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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Bartburk is right.

No, certainly not in his assumption that the whole story is made up, but when he says 60s-era bullies didn't call their effeminate targets "gay" or "fag" as they do today.

It was more along the lines of "sissy," "girl" or "pantywaist." That doesn't mean they weren't tortured regularly, however. We all knew who these boys were -- the ones who would rather spend their time playing dolls and dress-up with the girls than playing baseball. We may not have made the connection that they had a hankerin' for boy flesh (at least I didn't), but we knew they were not like us. And they paid a price for it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Panopticon wrote:
I'm not suggesting that Romney should be jailed for attempted murder. I'm simply stating that Romney should not laughingly dismiss this incident from his past, particularly in light of the many recent reports of children killing themselves due to bullying.

I think this would do the trick, for at least some people:

Mitt Romney, taking a PR cue from the greatest man since Jesus, wrote:
I was left to all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God. In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. A disposition to commit such was never in my nature. But I was guilty of levity, and sometimes associated with jovial company, etc., not consistent with that character which ought to be maintained by one who was called of God as I had been. But this will not seem very strange to any one who recollects my youth, and is acquainted with my native cheery temperament.

-JV


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Blixa wrote:

I have a friend connection. Their verdict? "Cold, calculating, arrogant and self righteous."



I don't know. That description fits every single aggressive ladder climber I've ever known. I'm pretty sure it's more the rule than the exception. So while I don't find this all that implausible, it also seems too general - like a psychic cold reading. To wit, is there any major candidate in the primaries where this isn't probably true?


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:29 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Blixa wrote:

I have a friend connection. Their verdict? "Cold, calculating, arrogant and self righteous."



I don't know. That description fits every single aggressive ladder climber I've ever known. I'm pretty sure it's more the rule than the exception. So while I don't find this all that implausible, it also seems too general - like a psychic cold reading. To wit, is there any major candidate in the primaries where this isn't probably true?


eh, I could add some details, but I don't think they would say anything different than what is already known about him. So I kept it general.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:24 pm 
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just me wrote:

True. It sounds more like a case of effemiphobia.

BartBurk wrote:
Long hair was not considered feminine as much as a form of sloppiness. I can imagine this would have been a sign of low class behavior in a prep school in 1965.


And of course it's okay for prep school boys to bully the lower class boys, so in the proper light we can see that Mitt's behavior was perfectly acceptable. There we've taken care of that, it will look so much better for Mitt if everyone just understands he was addressing low class behavior.


Last edited by cafe crema on Thu May 10, 2012 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:27 pm 
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cafe crema wrote:
And of course it's okay for prep school boys to bully the lower class boys, so in the proper light we can see that Mitt's behavior was perfectly acceptable.


It's just like A Separate Peace. Except Phineas got a haircut instead of being pushed out a tree.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:25 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)

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Maybe this will make you feel better:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=51441


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:51 am 
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How come this one gets to go here instead of in the off-topic area?


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:53 am 
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BartBurk wrote:
He was a minor at the time --

It's being reported that Mitt was 18 years old at the time of the incident -- kids his age were fighting/dying in Vietnam at the same time Mitt was preying on this younger student.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:02 am 
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BartBurk wrote:
Which makes me question if we can believe the people (mostly Obama supporters) quoted in the article.

Most of those quoted were either eyewitnesses to or participants in the assault. What's not to believe? Even Mitt (who claimed not to remember the assault he led) seemed to admit he was guilty and was sorry.

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And I understand the person supposedly involved is dead.

Yes, he died of liver cancer in 2004.

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I never said Obama's behavior excused Mitt's, but if we're going to go back to what people did in high school we need to go back on Obama's too. Of course I never did anything in high school that I regret doing. Grade school, yes, high school, no.

We all did stupid things in high school, but what Mitt did seems WAY OVER the line. He organized and committed an assault on a younger, weaker, isolated, presumed-to-be-gay kid. Mitt should have been arrested for assault. This was not some "prank" or "hi-jinks" (words used by Mitt to describe his behavior in high school) -- this was a premeditated, cruel, vicious organized attack on a weak student. Mitt ought to be extremely ashamed and admit he did it. His "I don't remember" response cannot be believed (like much else he says).

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:31 am 
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Blixa wrote:
Really his treatment of his dog says it all.

Did Romney treat his dog badly? In the 08 primaries, Romney's sons said they put the dog in a pet carrier on top of the car when they drove to New Hampshire because the dog loved it. McCain's supporters said it was horribly cruel to put the dog up in the wind like that for hours and hours.

This line of criticism was going along nicely until an avid motorcyclist pointed out that humans and dogs ride motorcycles (dogs usually in side cars) all the time at highway speeds without any adverse effects and the dogs like it.

This squares with my experience too. I grew up on a farm and we had a lot of dogs over the years. They all loved riding in the open air in the back of a truck most of the time with their face sticking out the side in the full blast of the air.

There were many times when we loaded the bed of the truck with hay so that the only place for the dog to ride was up on top fully exposed to the wind. Judging from the way they readily jumped up on top of the load, I have to say that they loved it. Even when we stopped, they would often stay up there until called down.

What does this mean? Romney's sons probably told the truth that their dog loved riding in the pet carrier on top of the car so that's where they put him.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:48 am 
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Rollo Tomasi wrote:
BartBurk wrote:
Which makes me question if we can believe the people (mostly Obama supporters) quoted in the article.

Most of those quoted were either eyewitnesses to or participants in the assault. What's not to believe? Even Mitt (who claimed not to remember the assault he led) seemed to admit he was guilty and was sorry.

Quote:
And I understand the person supposedly involved is dead.

