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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:57 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
The wall is a symbol--as well as a reality--affirming segregation. :eek:

So, what was the 700 miles of fence that Obama built a symbol/reality of?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:14 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
The wall is a symbol--as well as a reality--affirming segregation. :eek:

So, what was the 700 miles of fence that Obama built a symbol/reality of?


Uh, a border?

Secure Fence Act of 2006 was Obama's doing?


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:

Uh, a border?

Secure Fence Act of 2006 was Obama's doing?

No not at all...but for him to allow such a blatant act of racism during is tenure is puzzling...its...its....its like its not a racist act at all.

but when you say "border"...what do you mean by that?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:28 am 
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From Drumpf's own website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160409010 ... r-the-wall

Quote:
COMPELLING MEXICO TO PAY FOR THE WALL

Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion


Not that the truth matters to any of his supporters....

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
From Drumpf's own website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160409010 ... r-the-wall

Quote:
COMPELLING MEXICO TO PAY FOR THE WALL

Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion


Not that the truth matters to any of his supporters....

- Doc


https://www.engineering.com/BIM/Article ... NF32z_ZqzQ


A recent report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office(GAO) documents how the Department of Homeland Security(DHS) tested its eight border barrier prototypes for the U.S.-Mexican border. The report found that many of the prototypes are “extensively” or “substantially” flawed, and that Customs and Border Protection(CBP) has likely underestimated the actual cost of the project.

Between October 2017 and June 2018, the GAO audited the DHS’s efforts, including how it evaluated the prototypes, how they determined location for new barriers, and how the department is managing acquisitions for the project. To do this, the GAO talked to officials and engineers, reviewed paperwork, and observed the DHS as it tested the prototypes.

For fans of the wall, the news is not good. The question now is: how did this happen?


.............


"Fire, ready, aim!" :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
From Drumpf's own website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160409010 ... r-the-wall

Quote:
COMPELLING MEXICO TO PAY FOR THE WALL

Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion


Not that the truth matters to any of his supporters....

- Doc

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Hey Doc!
I am sure you have already heard about Jim Acosta taking his degrees and credentials for journalism down to the border and reporting how things appear to be safe sound....at the wall.

Image
"No sign of the national emergency that the president has been talking about. As a matter of fact, it's pretty tranquil down here." - Acosta noticing conditions next to a big wall

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:04 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Hey Doc!
I am sure you have already heard about Jim Acosta taking his degrees and credentials for journalism down to the border and reporting how things appear to be safe sound....at the wall.

Image
"No sign of the national emergency that the president has been talking about. As a matter of fact, it's pretty tranquil down here." - Acosta noticing conditions next to a big wall


Those types of steel fences are even easier for groups of people to breach than a 50 ft concrete wall. They're both ineffective and a waste of money.

The only people a border wall may hinder are women and children trying to go it alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
The only people a border wall may hinder are women and children trying to go it alone.

True; very young children will first need to detach if breastfeeding, to allow mom to better scale the wall.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Border official shows Trump tunnels under border wall

:lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:29 pm 
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Anyway, now it looks as if Trump's lawyers have managed to explain to him that a state of emergency

(a) Won't solve his problem.
(b) Is really not a good thing in any case

Trump: 'Not looking to do' national emergency

Quote:
Donald Trump said on Friday that he does not plan to declare a national emergency – a day after suggesting he would “probably” do so.

Speaking at a cabinet meeting over the government shutdown and the border wall, Trump said: “What we’re not looking to do right now is national emergency.”

The president instead urged Democrats to “come back and vote” in Congress in a bid to end the government shutdown.

Trump insisted he had the right to declare an emergency, but said: “I’m not going to do it so fast”, according to a White House pool reporter.

That’s quite a turnaround from Trump.

On Thursday Trump was said to be consulting with lawyers over declaring a national emergency to appropriate money for the border wall – which would allow him to bypass Democrats in Congress.

He claimed his lawyers had told him such a declaration would hold up to legal scrutiny “100%”.

“I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency,” Trump said on Thursday.

“I haven’t done it yet, I may do it. If this doesn’t work out, probably I will do it. I would almost say definitely.”

Now Trump is urging Democrats to “come back and vote” – rather than attempting to go round them.

“We want Congress to do its job,” Trump said on Friday.

