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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:52 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
I explained the context. If you can't read it for what it is, there's not much that can be done. If something as blatant as that doesn't seem racist to you, then basically nothing will and there's no point pursuing further.


There's your "out".

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You obviously aren't supposed to be reading the mod forum, though it isn't at all surprising that you were brought in. There wasn't anything wrong with what I said. I know that issue vindicates me well and I'm not a fan of innuendo that implies I said something untoward.

Do you deny that you have ever written a post with a problem? If not, then per Jersey Girl reading my comment here wasn't an insult at all.


I wasn't "reading the mod forum" nor was I "brought in" to the mod forum. I'm simply saying that your analogy is amusing in light of your comparable comments in the MF. It's water under the bridge so far as I am concerned. Were I so sensitive that I couldn't take it on the chin and move on, I wouldn't be here typing out this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Y'all were claiming that the antifa and Leftists and socialist and communists had nothing to do with each other.


Feel free to offer a single quote saying anything like that. What I recall saying, which convienently only requires scrolling up a little, is that violent antifa aren't typical of leftists like you claim they are.

I also recall saying that you seem to conflate different leftwing groups to project the worst traits of some onto the whole. Your posts have all the nuance of describing Timothy McVeigh as behaving like a typical conservative.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:01 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I don't know EAllusion. One moment it's argumentum ad populum with you, next moment it's a token minority. One moment it's No True Scotsman, next moment you're pointing out Scotsmen. One thing I've learned from interacting with perhaps the most virulent racist on this board, you, is you're entrenched. You're a living example of someone whose ideology is layered in denial, dismissals, and accusations. Once you peel it all back it's clear as day you use minorities as a bludgeoning device in your class warfare. You're the one, as sick as it makes me to say this, but I think you only understand racist analogies, keeping them on the plantation. You're the cracker, cracking that whip, at the bidding of your ideological masters. 40 years of Democratic rule and you're still crackjng that whip, keeping them doped up on public assistance and promjses of more.

What has America gotten for it? More divisiveness and dependency than ever. And there you are, crackin' that whip. You don't give a ____ about them. They're just to be used and held up as an example of an oppressed minority that YOU and YOUR ILK has oppressed for 40 years now. They're killing each other in droves, and I've never seen you start a thread and express genujne concern for them. They're only props in your class struggle.

____ ing elitist White racist.

- Doc


Maybe I should PM this, but to others, is this guy for real? I can't tell if he's trolling or if he's just actually like this.

But if it helps, I have a Black, Latino, Japanese, and Jewish friend. Per your racist logic, this makes it impossible for me to be a racist. As we know, no one with racist opinions has ever been on friendly terms with a racial minority. I think it causes spontaneous combustion or something. QED.


I don't know. I can only guess that since I've rarely seen Cam take a position on this (I don't read everything here so who knows) that he's been observing and decided to come forward with a counter argument and is holding your feet to the fire, as well as Kevin Graham's feet.

The reason that I don't think he's trolling is because I don't really see him use any other "voice" but his own here, if that makes sense. For example, every once in a while I'll do a take off (parody, if you will) on someone and mirror their language or behaviors, but I think in context of the interaction it's clear that I'm doing it. I don't see Cam doing that on the board.

Don't really know.

Then again, I do tend to use two voices in my posts depending on the topic (one is just me talking, one is a bit more methodical, but that's not really the same) so...don't know. Maybe Cam does, too and I haven't noticed it.

Just go with what you see before you.

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
I explained the context. If you can't read it for what it is, there's not much that can be done. If something as blatant as that doesn't seem racist to you, then basically nothing will and there's no point pursuing further.


There's your "out".

Quote:
You obviously aren't supposed to be reading the mod forum, though it isn't at all surprising that you were brought in. There wasn't anything wrong with what I said. I know that issue vindicates me well and I'm not a fan of innuendo that implies I said something untoward.

