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 Post subject: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:53 am 
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...according to Hillary

HOLT: Secretary Clinton, last week, you said we’ve got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias. Do you believe that police are implicitly biased against black people?

CLINTON: Lester, I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police. I think, unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. And therefore, I think we need all of us to be asking hard questions about, you know, why am I feeling this way?


So, Hillary, you, me, and everyone else reading and not reading this thread is a racist - AND racism is a "feeling".

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:27 am 
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One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:34 am 
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canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


I think "bias" is part of human nature, the instinct to protect one's own and familiarity can bring a lack of perspective and tolerance for things outside of that box, but "racism"... Nope.

Racism is entirely cultural and ideological. You're trained to be racist.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:51 am 
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canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?

I believe that assessing human beings, animals, and other objects in nature by their physical appearance is reasonable. I also believe that these assessments justify, if not inspire, action. Now whether this is "learned" or "inherent" is an interesting discussion - i would be inclined to think that our physical assessment of objects is an inherent mechanism due to the presence of eyes, nerves, olfactory, etc.

The judgment for an action should be the only concern for a community/society. Would someone be punished if it was discovered that the only reason they saved a drowning man was because of the color of his skin?

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:05 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Now whether this is "learned" or "inherent" is an interesting discussion - i would be inclined to think that our physical assessment of objects is an inherent mechanism due to the presence of eyes, nerves, olfactory, etc.

It's kind of a mix of both. Responses to racial prototypicality don't necessarily seem to be learned. At least not based on some of the various studies on target acquisition, weapon identification, etc. There was also a study a while back that indicated that babies are prone to racial bias (this one though, seems to be environment specific, so it's kind of a eggs/chicken thing).

On the flip side, there are studies that have also demonstrated that our perception of cultural stereotypes and personal levels of racial contact can have an impact on bias (in particular, evaluating armed/unarmed status of individuals). There is also a study that showed that racial features can act as fear-conditioned stimuli and change where the brain/eyes focus their attention.


(Edited to add: The Hidden Brain podcast is pretty cool, if you're looking for something to kill time.)

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:26 am 
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canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


But only white people can be racist. So how does that work?

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:34 am 
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[quote="Maxine Waters" Ajax]

But only white people can be racist. So how does that work?[/quote]

Only you are claiming that.


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:36 am 
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ldsfaqs wrote:
canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


I think "bias" is part of human nature, the instinct to protect one's own and familiarity can bring a lack of perspective and tolerance for things outside of that box, but "racism"... Nope.

Racism is entirely cultural and ideological. You're trained to be racist.


Mormons get their racism training from God...
Quote:
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:40 am 
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SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:42 am 
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Maxine Waters wrote:
canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


But only white people can be racist. So how does that work?

Check with ldsfaqs. He maintains that only black people can be racist.

Now what?


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:43 am 
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The CCC wrote:


If the content of 2nd Nephi 5 has been denounced by President Newsroom as 'personal opinion', and disavowed by President Essay as "theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse"....

...why is it still right there in the canon?

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:50 am 
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Because Nephites and Lamanites were the same race.
SEE http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/ ... -blackness


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:04 am 
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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:13 am 
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The CCC wrote:
Because Nephites and Lamanites were the same race.
SEE http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/ ... -blackness


Sure. But half the race was literally "cursed" with dark skin. You can tap dance all around that if you want, but historically the Church had been very racist right down to its scriptural narrative.

It's nice it shifted its views to where it is today, though. I thought it was really great that the Church appointed POC when two new apostleships opened up. You know. Since it's totally not racist, totally not a White-Patriarchal-Familial organization, and totally not an American-centric church.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Lot depends on how it is read. The Bible makes similar comments, and so has every other culture on the face of the earth at one time or another.

We were very UScentric, probably as a reaction to being kicked out of the US, and wanting to remain part of US society. Then for a while we were very Utahcentic. As we become more and more of a world wide church that idea is changing. The fastest growing area of the Church is subsaharan Africa.

We are and will continue to be a Patriarchal-Family oriented church. Our idea of Heaven is that of a loving family for all of eternity.


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:15 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
We are and will continue to be a Patriarchal-Family oriented church. Our idea of Heaven is that of a loving family for all of eternity.


No. You misunderstand. The Mormon church is literally a nepotistic white patriarchal family-run business. Dynastic. It's more incestual than the Lannisters from Game of Thrones.

