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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:16 am 
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Could be, Honor. I didn’t look at the absolute numbers for LFP.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:21 am 
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Brackite wrote:
Icarus wrote:
So there are more Americans not working now than there were under Obama.


There are slightly more Americans out of the labor force now than when Obama left office.

December of 2016: 95,031,000
December of 2019: 95,625,000

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS15000000


To get the total of people not working, you have to add the total of not participating in the labor force to the total unemployed.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:34 am 
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iwanttotalk wrote:

The numbers were fake then too. In fact the great recession was harder on men than the great depression. But since women worked their incomes supplimented a lost generation of men and boys.

The reason you don't hear about it often is feminism and propaganda. But it is there if you look.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

that's why a certain class of people hate “tolerance and equality” because its really something else for them. Opression.

Copy that article if you want it. It will be unfindable soon. “He who controls the past”


You are misrepresenting what Will’s opinion piece says. He is talking about men that are out of the work force, not men that are unemployed. That means men who haven’t tried to get a job in the last month. But Will doesn’t attempt to look at why more men out of the age group he focuses on are leaving the work force. (by the way, he doesn’t discuss the other age brackets, where the opposite trend exists.

Rather than trying to find out why this trend is happening, you jump straight to identity politics to fuel resentment against other groups: they are taking our (i.e, white men’s) jobs. But that’s not what even Will is saying in his column. He says jobs exists for those men — they just aren’t taking them . But that doesn’t fit your resentment fueled world view.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
How much of a whiny ____ do you have to be to think white men are now an oppressed demographic?

LOL... wow.

I'll just say: you have to be quite the ____ loser to not be able to take advantage of your white maleness.

Lol, right? I can’t wait for him to tell me how he has suffered, and who he believes was the cause of it.

Goin’ for popcorn. BRB again.


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:36 pm 
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Icarus wrote:
So there are more Americans not working now than there were under Obama.

and more working...funny how facts work when you take a not-so-narrow view of reality.
But hey, spin-smart isn't necessary with Dem/Libs...keep it dumb, emotional, and self-loathing is all you really need to stir that base.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:22 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Icarus wrote:
So there are more Americans not working now than there were under Obama.

and more working...funny how facts work when you take a not-so-narrow view of reality.
But hey, spin-smart isn't necessary with Dem/Libs...keep it dumb, emotional, and self-loathing is all you really need to stir that base.

As this is being discussed to illustrate the inanity of a favorite conservative talking point, thanks for driving that home further by being forced to abandon it for other partisan reasons. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:59 pm 
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LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!

I suppose if anyone can recognize dumb and emotional it’d be our resident turbotard.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:43 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!

I suppose if anyone can recognize dumb and emotional it’d be our resident turbotard.

- Doc

Hey Doc! great rebuttal if one is into deflections. Cool how it doesn't refute the claim but rather just spreads the claim wider so as to console yourself....kewl.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:46 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
As this is being discussed to illustrate the inanity of a favorite conservative talking point, thanks for driving that home further by being forced to abandon it for other partisan reasons. ; )

Yep, funny how you say "conservative talking point" while ithers simply say "fact" or "data". But i get ya, you're used to liberal talking points, aka "shrrriieeek!"

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:14 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!

I suppose if anyone can recognize dumb and emotional it’d be our resident turbotard.

- Doc


Hey Doc! great rebuttal if one is into deflections. Cool how it doesn't refute the claim but rather just spreads the claim wider so as to console yourself....kewl.


LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP! Phony! Fake! Pathetic! Low class slob! Lying liar!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... sults.html

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:20 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Icarus wrote:
So there are more Americans not working now than there were under Obama.

and more working...funny how facts work when you take a not-so-narrow view of reality.
But hey, spin-smart isn't necessary with Dem/Libs...keep it dumb, emotional, and self-loathing is all you really need to stir that base.


The number of working Americans wasn't the concern in the OP, but there were more Americans working when it was posted just the same so your response is kinda dumb. Maybe you should try paying attention to detail instead of doing exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing. Republicans have been "spinning" the employment numbers since Obama got elected and they dramatically changed the way they spun them as soon as Trump got elected.

I never will forget after Trump was elected FOX News's "The Five" were tripping over themselves with fawning laughter because the unemployment rate was half as much during Trump's second month as it was during Obama's second month. Those are solid "facts" though, right? They didn't even make the lamest attempt at context because they knew their brain-dead viewers wouldn't understand it anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:30 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
As this is being discussed to illustrate the inanity of a favorite conservative talking point, thanks for driving that home further by being forced to abandon it for other partisan reasons. ; )

Yep, funny how you say "conservative talking point" while ithers simply say "fact" or "data". But i get ya, you're used to liberal talking points, aka "shrrriieeek!"