Despite Trump’s assertions that he would be able to declare an emergency, legal scholars have questioned the president’s right to take such action. That legal ambiguity could have contributed to this about turn from Trump.

More news is coming out re Trump’s national emergency reversal. According to numerous reporters Trump said this at his cabinet meeting today:

“This is where I ask the Democrats to come back to Washington and vote for money for the wall, the barrier. I don’t care what they name it. They can name it peaches.”

Trump will likely be embarrassed about ending his very public pursuit of a national emergency.

But spare a thought for Lindsey Graham, Trump foe-turned-Trump-sycophant, who was faithfully tagging along with the president’s national emergency line as recently as... two hours ago.


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@LindseyGrahamSC
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Mr. President,

Declare a national emergency NOW.

Build a wall NOW.


It’s extra embarrassing for Graham given he had been skeptical earlier this week about whether an emergency declaration would work, before shifting behind the idea. Oops


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Question: If this is such a state of emergency now, how come it wasn't when Trump was willing to sign a bill without a wall just a few weeks ago?

And if it is a national emergency, then if you truly believe that then you declare a national emergency instead of listening to lawyers and advisors.

How can you say you might declare something a national emergency? Either it is or it isn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Question: If this is such a state of emergency now, how come it wasn't when Trump was willing to sign a bill without a wall just a few weeks ago?

And if it is a national emergency, then if you truly believe that then you declare a national emergency instead of listening to lawyers and advisors.

How can you say you might declare something a national emergency? Either it is or it isn't.


The answer begins with an H, I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:20 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Hey Doc!


What's your point? <- It's the oddest thing to have someone imply you're against walls because you don't support this nonsense that Trump is pulling....

Anyway. You still haven't explained where you're going to put $5-10B worth of wall. It can't go on private land because it'll be tied up in litigation. It can't go on the Rio Grande because it'll go into litigation. Where are you going put it, you daft nutsack?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:27 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Question: If this is such a state of emergency now, how come it wasn't when Trump was willing to sign a bill without a wall just a few weeks ago?

And if it is a national emergency, then if you truly believe that then you declare a national emergency instead of listening to lawyers and advisors.

How can you say you might declare something a national emergency? Either it is or it isn't.

It’s only a national emergency now, with Democrats in control of the House. Apparently every Republican was OK to ignore this ‘emergency’ over the previous two years.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Trump announced yesterday that he never said Mexico would pay for the wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:12 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Hey Doc!


What's your point? <- It's the oddest thing to have someone imply you're against walls because you don't support this nonsense that Trump is pulling....

Anyway. You still haven't explained where you're going to put $5-10B worth of wall. It can't go on private land because it'll be tied up in litigation. It can't go on the Rio Grande because it'll go into litigation. Where are you going put it, you daft nutsack?

- Doc

1. My point was that Acosta, in spite of your endorsement, is a hack reporter.
2. A state of emergency or military eminent domain is hella different than your notion of traditional litigation on these matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:35 am 
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subgenius wrote:
A state of emergency or military eminent domain is hella different than your notion of traditional litigation on these matters.


"Traditional litigation" ? Does that mean you have to dress as Native Americans?? Oh, it's just a sneery kind of way of saying 'litigation. Right.

Let's think a bit about 'military eminent domain', shall we?

And when we do that, we find that yup, it's certainly different from the civil version, but it is unlikely to enable Trump to seize land quickly for a wall without hitting a big legal road-block.

Which may perhaps be why he isn't doing it?

Trump’s militarized land seizure for border wall is more complicated than ‘I can do it if I want’

Quote:
President Trump recently announced he could invoke national emergency powers to divert military funds to build his long-promised border wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, since Congress won’t give him $5 billion in funding. He said he would grab the land “under the military version” of eminent domain “fairly quickly” — the Fifth Amendment power to seize private property for a public use upon just compensation.

But Trump’s threat of using the military to acquire land for a massive federal project is nothing new or extraordinary. What is extraordinary, however, is Trump’s assertion that he can unilaterally order the military to build the wall, including seizing land, by declaring a national emergency without statutory authorization, let alone evidence of a legitimate emergency.

Let’s start with the basic question. Can the military use eminent domain to seize private land along the border for Trump’s wall? Yes, of course. The United States has a long tradition of authorizing the military to seize private land for a federal project.

