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 Post subject: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:29 am 
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Tonight there was a news item about a security guard assaulting a transgender person attempting to use the women's room in Washington D.C.

I wonder what would happen if Transgendered People started using their sex-appropriate restrooms, just like the law (and presumably God) in certain God-fearing parts of the country intends.

So you and your son Jimmy are in the restroom at a ballgame and the urinal next to Jimmy is now occupied by an obviously transgendered but nevertheless stunning blonde in fishnet stockings who hitches up his skirt over his sex-appropriate plumbing.

You know what would happen: Transgendered persons following the law would face a greater risk of assault than they do now. The reason this doesn't happen is that transgendered people do not use their sex-appropriate restrooms.

Society is stuck between the horns of a dilemma: We say are not discriminatory, but many, in the name of God, would create a situation that would increase the likelihood of vigilante assaults. How can this be a better situation?

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:51 am 
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Spoiler alert:
Having a men's restroom distinct from a women's restroom is already an act of discrimination.

The scenario you describe above is not controversial (or relevant) because ultimately the reality reveals itself and the appropriate sex is in the appropriate restroom.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:34 am 
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My question is what is going to happen when transgendered people start wanting to play sports in the other gender? Will people accept a sports loss to a team of girls that includes biological males that identify as female?

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:52 am 
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An aside- Its "transgender" not "transgendered."

But, yes, it would obviously cause major problems for the scenario you give.

This "issue" seems to have been manufactured merely for political purposes. It's not to protect people.

There is a simple solution that is already being used in some places.

Make a multiple use restroom to have a common (open) sink area and then all the stalls are floor to ceiling fully enclosed with a lock. No problems.

Locker rooms can have areas with fabric curtains for people who are shy.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:57 am 
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cinepro wrote:
My question is what is going to happen when transgendered people start wanting to play sports in the other gender? Will people accept a sports loss to a team of girls that includes biological males that identify as female?


Trans people have already been dealing with the issue of being allowed to play sports.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:02 am 
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just me wrote:
cinepro wrote:
My question is what is going to happen when transgendered people start wanting to play sports in the other gender? Will people accept a sports loss to a team of girls that includes biological males that identify as female?


Trans people have already been dealing with the issue of being allowed to play sports.


Yes. Somewhat famously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards


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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:08 am 
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just me wrote:
An aside- Its "transgender" not "transgendered."


Absolutely. Thank you, Just Me.


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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:23 pm 
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just me wrote:
An aside- Its "transgender" not "transgendered."

But, yes, it would obviously cause major problems for the scenario you give.

This "issue" seems to have been manufactured merely for political purposes. It's not to protect people.

There is a simple solution that is already being used in some places.

Make a multiple use restroom to have a common (open) sink area and then all the stalls are floor to ceiling fully enclosed with a lock. No problems.

Locker rooms can have areas with fabric curtains for people who are shy.

There is no rational or reasonable justification for making such burdensome and costly concessions.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:33 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
There is no rational or reasonable justification for making such burdensome and costly concessions.

Then maybe you should just stop worrying about other people's junk when you're in a restroom.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:34 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Spoiler alert:
Having a men's restroom distinct from a women's restroom is already an act of discrimination.

The scenario you describe above is not controversial (or relevant) because ultimately the reality reveals itself and the appropriate sex is in the appropriate restroom.


So you're saying all men will respond to a man dressed as a woman pulling a penis out of her panties to pee and say "Oh, that's cool, it's a guy", and that person would not be any more likely to be attacked than any other man in the restroom?

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:43 am 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
... and that person would not be any more likely to be attacked than any other man in the restroom?

You can almost hear those Southern banjos dueling as you ask that question.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:47 pm 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Spoiler alert:
Having a men's restroom distinct from a women's restroom is already an act of discrimination.

The scenario you describe above is not controversial (or relevant) because ultimately the reality reveals itself and the appropriate sex is in the appropriate restroom.


So you're saying all men will respond to a man dressed as a woman pulling a penis out of her panties to pee and say "Oh, that's cool, it's a guy", and that person would not be any more likely to be attacked than any other man in the restroom?

As likely as that same man revealing the same in woman's restroom.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:18 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
just me wrote:
An aside- Its "transgender" not "transgendered."

But, yes, it would obviously cause major problems for the scenario you give.

This "issue" seems to have been manufactured merely for political purposes. It's not to protect people.

There is a simple solution that is already being used in some places.

