Laid off Americans Lazy?

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_ajax18
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Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _ajax18 »

During a recent National Journal LIVE event, venture capitalist Lars Dalgaard, who is closely affiliated with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s lobbying group FWD.us, suggested that the reason hundreds of American STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) and information technology (IT) workers at Southern California Edison utilities company were being laid off and replaced with foreign workers on H1B visas is because they “don’t work hard enough.”

FWD.us has openly lobbied for raising the cap on the number of H1-B visas permitted annually as part of President Barack Obama’s comprehensive immigration reform program, which critics refer to as executive amnesty.

As Breitbart News previously reported, the multi-billion dollar utilities company Southern California Edison has laid off scores of American IT workers, replacing them with foreign labor–specifically workers who are in the U.S. on H1-B visas and who are typically willing to work for far less compensation.

When the National Journal’s Niharika Acharya, who was moderating the panel discussion, asked about the Southern California Edison case, Dalgaard had this to say:

Dalgaard: You know, I’m relatively crude on that. If you want the job, make yourself able to get the job. Nobody’s going to hold you up and carry you around the world. This is what this whole country’s built on…If you’re not going to work hard enough to be qualified to get the job, like someone who doesn’t even live here yet….Well, then, you don’t deserve the job.

Acharya: Well, that might be harsh.

Acharya then turned to the other panelist, P.J. Cobut, who is a Belgian national, the founder of Echo Labs–and here on an H1B visa. SHe asked “do you agree with that?” Cobut replied, “Actually, I do.”

Cobut’s visa is set to expire on June 15 of this year, and a petition called “Let P.J. Stay” has been created to advocate for him to stay in Silicon Valley. He has said he will move his company to Canada if his extension is not approved.

Rutgers University Public Policy Professor Hal Salzman, who is an expert in the area of immigration and the STEM field, recently testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee that there are only half the number of STEM jobs available for graduates in that field every year, and thatAmerican graduates will likely be crowded out by H1-B visa holders due to the cost of hiring alone.

The cost of hiring an H1-B visa worker is approximately $30,000 less annually than hiring an American-born or naturalized U.S. citizen in the same field. T

“We don’t need foreign workers. We have plenty of Americans who are fully capable and equipped to carry out these jobs. It’s an absolute issue of corporate greed; nothing more nothing less,” former Edison employee and Marine Pat Lavin told Breitbart News. He said that SoCal Edison was replacing $95,000 annual wage earners with H1-B visa workers who will earn $60,000 to $65,000 instead.

The H1-B program was created in 1990 by Congress. Over the years, the costs of wages were never pegged to inflation, which resulted in a plateauing of salaries and rampant abuse of the program.

Professor Ron Hira of the Rochester Institute of Technology has said, “The Indian government dubs the H1B program the ‘outsourcing visa’,” and adds:

Congress in conjunction with multiple Administrations have inadvertently created a highly lucrative business model of bringing in cheaper H-1B workers to substitute for Americans… The H-1B program is most definitely harming American workers, harming them badly, and on a large scale.


I can't imagine it's very easy living off $65k/yr in Southern California. It just shows what mass immigration is doing to "college educated" American workers as well as semi skilled construction labor.
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Who are you going to blame? Shouldn't businesses be allowed to choose who they hire? Shouldn't they be allowed to pay those willing to work for less?

You can't say these immigrants are lazy moochers because they're working for a living. You can't blame them for being Socialists because this is just an unregulated free labor market in all its glory. A Republican's dream, so long as it excludes black and brown people, anyway.

If you want to blame government, think again. Legislation on these matters is written, produced and passed by the funding and lobbying efforts of corporate America. They are the ones who benefit the most from cheaper labor. But wait, blaming corporate American means blaming businesses. Can't do that and be a good Republican though, so who to blame?

Oh, I know, just chalk it up to "government" and forget about who is really behind it. That's sure to get a bunch of ignorant Right Wingers like you in a tizzy. Giving you yet another irrational basis for hating the left.

Established in 1990, the federal H-1B visa program allows employers to import up to 65,000 foreign workers each year to fill jobs that require "highly specialized knowledge." The Senate's bipartisan Immigration Innovation Act of 2013, or "I-Squared Act," would increase that cap to as many as 300,000 foreign workers. "The smartest, hardest-working, most talented people on this planet, we should want them to come here," Sen. Marco Rubio, (R-Fla.) said upon introducing the bill last month. "I, for one, have no fear that this country is going to be overrun by Ph.D.s."


Oh wait, Rubio is a Republican who wants to more than quadruple the number of annual applicant approvals. So maybe we should blame Republicans?
_ajax18
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _ajax18 »

Oh wait, Rubio is a Republican who wants to more than quadruple the number of annual applicant approvals. So maybe we should blame Republicans?