The number of folks working, or not, is indeed ‘data’. I’m glad that you are able to recognize actual data from time to time. But given your usual comprehension issues it’s not surprising that you are confusing the thread’s focus on misuse of data in pursuit of stupid partisan pandering for something else supplied by your age-addled imagination.


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
.... focus on misuse of data in pursuit of stupid partisan pandering for something else supplied by your age-addled imagination.

Naw, i got that example from the poster noting the comparison between participation numbers from Obama to Trump....that was pandering to Dem/Libs in spite of the facts and the data on participation number trends.
But you guys like that kinda focus.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:55 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
.... focus on misuse of data in pursuit of stupid partisan pandering for something else supplied by your age-addled imagination.

Naw, i got that example from the poster noting the comparison between participation numbers from Obama to Trump....that was pandering to Dem/Libs in spite of the facts and the data on participation number trends.
But you guys like that kinda focus.

Tell that to the conservative poster who started this thread.
; )

Work on that attention span of yours, already. It’s always a bit off.


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:24 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
If Hillary is elected, I predict the debt will rise to over $30 trillion before she leaves office.


Boy, that didn't age well.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

We're over $23T right now.

Anyway. I'm only resurrecting this thread because I'm shoehorning this interesting Reddit post about not pulling your weight into Ajax 1-Adolf 8-Hiter's thread:

Quote:
/u/RoidParade describes how poor whites were viewed and treated in the Confederate South.

https://www.reddit.com/r/redneckrevolt/ ... s/fht6nzn/

A few reminders:

Your household owning 20 slaves exempted you from military service in the Confederacy effectively relieving around 85% of slave owners and their families from their military obligation. This meant that they saw little to no reduction in their quality of life as a result of the war.

The strategy for upward mobility according to most of the gentry? Save up for 1 female slave and “breed her” yourself. So you could be as rich as us if you were up for owning people and rape with the intent to force childbirth. Living through childbirth as a black woman back then was like trying to get through the AC of a beholder. So even if we ignore the monstrousness and look at pure numbers it’s like telling people the way to class mobility is Vegas.

States’ Rights? It was illegal in the Confederacy for any state to outlaw slavery.

The poor starved in the street while the gentry sacrificed nothing. This led to multiple uprisings (bread riots etc) among poor southern women. One in RVA proper included the women throwing stale bread at Jefferson Davis as he tried to calm them. Women were often jailed or worse for trying to get food for their children.

We actually have quite a bit of evidence that the bulk of the destruction inflicted by the Union in the South was targeted rather than the wild reckless chaos we were sold. Several generals had their men under orders to burn plantation houses and other upper class strongholds but to leave the shantytowns and the like untouched. The Union was highly conscious of whose war it was.

The people were also aware whose war it was. The rate of deserting confederate soldiers was staggering until the punishment for deserting was increased to death. That worked for a short time but in the long term all it did was give deserters less incentive to return. So towards the end of the war the punishment for deserting was reduced again in the hopes that the deserters would return.

None of this awfulness was particularly secret. In Confederate propaganda the Union was referred to as “a nation of mudsills” with mudsills being the absolute bottom of the class structure. At the time it was argued that there would always be mudsills and that a barely surviving lower class was necessary to build the rest of society on top of. In other words; a less cool sounding word for Morlocks. The Confederacy wanted Morlocks to be a thing and they were basically saying to poor whites; society is gonna have Morlocks- is it gonna be you or the blacks? In fact they were so committed to keeping the poor destitute they came up with a whole ass economic theory about it. That wiki is a good read if you were worried about having low blood pressure today.

We also know that the Confederate gentry actually believed poor whites to be less valuable than blacks or native americans. Poor white men were actually encouraged to breed with natives in the hopes that the addition of “proud indian blood” would wash the shiftlessness out of their weak poor white garbage blood. The thought it was absurd that white people didn’t work as hard as slaves plus they wanted to be paid?!? Ew no why?!

Also, if you thought that the Confederate gentry was completely without principles, you should know that several of them were running around trying to broker slave deals as the war was drawing to a close. The reasons for this were two-fold; some people actually believed that the correct state of blacks was slavery, and others just wanted to recoup costs. There’s a statue on Monument Avenue in RVA of just such a man whose goal was to find buyers in the Caribbean so that they didn’t have to actually set anyone free. I assume their descendants would go on to sell bad loans to poor people a hundred and fifty years hence.