Yes, he died of liver cancer in 2004.

Quote:
I never said Obama's behavior excused Mitt's, but if we're going to go back to what people did in high school we need to go back on Obama's too. Of course I never did anything in high school that I regret doing. Grade school, yes, high school, no.

We all did stupid things in high school, but what Mitt did seems WAY OVER the line. He organized and committed an assault on a younger, weaker, isolated, presumed-to-be-gay kid. Mitt should have been arrested for assault. This was not some "prank" or "hi-jinks" (words used by Mitt to describe his behavior in high school) -- this was a premeditated, cruel, vicious organized attack on a weak student. Mitt ought to be extremely ashamed and admit he did it. His "I don't remember" response cannot be believed (like much else he says).


How credible are the witnesses when they are admitted left wingers and one was a volunteer for the Obama campaign? It is hard for me to believe that one person quoted in the article actually admitted he never even heard about this incident until Washington Post told him about it. Seems to me that such an incident would be common knowledge among most of his classmates.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:12 am 
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BartBurk wrote:
How credible are the witnesses when they are admitted left wingers and one was a volunteer for the Obama campaign? It is hard for me to believe that one person quoted in the article actually admitted he never even heard about this incident until Washington Post told him about it. Seems to me that such an incident would be common knowledge among most of his classmates.

But there are several persons giving separate and consistent stories, some of whom were directly involved in the assault (others received hearsay reports). Those who admitted to participating in the assault had no motive to lie about the assault occurring, thereby sullying their own reputations. And Mitt didn't deny it. He claimed not to remember, but then he seemed to admit it might have occurred and that he was now sorry. If this is something Mitt never would have done, then he certainly would have flatly denied it, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:16 am 
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BartBurk wrote:

How credible are the witnesses when they are admitted left wingers and one was a volunteer for the Obama campaign? It is hard for me to believe that one person quoted in the article actually admitted he never even heard about this incident until Washington Post told him about it. Seems to me that such an incident would be common knowledge among most of his classmates.


Do you work for FARMS?

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:13 am 
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This fails the "shoe on the other foot" test quite badly. What if the story were reversed, and it was Obama who played barber for a gay kid when he was 18?

As a supporter of Obama's re-election, I readily admit that I would be looking for a way to explain the behavior, while at the same time being disappointed and discouraged by the revelation.

But can you imagine what kinds of things Burk, Droop and BC would be posting if that were the case? How loudly would Fox News and right-wing radio be shouting from the rooftops about this being clear evidence of the president's poor character? The "scary black man" talking point would be everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:42 am 
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Rollo Tomasi wrote:
BartBurk wrote:
He was a minor at the time --

It's being reported that Mitt was 18 years old at the time of the incident -- kids his age were fighting/dying in Vietnam at the same time Mitt was preying on this younger student.

This kind of bullying is bad behavior at age 16. At age 18, given that the victim was homosexual, it rises to the level of a hate crime. Were this to take place today involving 18 years olds, it would not be treated as a mere "prank".

I agree that this incident reveals a disturbing facet of Romney's overall worldview and his perception of himself.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:23 pm 
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This doesn't look good any way you slice it. It would be better if Romney just stepped up and apologized without the weaselly equivocation. As others have said, most of us did stupid things in our youth that we're not proud of --- whether through malice, insensitivity or ignorance. The thing to do is to acknowledge it, sincerely apologize, resolve to do better and move on.

On the subject of reaching that far back for incidents and stories that bear on a candidate's fitness and character; In the bio section of Romney's website, the heart-warming narrative we get is this:

http://www.mittromney.com/learn/mitt
Quote:
Mitt married his wife, Ann, in 1969. They first met in elementary school when he was a Cub Scout; he remembers tossing pebbles at her when she rode by on a horse. When they met again years later at a friend’s house, he was smitten. Between them, they have five sons and sixteen grandchildren, who are the center of their lives.


All candidates do this, that's fine. Its just that if you're going to reach back and scoop out wonderful PR images with which to humanize your candidate, any concurrent snapshots that might not be so flattering become fair game.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Of course now we know that the Romney bully story is just bunk as the Washington Post now has corrected itself (without apology of course):

Quote:
The original copy:

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and has long been bothered by the Lauber incident. "But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks."

The changed copy, my emphasis:

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been "disturbed" by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by the Washington Post. "But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks."

http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/wapos-romney-bully-story-implodes/?cat_orig=politics


There's not even any anecdote to this case anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:28 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
There's not even any anecdote to this case anymore.

The article quotes a lot of other sources, including some who were there and even participated in the assault. The attack happened, and it's time for Mitt to own up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Mitt ran into the house, going from room to room (as much as possible) to be sure that all the occupants were either absent or had exited the house, then ran downstairs and saved a family heirloom before finally running out of the burning house himself.


As he left the house, he was heard to say, "Whew! I thought I would never find this valuable heirloom. Finders keepers!" He subsequently sold the heirloom on eBay for 100,000 dollars.

Just kidding.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:54 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
Of course now we know that the Romney bully story is just bunk...

It's impressive how they were able to orchestrate this fraud on poor Mitty. Those guys got together and made up a story, making sure to rehearse it well, so they would each get the details right for the reporters and their recording devices. A consistent story is crucial when being recorded.

Then they obviously got lucky when Romney chose to hem and haw a half-hearted apology about how he did a lot of "stupid things" in high school. Their evil lies must have sounded like something he would have done. Otherwise, he would have reacted like any other falsely accused person, with outrage.

Devious people, these guys. They even managed to cook up the story in a way that showed themselves as complicit in the deed.

Those are some really clever leftist anti-mormons.

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