Do you deny that you have ever written a post with a problem? If not, then per Jersey Girl reading my comment here wasn't an insult at all.


I wasn't "reading the mod forum" nor was I "brought in" to the mod forum. I'm simply saying that your analogy is amusing in light of your comparable comments in the MF. It's water under the bridge so far as I am concerned. Were I so sensitive that I couldn't take it on the chin and move on, I wouldn't be here typing out this post.

You said you read the mod comments in the mod forum. That means you were brought into that private conversation. I assume that most likely means Liz shared the contents with you. I don't think it has to mean that you were given admin access to the forum. Words, man.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:03 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Y'all were claiming that the antifa and Leftists and socialist and communists had nothing to do with each other.


Feel free to offer a single quote saying anything like that. What I recall saying, which convienently only requires scrolling up a little, is that violent antifa aren't typical of leftists like you claim they are.

I also recall saying that you seem to conflate different leftwing groups to project the worst traits of some onto the whole. Your posts have all the nuance of describing Timothy McVeigh as behaving like a typical conservative.


Nice straw man, once again. God you racists and your logical fallacies. The only people I'm identifying are RadLeftists, communists, and antifa. I consider myself a Leftist; the sane kind, not the insane murderous racist bigoted kind that you and others on this board align with.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Quote:
If I were to ask you yourself to prove to me that you are not a racist, how would you do that?


I would point out the difficulty of proving a negative statement like that and note that I have no history of making racist comments or engaging in racist behavior and let that suffice.

I wouldn't post a collage of selfies I took with black people, because not only would that not prove I'm not a racist, it would be an example of a classic fallacious argument racists are fond of using to prove they aren't racist.

Trump isn't being asked to prove he doesn't think something in absence of evidence one way or another. Trump has a lengthy public record of racist behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:10 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
You said you read the mod comments in the mod forum. That means you were brought into that private conversation. I assume that most likely means Liz shared the contents with you. I don't think it has to mean that you were given admin access to the forum. Words, man.


I could have been more clear, that's true.

You already have a message from me sitting in your PM's. What I say privately, I have no problem saying publicly.

Yes, she did. She dumped long series of exchanges in my email. Just so you know, I never once prompted her to do that.

Water under the bridge and I probably shouldn't have brought it up on the thread...I was messing with you, EAllusion.

Sorry. Not sorry.
;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
Feel free to offer a single quote saying anything like that. What I recall saying, which convienently only requires scrolling up a little, is that violent antifa aren't typical of leftists like you claim they are.

I also recall saying that you seem to conflate different leftwing groups to project the worst traits of some onto the whole. Your posts have all the nuance of describing Timothy McVeigh as behaving like a typical conservative.


Nice straw man, once again. God you racists and your logical fallacies. The only people I'm identifying are RadLeftists, communists, and antifa. I consider myself a Leftist; the sane kind, not the insane murderous racist bigoted kind that you and others on this board align with.

- Doc


Also Doc Cam:

viewtopic.php?p=1074964#p1074964

Quote:
More typical Leftist behavior. They're openly attacking Trump supporters. Not Nazis. Not the KKK. Just Trump supporters.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/08/27/berkeley- ... break-out/

Gee. Who woulda thunk it?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:13 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Quote:
If I were to ask you yourself to prove to me that you are not a racist, how would you do that?


I would point out the difficulty of proving a negative statement like that and note that I have no history of making racist comments or engaging in racist behavior and let that suffice.

I wouldn't post a collage of selfies I took with black people, because not only would that not prove I'm not a racist, it would be an example of a classic fallacious argument racists are fond of using to prove they aren't racist.

Trump isn't being asked to prove he doesn't think something in absence of evidence one way or another. Trump has a lengthy public record of racist behavior.


Dang, you're right about proving a negative. *smacks self upside own head*

I can still make this work. Cam is accusing you of being a racist based on evidence that he sees in your remarks. What is your counter argument?

