Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

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_ludwigm
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _ludwigm »

ldsfaqs wrote:... there is no "law" against children firing guns ...
... because the lawmakers think the common sense is enough in many cases.


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/te ... index.html
April 8, 2013 CNN wrote:A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday.

No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said. The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning.

The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

Helm said she wasn't sure of the relationship between the boy and the Fannings. The TBI, which investigates incidents involving law enforcement officers, is still conducting its probe, and no charges have been filed.

The gun involved was Fanning's personal weapon, not his service pistol, she said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/ne ... -shooting/
April 9, 2013 CNN wrote:A 6-year-old New Jersey boy has died after being shot in the head by a 4-year-old playmate as their parents stood in the yard nearby, a local police chief said.

Brandon Holt was pronounced dead at 5 p.m. Tuesday at Jersey Shore University Medical Center in Neptune, according to Toms River police Chief Michael Mastronardy.

It was the second incident in the United States in recent days involving young children accidentally shooting others.

Brandon was playing in and around the 4-year-old's Toms River home on Monday evening when the younger child left the yard and went inside, police explained.

"The 4-year-old ... retrieved a rifle within the house, a .22-caliber rifle, came outside," Mastronardy told reporters earlier Tuesday. "... A shot went out and the 6-year-old was struck in the head."

In a gun-obsessed society anything is possible.


There is a Hungarian saying:
Amit főztél, edd is meg!
= What you have cooked, you should eat as well.
('You have to take the responsibility for your action.')
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Gadianton
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _Gadianton »

Wow, you are stupid as hell Gad....


Do you really think so?

1. First there is no "law" against children firing guns.


Sure. But is there a law against children firing fully automatic weapons?

Second, if some liberal did an "expose", I would say good.... Because guess what MORON, I and near any conservative gun handlers would NOT believe near ANY 9 year old is trained enough to handle a full auto UZI.


Why? Is an Uzi really that big of a deal? I've watched a skinny little nine-year-old girl fire a .50 caliber, and she did just fine. She had a couple of adults standing close to help her and while it knocked her flat on her little behind, an adult caught the gun on her way down, and nobody was hurt. I imagine she would have done just fine with an uzi. As you are likely aware, there are two components to the kick experienced when firing a gun. The largest component of the kick is muzzle blast; this is the "rocket" effect where hot gases thrust the gun backward. Vented barrels substantially diffuse this. Then, there is Isaac Newton's second law of motion. The gun thrusts backward in proportion to the mass and velocity of the load the gun fires. But the second law is minimal compared to muzzle blast. So a child has a better chance at firing a ultra-high powered combat weapon with a vented barrel than say, a .12 gauge, even with a shoulder pad. A perfectly legal 3-inch magnum in a .12 gauge will end a 9-year-old girl's interest in shooting for good.

So, so much for your ignorant lying..... showing just how ignorant liberals are of their hate group. Third, I believe in Freedom.... I believe a parent has the right to teach their child to use Construction Tools, which also kill and maim people, or climb trees, to fish, or use a gun, or to build bombs if that is their interest as protectors of society.


Er, there is fantastic sig-line material here, but which is it? You just finished expressing your outrage over a "gun handler" letting a nine-year-old fire an uzi. But parents have the right to teach their kids how to make bombs? And use guns, of course? So which is it?

Don't you know, that some of the very BEST people of this world, in whatever they do, are people who were doing those things when they were young?


You are right. The Earnhardt kids could likely have driven through town as safe as anyone at twelve or thirteen years old. But laws are targeted toward average people. It would be really stupid to allow any nine-year-old to get a drivers license just because the most gifted nine-year-old go-kart racers could handle the task.

Whether it's computers, guns, construction, piano, etc. You on the other hand would LIMIT freedom, creativity, and skill.


Wait -- wasn't it YOU who just said that a 9-year-old girl is not fit to fire an uzi? Who is limiting freedom here?

You are someone who's never studied history, to know the best of us all, many who have saved us in wars, men/women who have invented great things, etc., are men and women who gained their knowledge and skills while young.


So why do you have such a problem with a 9-year-old girl firing an uzi then? You really aren't making a lot of sense here, "ldsfaqs".

2. You conveniently forgot that I called the man a complete idiot, and it was NOT conducive of conservative values to have a inexperienced 9 year old handle a full auto UZI.


Wait: How on earth would you know in advance that she isn't one of these gifted children who will develop a great marksmanship skill early in life, and one day, therefore, save many people in combat? Who are you to limit a child's freedom?

AND, my mention of political, was because YOU liberals are the ones who made it political, in your liberal hate and fascism, using it as an example of why we should ban guns, and that conservatives are stupid, that this shows conservative values. So, stop being an idiot. YOU guys made this thread, not me.

Further, man you are an idiot.... as if the two incidents have anything in common. I judge based on actions and words, not on skin color or necessarily political affiliation idiot. The past event you mention was because of the things HE SAID, HIS ACTIONS, and what was happening in relation to guns in his area, that told me he was liberal. ZERO to do with his skin color MORON.


Let me refresh your memory, ldsfag. MeDotOrg's epic thread about a good guy with a gun walking up to a good guy with a gun elicited this response from you. And this, was the very first thing you had to say on the matter:

ldsfaqs wrote:Notice how the man doing the "demanding" and pulling out his gun was an old crazy black man....?[/


Now, ldsfaqs, why are you lying? Keep up your fibs and you might get called as a General Authority my friend. lol.