In 1864, Republicans and Democrats had a heated debate over a bill to fund the construction of a military arsenal in Rock Island, Illinois. The bill, controversially, also proposed to authorize the first instance of the federal power of eminent domain. Finally, after months of floor debates, it was Vice President Andrew Johnson who went to Congress to broker a deal. He wanted Congress to authorize the secretary of war (today the secretary of defense) to seize private land to build the arsenal. It worked. The bill passed and was later signed by President Abraham Lincoln.

Today, Congress has delegated the power to seize private property to many military branches, including the Army Corps of Engineers to construct military bases and the Department of Navy to acquire land for airfields and gunnery ranges. For example, it took 15 years for the Army Corps of Engineers to seize the land for the famous Truman Dam. Likewise, the Department of Navy filed thousands of eminent domain cases to acquire land for the Chocolate Mountain Gunnery Range during World War II.

If Congress passes a budget that includes Trump’s $5 billion in border wall funding, then technically it is possible that the Army Corps of Engineers could begin seizing land and constructing the wall. The Corps regularly works alongside the Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Customs and Border Protection to acquire land along the border for security purposes, most notably the fencing installed during the Bush and Obama administrations.

One problem, though, is the volume of land that needs to be acquired to build Trump’s “Great Wall” is vast. One-third of the land is owned by the federal government, while the rest of the land is owned by states, private property owners or Native American tribes. That will be no easy task, especially in Texas, where the vast majority of the land is privately owned.

The bigger problem, however, with Trump’s “military version” of eminent domain is the implication that he can divert military funding to order the military, most likely the Army Corps of Engineers, to seize land and construct the wall without statutory authorization. This is where Trump finds himself at a roadblock.

As Bruce Ackerman, law professor at Yale Law, rightly notes in his recent op-ed in the N.Y. Times, the Supreme Court has invalidated variations of the emergency power in its 1953 Youngstown v. Sawyer ruling, striking down President Truman's seizure of the steel mills during the Korean War as lacking implicit or express constitutional and statutory authority. However, while the Youngstown ruling restricted the "presidential" power to take private property during a national emergency, without statutory authorization, the court’s majority opinion did not explicitly restrain the "government" power to seize private property during a national emergency. The ruling noted that the president does not have the power to order the military to seize private property and that the power is the "job for the Nation's lawmakers, not for its military authorities."

If Trump wants the military to seize land for the construction of his wall, he should follow President Lincoln’s lead from 1864 by signing onto an appropriate congressional authorization that direct funds to and expressly authorizes the secretary of defense to order the Army Corps of Engineers to act.

Otherwise, Trump may be abrogating his constitutional authority by ordering the troops to go it alone in seizing land along the border.

Gerald S. Dickinson is a constitutional law and property professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Law

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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:30 am 
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After reporting revealed that the wall gofundme runner is a known gofundme grifter (big surprise there), the gofundme page was shut down and all money was returned to donors. So, back down to a grand total of 0 dollars on that front.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:38 am 
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subgenius wrote:
1. My point was that Acosta, in spite of your endorsement, is a hack reporter.


And yet you demonstrated no such thing but only reinforced your already firmly established stupidity. All you did was regurgitate what has been spinning around in the Right Wing propaganda machine, as dozens of blogs posing as "News" are talking about the same dumb ____. Acosta shows up at a wall, no immigrants are coming through it, therefore "walls work." This just goes to show how petulant racist Right Wing minds truly are. We already demonstrated walls by themselves don't work, and never have.

I guess you choose to keep ignoring the clip I presented showing that immigrants just walk around them according to local Texas officials, and that they tunnel under existing barriers in other areas with ease. Acosta demonstrated that there is no "national emergency" the way Trump describes. Of course, had Acosta shown up at a border spot where there was no barrier you'd just accuse him of filming in the middle of Arizona someplace pretending to be near a border. You hate Acosta because he is a great journalist FOX News only wished it had.

Mexican politician climbs border wall to prove a point about Trump’s immigration policy


Last edited by Kevin Graham on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:39 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
After reporting revealed that the wall gofundme runner is a known gofundme grifter (big surprise there), the gofundme page was shut down and all money was returned to donors. So, back down to a grand total of 0 dollars on that front.


Wait, what? I thought he was a vet who lost three limbs. And America wants a wall so surely they'll all ante up.


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