Maybe I should just watch...but I'm curious to how you yourself would offer counter challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Quote:


Quote:
More typical Leftist behavior. They're openly attacking Trump supporters. Not Nazis. Not the KKK. Just Trump supporters.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/08/27/berkeley- ... break-out/

Gee. Who woulda thunk it?

- Doc


Ya got me. I should've put 'Radical' in front of Leftist. I apologize for the omission. See? No skin off my nose. Let's see if you can shift a bit or admit an error here or there. It'd help heal the wounds and the great divide we're currently experiencing.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:20 pm 
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I find it reeeeally interesting that EAllusion has no black friends, and that Kevin Graham has moved to a lily white neighborhood.

I'm not saying that's what racists do, but that's what racists do.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I find it reeeeally interesting that EAllusion has no black friends, and that Kevin Graham has moved to a lily white neighborhood.

I'm not saying that's what racists do, but that's what racists do.

- Doc


I don't currently have any black friends, though I have had. I have black family members and one pseudo black family member--because I told some hospital folks (Landstuhl) I was the sister of a co-worker (comatose patient--TBI) so I could get in to sit with her. Oddly enough, they let me in.

I moved into an area with wild animals. The only thing one can surmise from my chosen location is that I would rather face wild animals than I would people. So true.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:

I can still make this work. Cam is accusing you of being a racist based on evidence that he sees in your remarks. What is your counter argument?

Maybe I should just watch...but I'm curious to how you yourself would offer counter challenge.
Cam's reasoning is unhinged and at a certain point you have to trust others' ability to read.

To the argument that I'm using a black puppet, what I actually did is quote a journalist known for commentary on racial issues explaining what's gravely wrong with the "plantation" argument he used. That's not puppeteering. That's just quoting a good argument. It's also self-contradictory with his earlier arguments that rely on quoting a racial minority and insisting the mere act of disagreeing with them is inherently racist. (Presumably, this was meant as a parody argument of others, but I obviously don't think disagreeing with black people is racist.)

Speaking of which, to the argument that I'm racist because I disagreed with a minority, it is not racist merely to disagree with a minority.

To the argument that I'm racist because I keep black people oppressed with welfare to further my personal job security, that' just badly misunderstands my job so I don't even have to get into the specifics of why that's a offensive characterization of social work.

To the argument that I'm racist because I live in a 70ish% white neighborhood, I don't think living in Madison, WI is inherently a racist act. Madison is 84% white. Wisconsin is 87% white. Living in the state you were born is not a racist act. I'm not fleeing racial diversity and contrary to what he states, I did not move into a more white area. I moved into a less white area. It wasn't for the quality of the schools. It was because of the cost of the home, other neighborhood amenities, and proximity to places I go.

(It was my second choice, but the first home I was going to purchase got an acceptable offer in a few hours before me.)


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Black Moclips wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XXbgKUKeRw

Even if the lefty's here won't recognize it, MSNBC is now reporting on it.

Bringing this forward because I got side tracked by my own bad form and I also suspect that other folks overlooked it in the heat of the exchanges.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:59 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:

I can still make this work. Cam is accusing you of being a racist based on evidence that he sees in your remarks. What is your counter argument?

Maybe I should just watch...but I'm curious to how you yourself would offer counter challenge.
Cam's reasoning is unhinged and at a certain point you have to trust others' ability to read.

To the argument that I'm using a black puppet, what I actually did is quote a journalist known for commentary on racial issues explaining what's gravely wrong with the "plantation" argument he used. That's not puppeteering. That's just quoting a good argument. It's also self-contradictory with his earlier arguments that rely on quoting a racial minority and insisting the mere act of disagreeing with them is inherently racist. (Presumably, this was meant as a parody argument of others, but I obviously don't think disagreeing with black people is racist.)

Speaking of which, to the argument that I'm racist because I disagreed with a minority, it is not racist merely to disagree with a minority.

