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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:03 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Yes. The list of strong items that could be put in an articles of impeachment against Trump is impressively long.

But there is no such list, unless you mean a "wish" list.

To date there is not 1 single item you could put in an articles if imoeachment...you have a bit of stretch to even get censure.

But please, feel free to litter your response with a list of political accusations in lieu of actual proven facts/evidence.See you can't impeach a President based on whatever a hysterical lost-the-election mob chants and writes on poster boards.

The irony of how you guys sound like a "birther" is frigging overflowing....and your post barrage of "hopefulness" is moving from comical to tragic

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Stupid Troll right now they are being investigated. Robert Muellar has issued subpoena's to testify before a Grand Jury. Plus Congress has at least three on going investigations.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Ex-Bush ethics lawyer: Trump calling for Clinton to be prosecuted is an ‘impeachable offense’

Firing FBI Director during investigation is an impeachable offense

Trump's Political Incompetence is an impeachable offense

Conspiring with Attorney General to obstruct Justice is an impeachable offense

In Comey Testimony, Legal Experts See Evidence Trump Committed Impeachable Offense

Bombing Syria, a Country that hasn't attacked us, is an Impeachable offense

Trump’s Pardon of Joe Arpaio Is an Impeachable Offense

16 Little-Known, Impeachable Offenses Already Committed By President Trump

4 (And maybe 5) Grounds to Impeach Trump

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Cenk Uygur further underscores how Trump's pardoning Sheriff Arpaio is the most egregious violation of the rule of law imaginable. By this action he showed how he is willing to pardon his friends and supporters even for deliberate violation of the most basic and sacrosanct constitutionally guaranteed rights. No one should be more outraged by this than political conservatives. If he can be allowed to pardon anyone he wants, including people who are under investigation for colluding with him in any kind of crime or wrongdoing, that, in effect, gives Trump license to commit virtually any crime imaginable to benefit himself with complete impunity. It, in effect, makes him an absolute dictator or king, which is apparently what he is striving for. Any politician regardless of party who declines to support impeachment proceedings against this clown with all the impeachable offenses, especially this one, that he has committed deserves to be voted out of office at the earliest opportunity to do so!

No one can reasonably or honestly argue that Joe Arpaio did not violate the law by what he did. He should be in jail!

Trump obviously doesn't give a whit about what the constitution says if it restricts him from doing anything he wants to do to further aggrandize and enrich himself.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:26 pm 
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You can't plead the 5th if you take a pardon. Trump's pardon may be (or act as) a signal to his associates not to roll over because he'll pardon them if convicted, but it doesn't mean pardons are on their way in the near term.

If Trump starts pardoning his associates entangled in the Russian investigation, that's about as bright-line of a case for why the impeachment power exists as exists. If Congress does nothing even in the face of that level of illiberal abuse of authority, I'm not sure it makes sense to say with live in a liberal democracy anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:33 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
You can't plead the 5th if you take a pardon.


You Could Not Be More Wrong, - you can certainly plead the fifth if you took a pardon.
A President can only pardon a person for a federal crime and that same pardon does not exempt the person from being prosecuted at the State level...and for that, the same pardoned person is legally capable of pleading the fifth.
But it is way more advantageous to simply rely upon - "I do not recall".

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:44 am 
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subgenius wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
You can't plead the 5th if you take a pardon.


You Could Not Be More Wrong, - you can certainly plead the fifth if you took a pardon.
A President can only pardon a person for a federal crime and that same pardon does not exempt the person from being prosecuted at the State level...and for that, the same pardoned person is legally capable of pleading the fifth.
But it is way more advantageous to simply rely upon - "I do not recall".

With respect to things you are pardoned for, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:59 am 
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In accepting a Pardon you are admitting guilt. You can't come back and claim 5th Amendment rights for something you've already admitted guilt to.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:07 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What about what Obama did this year?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html

Quote:
The voices Obama heeded instead were those of activists including celebrities such as Lin-Manuel Miranda and South Africa's Bishop Desmond Tutu, the latter of whom said that Lopez Rivera's only crime was "conspiring to free his people from the shackles of imperial injustice." Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., referred to Lopez Rivera, bizarrely, as "one of the longest-serving political prisoners in history — 34 years, longer than Nelson Mandela."


Weirdly Marxist comments by those two regarding the freed American terrorist Lopez Rivera.

The point of my posts, for those not following, is virtually every President has controversial, and in more than a few cases, filthy pardons on their hands.

And we basically forget about it within a week or so, it seems.

- Doc


Obama COMMUTED his sentence to time served(NO PARDON). In the Lopez Rivera case it was after serving 35 years in prison.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:30 am 
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subgenius wrote:
You Could Not Be More Wrong, - you can certainly plead the fifth if you took a pardon.
A President can only pardon a person for a federal crime and that same pardon does not exempt the person from being prosecuted at the State level...and for that, the same pardoned person is legally capable of pleading the fifth.
But it is way more advantageous to simply rely upon - "I do not recall".