Make a multiple use restroom to have a common (open) sink area and then all the stalls are floor to ceiling fully enclosed with a lock. No problems.

Locker rooms can have areas with fabric curtains for people who are shy.

There is no rational or reasonable justification for making such burdensome and costly concessions.


Riiiiiight. Just like ramps and wheelchair accessible restrooms have no rational or reasonable justification.

If people are actually worried about restroom assaults and rapes this would not be seen as unreasonable.

But, they aren't. This is pure fearmongering and politicking.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:47 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
There is no rational or reasonable justification for making such burdensome and costly concessions.


We've already accommodated family restrooms. There's no reason we cannot make inclusive accommodations as just me has described for multi-gender restrooms.

It's called an accommodation, not a concession.

When we make our public spaces wheel chair accessible, we're not making a concession. We're making an accommodation.

Learn the language of the society that you live in.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:22 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Spoiler alert:
Having a men's restroom distinct from a women's restroom is already an act of discrimination.

The scenario you describe above is not controversial (or relevant) because ultimately the reality reveals itself and the appropriate sex is in the appropriate restroom.

MeDotOrg wrote:
So you're saying all men will respond to a man dressed as a woman pulling a penis out of her panties to pee and say "Oh, that's cool, it's a guy", and that person would not be any more likely to be attacked than any other man in the restroom?

subgenius wrote:
As likely as that same man revealing the same in woman's restroom.

But men would not have to reveal themselves in a women's room, there aren't any urinals.

Seriously, when do you see a man's junk if he's not at a urinal?

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:52 pm 
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MeDotOrg wrote:
But men would not have to reveal themselves in a women's room, there aren't any urinals.

Not all restrooms, male or female, have privacy partitions. The opportunity to reveal is not confined to the act of urination/defecation, it could also occur with a vanity moment at the mirror.
Again, the whole idea of having a men's room and women s room to begin with defies your argument. The distinction for these facilities is based on physical reality not psychological preference - your recognition of a urinal makes this truth abundantly clear. A urinal(or stadium trough) is not a fixture designed for psychological preference.

MeDotOrg wrote:
Seriously, when do you see a man's junk if he's not at a urinal?

When it's a gym locker room, or a barracks, or when the restroom has communal showers (like school), etc.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:54 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Not all restrooms, male or female, have privacy partitions.

Excellent point. Without firm laws and a Trans-Police, those restrooms might be run with the laxity of a Japanese bath or a European beach.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:01 am 
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moksha wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Not all restrooms, male or female, have privacy partitions.

Excellent point. Without firm laws and a Trans-Police, those restrooms might be run with the laxity of a Japanese bath or a European beach.

Both of which i am sure you are pleased and free to relieve your bladder and bowels upon with regularity and unfettered access.

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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:04 pm 
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If you ever look at maps of convicted child sexual abusers, you'll realize there are many - and right in your neighborhood.

Many with a history of sex crimes seek situations to have acess to victims.
Considering this, as a father of a little girl, how would you feel about a grown man dressing up as a girl just to have access to your daughter and other girls in the restroom?

I'm not saying people pretending & dressing up to be the opposite sex are child abusers as much as I'm saying these special allowances could be used by sex preditors to prey.


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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Amore wrote:
If you ever look at maps of convicted child sexual abusers, you'll realize there are many - and right in your neighborhood.

Many with a history of sex crimes seek situations to have acess to victims.
Considering this, as a father of a little girl, how would you feel about a grown man dressing up as a girl just to have access to your daughter and other girls in the restroom?

I'm not saying people pretending & dressing up to be the opposite sex are child abusers as much as I'm saying these special allowances could be used by sex preditors to prey.
The type of event you are describing is so rare that there currently aren't any known examples of it. Mathematically, you should be infinitely more worried about shark attacks. But let's suppose that wasn't the case. You want this guy to have to use women's restrooms, correct?

Image

Seeing how he's supposed to be allowed to walk with impunity into women's bathrooms, how do you stop someone merely pretending to look like him from going in for the purposes of sexual predation?


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 Post subject: Re: A Transgender Question
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:45 pm 
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I know! So we know that someone is a transgender man and not a man merely posing as one to gain access to women's restrooms for the purpose of committing sex crimes, how about we pass a law that requires them to wear easily visible identification on their clothes?

So many options to choose from:

Image

Why wouldn't someone just then wear that then? Good question. How about society takes the law into its own hands and makes it a little, um, rough to be wearing that identification. That way, no one would willingly do it. Problem solved.


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