Further, I said liberals shouldn't be allowed to have guns, because THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT for the rest of us.


No, you said:

No, the point is that it was a crazy likely liberal person who did something crazy.


It's because you think liberals are "crazy".

So, if you don't want guns, don't have any interest or experience with them, then fine, BAN YOURSELVES! Leave the rest of us alone, the people who actually ARE experts in the tool.


I'm sorry, ldsfaqs, the laugh-attack is nearly killing me. You are dividing the world into people who a) don't have any interest and experience in guns and b) "the rust of us" -- the people who are experts with guns?

And as to your "conclusion".... Well, just more stupidity. Did you forget I called the man stupid? I didn't say anything about HIS political affliation moron. He would be stupid if he was conservative or liberal.


I just don't get this. Why was he stupid? This girl could have been a child-prodigy markswoman. You said yourself that the best of the best started at a young age. Why should her progress be stunted?

My POINT, was you all were parading this as an example of guns being bad, and conservatives (gun lovers, which are primarily conservative) as being bad, so hence was my point. Do you think I like Joe Biden cause he's "okay" with "some" kinds of guns? No, I think he's an IDIOT, he's white and apparently is okay with "some" guns.
[/quote]

Actually, this is an example not of guns being bad, but of a certain cross-section of conservative culture that lacks requisite self-reflection.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_ludwigm
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _ludwigm »

April 8, 2013
A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative
April 9, 2013
A 6-year-old New Jersey boy has died after being shot in the head by a 4-year-old playmate as their parents stood in the yard nearby
( viewtopic.php?p=841087#p841087 )
August 25, 2014
9-year-old girl accidentally killed an Arizona shooting instructor


You may have wondered what type of person gives an assault weapon to their child...

This type:
Meet John Correia and his gun-toting family.

Correia, 38, is a pastor at West Greenway Bible Church in Glendale, Arizona, and as a qualified NRA firearms instructor he also preaches the right to bear arms.
The former US Navy officer lives in Phoenix, Arizona, with trainee midwife wife Laura, 38, and their four children.

Their youngest daughter Abby was given a pink Crickett .22 rifle for her eighth birthday, while Sarah, 12, has her own shotgun.
Son James, 15, is a National Rifle Association apprentice instructor and owns a Browning BLR hunting rifle, a Remington 870 20 gauge shotgun, several .22LR rifles and a Kahr CW9 pistol.

John, an evangelical Christian, has his own arsenal of more than 20 weapons, including three break-action shotguns, a Glock 19 handgun and a AR-15 rifle – the type of weapon used in both the Sandy Hook and Colorado cinema massacres.
( http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life- ... ds-4129465 )

by the way
Their oldest daughter Phoenix, 17, is not a fan of firearms.
One of six is sane.

Is this the same rate for the whole?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_DarkHelmet
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Am I bad for laughing when I read this story? Another Darwin Award winner.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_honorentheos
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _honorentheos »

DarkHelmet wrote:Am I bad for laughing when I read this story? Another Darwin Award winner.

I don't know. I do know I feel terrible for the girl in the story and the man's family.

Setting politics aside, it's a sad story no matter how one looks at it.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_ludwigm
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _ludwigm »

1.
Charles Vacca, 39, a father and retired army general...
If anybody, a regular should know that the weapons are not toys for children - I had 39 years in the army to learn it...
A father? I have only a 6.35 Zbrojovka, a plaything for self-defence, the only one could be bought in the 60's Hungary - even by regulars.
Of our twenty grandchildren, I showed it only to the oldest one, when he was 20 or 21. Even they don't know I have a weapon at home.



2.
That shooting range seems to be unadapted for such users. Shooting over the bank may cause damage along the next 1-2 km.
Butts of the Hungarian Army (for the beginners!) have fences to inhibit any shooting outward from the area.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_honorentheos
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _honorentheos »

ludwigm wrote:That shooting range seems to be unadapted for such users. Shooting over the bank may cause damage along the next 1-2 km.
Butts of the Hungarian Army (for the beginners!) have fences to inhibit any shooting outward from the area.

In that part of Arizona, you could fire a .50 cal. straight off into the desert and not fear hitting anything but a rattlesnake or creosote bush when the slug finally comes to ground. On the opposite side of Vegas from the range, inside California, the US Army has the National Training Center at Fort Irwin which is miles x miles of God-awful. Firing ranges of all calibers and running mock tank battles are a constant there. It can be hard to fathom just how much uninhabitable land there is in the deserts of the southwestern United States.

Of the many things that surprised/bother me about this is that they would load a full clip during familiarization with the weapon. One might think that loading, say, three rounds or so to give someone the feel of the weapon would be a reasonable safety precaution no matter how old the user might be. I mean, half the reason people take newbies out to fire is to see the shock on their face when they get kicked and laugh at them. I can only imagine that a short submachine gun like an Uzi in the hands of anyone unfamiliar with the recoil could potentially have the weapon drift quickly and them not have the immediate sense to let go of the trigger.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_ludwigm
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _ludwigm »

OK... we don't have that uninhabited waste lands.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Bazooka
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Re: Arizona Gun Instructor Accidentally Shot

Post by _Bazooka »

ldsfaqs wrote:First there is no "law" against children firing guns.


Exactly.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
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