To the argument that I'm racist because I keep black people oppressed with welfare to further my personal job security, that' just badly misunderstands my job so I don't even have to get into the specifics of why that's a offensive characterization of social work.

To the argument that I'm racist because I live in a 70ish% white neighborhood, I don't think living in Madison, WI is inherently a racist act. Madison is 84% white. Wisconsin is 87% white. Living in the state you were born is not a racist act. I'm not fleeing racial diversity and contrary to what he states, I did not move into a more white area. I moved into a less white area. It wasn't for the quality of the schools. It was because of the cost of the home, other neighborhood amenities, and proximity to places I go.

(It was my second choice, but the first home I was going to purchase got an acceptable offer in a few hours before me.)


Listen, I am getting spread way too thin over here and it's not simply these exchanges. I think what I want to say is that I believe that to a certain extent we all naturally carry an element of ethnocentrism in our personalities that plays out in our IRL choices to some degree. I do think that ethnocentrism has some overlap into what we think of as racism, possibly even fuels racism, and I don't see that as entirely useful to accuse others here of being racist (with the clear exception of one Stormfront poster) any more than I think it's useful to wholesale accuse Trump of being racist.

I maintain that I don't think Trump is racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Black Moclips wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XXbgKUKeRw

Even if the lefty's here won't recognize it, MSNBC is now reporting on it.


Bringing this forward because I got side tracked by my own bad form and I also suspect that other folks overlooked it in the heat of the exchanges.


What is this supposed to prove? This is like a straw man fantasy land here. Who on this forum has ever endorsed ANTIFA or said they never get violent? What I've seen from EAllusion is a well informed argument that ANTIFA is an irrelevant fringe movement and doesn't carry any weight in politics. The same is not true of the White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis. They're mixed up in the Trump administration at various levels and the protesters at their rallies promote Trump and wear his red magic hat. ANTIFA are mostly anarchists (against all government) who support no political party or candidate, so constantly referring to them as the "Left" is just intellectually dishonest.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Antifa is a mixture of various leftwing ideologues, opportunistic anarchists, and (mostly young) people looking for an organized movement to oppose alt-right types. From them you get people who are basically identical to the ones who rioted in the WTO protests in Seattle in 1999 to people who show up holding signs to express their support of Muslim rights and dignity.

They are a notable player in protest culture at this very moment in that you can expect to see some of them show up to any major protest and possibly cause a ruckus, but they are not a political force. They also aren't a representation of the American left. This does contrast with something like a Trump rally which does represent a valid sample of important forces within American conservatism and its political power.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:53 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
They also aren't a representation of the American left. This does contrast with something like a Trump rally which does represent a valid sample of important forces within American conservatism and its political power.


Holy F---balls you have a huge blind spot. You are so laughably full of ____. You want to distance yourself from extremism while condemning an entire swath of the electorate to the very fate you're desperately avoiding.

God. Damn. You're delusional.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
They also aren't a representation of the American left. This does contrast with something like a Trump rally which does represent a valid sample of important forces within American conservatism and its political power.


Holy F---balls you have a huge blind spot. You are so laughably full of ____. You want to distance yourself from extremism while condemning an entire swath of the electorate to the very fate you're desperately avoiding.

God. Damn. You're delusional.

- Doc


Gary Johnson was the presidential candidate this past election closest to my political views. I'm not trying to disassociate myself from a political point of view that is extremely far from my own. There is a large body of survey data and political action that tells us that the opinions expressed at a Trump rally match what a lot of conservatives think and will effort to do. There is no such data to back up painting the American left as filled with black bloc types looking to break stuff.

Trump is President of the United States. Support for suppression of opposition voters is a near universal position among elected Republican officials. Let me know when a communist revolutionary even ballparks getting the Democratic nomination.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:27 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Let me know when a communist revolutionary even ballparks getting the Democratic nomination.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Why Allowing Nazis to March is Dangerous
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:02 pm 
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http://www.theonion.com/article/antifa- ... azi--56783


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