Anyway. I know my 1/2 Brazilian in-laws were disappointed that a church that claims 1.3 millions adherents in Brazil alone couldn't be bothered to appoint a hispanic man to an apostleship.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Yes, I think we all are biased - can't help but think in subjective (limited) ways. And I also think that people are especially blind to their biases that align with their favorite herd mentality. This applies to religious, anti-religious, political - besides ethnic and cultural herds. A study found that the people who were most vocal about NOT being racists - were most racist when tested. It's best to be honest with ourselves - admit if we are partial - and consider why - rather than act on it blindly.

The solution? Experience - and ideally when young. When kids can play with people of different beliefs, different appearance, accents, etc. - they can learn that they can get along with others who are not in their little tribe. They see some common aspects in just being human. They are then better able to extend the view of the tribe to include all humanity.


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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Maxine Waters wrote:
canpakes wrote:
One could argue that a type of racism is literally programmed into our more primitive minds since ancient days prior to modern humanity, as a survival mechanism. What's your take on that?


But only white people can be racist. So how does that work?


Much of the problem is vocabulary and can be cured by simply listening to what someone else is saying as opposed to being a white coward who hides behind the image of a strong black woman thinks taking juvenile cheap shots is meaningful discussion.

People who say "only whites can be racist" aren't saying "only whites are racially biased" or "only whites are racially prejudiced." They are saying that only whites have the ability (in the U.S.) to turn those biases and prejudices into widespread legal, social, and economic harm to minority racial groups. It is not a statement about some intrinsic characteristic of white folks -- it is simply an observation that white folks are in a position in our society to enforce those prejudices in the real world in a way that numerical minority groups are not.

The people who use the term "racist" in this manner will often express this concept as "racial prejudice plus power = racism"

I think it makes perfect sense to talk about racial prejudice in a way that differentiates "racial prejudice" from "racial prejudice plus power." If one doesn't, I don't think it is possible to explain this history of the treatment of black folks in the U.S. Black folks in North Carolina may be as racially biased as the white folks there, but the white folks have the ability to change the laws to keep black folks from voting -- not the other way around. Racial prejudice in a vacuum and racial prejudice embedded in political, economic, are two very different things. The problem is, we don't have a vocabulary that makes that distinction.

If I ruled the universe, I'd probably make up a new word to define as "racial prejudice plus power." But I really don't care what word someone uses to express a concept -- I'm much more interested in the concept they are trying to express.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Amore wrote:
The solution? Experience - and ideally when young. When kids can play with people of different beliefs, different appearance, accents, etc. - they can learn that they can get along with others who are not in their little tribe. They see some common aspects in just being human. They are then better able to extend the view of the tribe to include all humanity.


I agree, you missed different sexual orientation in your list of groups young people should have experience with but otherwise you are right on. All of these experiences can only create a better rounded, more tolerant and understanding individual.

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:52 pm 
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schreech wrote:
Amore wrote:
The solution? Experience - and ideally when young. When kids can play with people of different beliefs, different appearance, accents, etc. - they can learn that they can get along with others who are not in their little tribe. They see some common aspects in just being human. They are then better able to extend the view of the tribe to include all humanity.


I agree, you missed different sexual orientation in your list of groups young people should have experience with but otherwise you are right on. All of these experiences can only create a better rounded, more tolerant and understanding individual.


I believe the omission was intentional....

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 Post subject: Re: We are all racist...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:17 pm 
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They are saying that only whites have the ability (in the U.S.) to turn those biases and prejudices into widespread legal, social, and economic harm to minority racial groups.


I guess Barack Obama, Loretta Lynch, and Jesse Jackson just don't have the political power and authority that we do over at Stormfront. Therefore when Barack Obama attends the GD America church led by Jeremiah Wright preaching anti white racist sentiments and is immersed in the black liberation theology of Frank Marshall Davis, it's not really racism because he's only president of the US and doesn't have any power to put his views into practice.

Ask the Duke Lacrosse team if blacks along with leftist reverse racist whites don't have power as a minority to enforce their racist public views. You can be dismissed from college and lose millions in attorney fees just trying to prove your innocence and keep your freedom based solely on the false accusations of a psychotic murdereress. And after the truth comes out, she suffers no consequence nor pays any penalty for the damage her false witness caused.

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“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Last edited by Maxine Waters on Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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