All of this is to highlight when OP used the derogatory term ‘bootlicker’ not only did they mean it, but history ____ meant it too.

EDIT it seems the bootlickers have arrived. Sorry I don’t have a link. What I do have is a book by the T Harry Williams Professor of American History at Louisiana State University, Professor Nancy Isenberg: White Trash: A 400 Year History of Class In America. Y’all can check her sources. You won’t, but you could. They’re all right there in the back of the book.

also one chucklecuck down there tried the “states’ rights” argument again. Fool, that’s why I bothered to include it when it had nothing to do with the rest of my comment. That was for you; I wrote that when I saw you coming. The least you could do is read what I wrote for you.


Not that I expect anyone to read all that, but it sets the stage for the following labor theory set forth by Southern gentry:

Quote:
Mudsill theory

Mudsill theory is a sociological term indicating the proposition that there must be, and always has been, a lower class or underclass for the upper classes to rest upon. The term derives from a mudsill, the lowest threshold that supports the foundation for a building.

The theory was first used by South Carolina Senator/Governor James Henry Hammond, a wealthy southern plantation owner, in a Senate speech on March 4, 1858, to justify what he saw as the willingness of the lower classes and the duty of non-whites to perform menial work which enabled the higher classes to move civilization forward. Efforts to reduce class or racial inequality, under this theory, inevitably run counter to civilization itself.


If you scroll further down in the linked thread above you'll see Abraham Lincoln's passionate and well-reasoned argument against this theory. What's my point? These two quoted pieces from the linked thread above demonstrate the foundation upon which Ajax18's social and labor theory arises, though I doubt even he himself understands it. A lot southern whites have ties back to the southern gentry, so I think culturally there's definitely a master class mentality that still permeates their thinking. It's akin to the Mormon legacy families that rule Utah. They have a very strong cultural influence that ends up taking advantage of a mudsill class upon which they rest. Don't believe me? Look at our labor laws, and this 'right to work' state keeps the working poor just on the edge of poverty while working them to death.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:13 am 
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Not being registered in the Labor Force does not mean they weren't earning an income...

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:06 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Not being registered in the Labor Force does not mean they weren't earning an income...


Are you talking about people get paid under the table to avoid immigration and income tax laws?

Thus far there are 6.1 million fewer people on food stamps than when Trump took office.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:18 am 
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Quote:
If you scroll further down in the linked thread above you'll see Abraham Lincoln's passionate and well-reasoned argument against this theory. What's my point? These two quoted pieces from the linked thread above demonstrate the foundation upon which Ajax18's social and labor theory arises,


My ancestors were not even close to being part of the elite gentry. Neither was Stonewall Jackson. They lived very meagerly. The hills of West Virginia were never suitable to plantations with lots of slaves. Through patience and perseverance they climbed the economic ladder through generations. My direct ancestor in my fathers line managed to work a physical job the rest of his life after losing most of his leg in the war. DocCam you have no idea who these people were, what their life was like, and the legacy they left for me.

My grandfather was actually a Democrat though I'm sure he would not be any longer if he were alive today.

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:43 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
Thus far there are 6.1 million fewer people on food stamps than when Trump took office.

You can look at that graphically, at the following link ...

http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content/up ... onthly.jpg

The rate of decline has remained largely unchanged from many years prior to Trump’s election, through now.

Interestingly, there seems to be a bit of a plateau forming within the last several months. That points to Trump presiding over a poorer performance than his predecessor, if you’re using this as that sort of gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:54 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
If you scroll further down in the linked thread above you'll see Abraham Lincoln's passionate and well-reasoned argument against this theory. What's my point? These two quoted pieces from the linked thread above demonstrate the foundation upon which Ajax18's social and labor theory arises,


My ancestors were not even close to being part of the elite gentry. Neither was Stonewall Jackson. They lived very meagerly. The hills of West Virginia were never suitable to plantations with lots of slaves. Through patience and perseverance they climbed the economic ladder through generations. My direct ancestor in my fathers line managed to work a physical job the rest of his life after losing most of his leg in the war. DocCam you have no idea who these people were, what their life was like, and the legacy they left for me.

My grandfather was actually a Democrat though I'm sure he would not be any longer if he were alive today.


You, of course, didn't read my posts in their entirety thus missing the point, of course, spectacularly. It’s kinda your thing to be ignorantly responding to posts you dimly skim until your thick skull and smooth brain latches onto a sentence or two thus causing a fart bubble to float up from ass to your fingertips.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:58 am 
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ajax18 wrote:

Thus far there are 6.1 million fewer people on food stamps than when Trump took office.


The number of SNAP recipients began to plummet in 2013.


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