... about-risk

I of course can't build levies, dams, catch basins, and the like. But I can reduce my personal carbon footprint.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:09 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:23 am
Posts: 11982
Location: On the imaginary axis
The CCC wrote:
Here is what I mean by reasonable.
SEE http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/what- ... about-risk

I of course can't build levies, dams, catch basins, and the like. But I can reduce my personal carbon footprint.


Nice article:

Quote:
What sensible, pragmatic, bipartisan steps can we take to increase our resilience to risks that a disaster like Hurricane Harvey represents? This question must be asked, because the current administration has proposed cutting the budget of the National Weather Service and other agencies that study and forecast weather and climate disasters and has rescinded regulations designed to address rising sea levels when constructing infrastructure.

First and foremost, we should reduce our exposure and build resilience to the hazards we already face today. We can’t continue building in places that we know will flood. We need to build and modernize infrastructure to make our water management systems more resilient to both floods and droughts. We must continue to invest in the weather forecasting systems that provided advance warning and in the public services that build community resilience and provide disaster response.

Ultimately, though, even these practical steps may not be enough. In a changing climate, building capacity and resilience to cope with today’s risks leave us unprepared for future extremes. That’s why, in order to reduce the risk of disasters both here and abroad, we need to minimize the climate change that is turbocharging these events. And that means reducing our emissions of the heat-trapping greenhouse gases.

Changing the risk equation

Here again Texas can lead the way. We’re already number one in wind power production by state, thanks to targeted investments that boosted the power grid connecting cities with windy regions. And we’ve only begun to tap our abundant solar resources.

The innovations that energy companies have pioneered to build offshore oil platforms can inform the development of, and investment in, offshore wind turbines and their knowledge of producing petrochemicals could be applied to more sustainably produced biofuels.

There will always be those who claim that the costs of moving to cleaner energy sources and reducing carbon emissions are too high. But the U.S. has improved air quality in ways in which the benefits greatly exceed the costs and replaced ozone-depleting chemicals, all while the economy has grown.

Today, wind and solar power prices are now competitive with fossil fuels across Texas. Across the country, these industries already employ far more people than coal mining. Electric cars may soon be as affordable as gasoline ones and be charged in ways that help balance the fluctuations in wind and solar power. Only someone profoundly pessimistic would bet against the ability of American ingenuity to repower our economy.

Hurricane Harvey exemplifies the risks we all face – and a more dangerous future if we don’t take actions now. More people and vulnerable infrastructure exposed to more frequent and intense hazards equals even greater risk for us in the future. The time to rethink the equation is now.



But - why doesn't she mention a National Day of Prayer???

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Living with the consequences of global warming
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:24 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:51 pm
Posts: 6632
Dr. Keyhoe is a Evangelical Christian. She talks to church groups about global warming. I'm pretty sure she prays about it too.

Thought you might like this.
SEE https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017455309


Last edited by The CCC on Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group