[MODERATOR NOTE: subgenius, to make your posts more readable, please don't hit the {Enter} key after each period. Please just hit the space bar twice instead.

If your intent is to make new paragraphs, please hit the {Enter} key twice, not once.

RULE OF THUMB: Here on MormonDiscussions.com, all users are absolutely prohibited from pressing the {Enter} key once. They may press it 0 times or 2 times, but never, EVER once (or three times, or four times, etc.)

Now go thou and sin no more.]

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:56 am 
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The CCC wrote:
Obama COMMUTED his sentence to time served(NO PARDON). In the Lopez Rivera case it was after serving 35 years in prison.


Oh. Ok. Cool. He commuted the sentence of a terrorist who killed Americans. But I guess that's ok since he's a Democrat. Had Bush or Trump done this for a Republican or a Conservative terrorists you radicals would be losing your collective minds.

eta: And let's not forget Ms. Manning. Literally divulged nationals secrets to everyone and their dogs in, I believe, the largest security breach in American history and y'all like, "Nah, man. It's cool. Transgender."

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Commutation of sentence is not an endorsement of the crime committed. Whether you, or I, like the punishment already administered, is irrelevant. Sheriff Joe never served even one day. Drumpf violated DOJ guidelines. Obama did not.

BTW The Democratic President Bill Clinton had American killer Timothy McVeigh executed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:36 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
In accepting a Pardon you are admitting guilt. You can't come back and claim 5th Amendment rights for something you've already admitted guilt to.

you moron, one certainly can as i provided with the facts above (contrast with the ramblings that you have posted).

President Trump can't pardon someone from State prosecution (only the Governor can do that)...and receiving a pardon does not mean you have admitted anything....and more so a pardon can actually expressly state a determination of innocence....and upon execution of a pardon you are actually considered legally innocent of whatever crime you admitted to or were convicted of.

Get back on the porch old man

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:59 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
BTW The Democratic President Bill Clinton had American killer Timothy McVeigh executed.


And that's relevant why? Why would you even bring that up? It makes zero sense.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Quote:
The point of my posts, for those not following, is virtually every President has controversial, and in more than a few cases, filthy pardons on their hands

I'm sure you're proud of yourself, thinking you've somehow engaged in nuanced thinking. But in reality all you're doing is engaging in the sophomoric false equivalencies that is such a favorite tactic by idiots and racists alike.

I swear. If Trump were to launch nukes, killing millions in North and South Korea, you'd probably start threads about Harry Truman, the Democrat Tyrant who dropped atom bombs on Japan. Amirite?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Quote:
The point of my posts, for those not following, is virtually every President has controversial, and in more than a few cases, filthy pardons on their hands


I'm sure you're proud of yourself, thinking you've somehow engaged in nuanced thinking. But in reality all you're doing is engaging in the sophomoric false equivalencies that is such a favorite tactic by idiots and racists alike.

I swear. If Trump were to launch nukes, killing millions in North and South Korea, you'd probably start threads about Harry Truman, the Democrat Tyrant who dropped atom bombs on Japan. Amirite?


I have nothing to say to someone stands on the downtrodden and oppressed while rejecting them and their "school systems", neighborhoods, and friendships.

You're a disgusting piece of Nazi filth.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I have nothing to say to someone stands on the downtrodden and oppressed while rejecting them and their "school systems", neighborhoods, and friendships.

Do you mean "stands for?"

Either way, what makes you think he's guilty of those things?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Either way, what makes you think he's guilty of those things?

He doesn't. Doc is just trolling now, which must be some rite of passage for newly minted Right Wing idiots who disseminate fake news from the propaganda mill. He doesn't know how to handle being busted for spreading debunked ____. But hey, he sure can google!

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
Either way, what makes you think he's guilty of those things?

He doesn't. Doc is just trolling now, which must be some rite of passage for newly minted Right Wing idiots who disseminate fake news from the propaganda mill. He doesn't know how to handle being busted for spreading debunked ____. But hey, he sure can google!

Kevin Graham googles, too. Don't let anyone fool you. He's just a dick ass racist piece of White Flight filth. He got as far away from Black people he could and moved right into the heart of Republicanland.

What a hypocrite.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:43 pm 
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I google responsibly. You google just enough to be dangerous.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:51 pm 
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You google like some dried out dick ass crackhead scouring craigslist's M4M for quick work. Everything you are, everything you do, everything you post on this forum is just you. Stare hard at the looking glass when you're ranting and raving about privilege, racists, and pushing everyone else into neat little categories because it's plain as day that it's your demons you're wrestling with.

All I know is you're about as accurate as Geraldo Rivera looking for some loot on live tv.

- Doc

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