Cheap labor on the right, cheap votes on the left... Good for big corporations and big government politicians, a real screw for the average American worker.

To trust Rubio on the immigration issue is an act of desperation for any middle class taxpaying conservative. I think he's an amnesty guy at heart. But guess what, the people being hurt by immigration don't have the money to fund a presidential candidate, so it doesn't really matter what they think. Those that stand to benefit from the cheap labor are deeply invested in both Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

No one is being hurt by immigration.
_ajax18
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _ajax18 »

Kevin Graham wrote:No one is being hurt by immigration.


You mean no one is being hurt who has the means to do anything to stop it.
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_Gadianton
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _Gadianton »

Dalgaard: You know, I’m relatively crude on that. If you want the job, make yourself able to get the job. Nobody’s going to hold you up and carry you around the world. This is what this whole country’s built on…If you’re not going to work hard enough to be qualified to get the job, like someone who doesn’t even live here yet….Well, then, you don’t deserve the job.


This is the very opposite of what's going on. Because it's illegal to do what they're doing they have to place the emphasis on the replacement solution being an innovation that American workers don't have the talent for. What it is in actuality is a one-for-one replacement, but not replacing an inferior American worker with the superior foreign worker, it's the opposite. The bet is that the job is mundane enough that the immigrant worker possibly with no job experience or college can be shown the ropes and they can get rid of a more experienced American worker that costs far more with his years of experience, his living wage, and health benefits and so on.

The replacement worker more likely than not is lazier than his US counterpart. The image of a strawberry-picker working insanely hard doesn't apply here. It's the culture of these replacements to be laidback. If they are taking the job onshore in California in this case, they are subject to California law, so they can't work more than 40 hours a week without being paid overtime, and so they will never see a 41 hour work week. Since the labor goes through an outsourcer, it's a straight expense and a tax deduction, and so even cheaper than needing to higher a living-wage employee and pay payroll taxes on top of benefits. Another benefit is that it's a cultural thing to not really think outside the box and question authority. Their company has them by the balls and can treat them ruthlessly and they aren't going to cry to HR if hey think their boss is unfair.

So if the job is simplistic enough, and the process cookie-cutter, then this is a pretty good solution. Along with some of these scary tales of outsourcing, there is also plenty of insourcing. If the job has any complexity to it, then the model starts breaking down. Balgaard's words are sort of true though but for the opposite reason he intends. If you find yourself in a cush job and have lied to yourself thinking that only you can push the sequence of buttons you do, then you may find out the hard way it isn't true.

I can't imagine it's very easy living off $65k/yr in Southern California. It just shows what mass immigration is doing to "college educated" American workers as well as semi skilled construction labor.


It's extremely easy, Ajax. These H1Bs work for gigantic global outsourcers who own living complexes all over the States. They will bring the entire family and put them up for free in a tiny space in one of their buildings. Their transit to work can be provided for, so technically, that 65K is all food and other. They go back home doing well.

Who are you going to blame? Shouldn't businesses be allowed to choose who they hire? Shouldn't they be allowed to pay those willing to work for less?

No one is being hurt by immigration.


Free-Market models don't unequivocally show that two nations trading benefit each other equally and certainly the entire underclass is hurt by immigration and globalization. Don't let that stop Droopy and faqs from supporting their home team. It's even more hurtful once other factors are in play, such as anything and everything associated with liberal ideology: wage props, forced benefits, national education and healthcare etc. Free borders and socialism don't mix. It's obvious.

Depending on how the game is arranged, sure, a business should be able to hire whoever. But we have to accept that the business gets all the benefit, while society bears the cost of the displaced workers. If there is one factor that is probably killing poor people with the middleclass in its sites, it's probably globalization, whether immigration or otherwise.

It's a bizarre set of circumstances that EA probably understands better than I do where right-wingers have become anti-immigration and liberals have become pro-immigration. The talking points of either side on several issues aren't really consistent with each other, but that doesn't matter in a sound-byte war.

In this case, sure, a conservative with an IT business is pro immigration the established way because he doesn't have the prospects of undercutting his hired hands through illegals. If the same guy owned a Orchard instead, then his story would change.
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_ajax18
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _ajax18 »

Free borders and socialism don't mix. It's obvious.


+1000
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_moksha
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Re: Laid off Americans Lazy?

Post by _moksha »

ajax18 wrote:The cost of hiring an H1-B visa worker is approximately $30,000 less annually than hiring an American-born or naturalized U.S. citizen in the same field.

Capitalists owe no allegiance to any nation or individual. Making maximal profits is the be all end all of their values system. That is why their actions should always be suspect and our missile defense system targeting Galt Island.
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