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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:58 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
You said that Stormy was being slut-shamed. You imply she's a slut else how would she be shamed?

Look. If you're not going to answer the question we really can't move this dialogue forward. I don't want to play the "EAllusion Can Read Your Mind Better Than You Can Therefore He Creates an Argument Out of Thin Air" game.

- Doc


Your question is predicated on a misunderstanding apparently. By saying she is being slut shamed on FOX I'm not saying that I think she is a slut, but rather the person doing the shaming.

And the intention of this thread was to plausibly go in a number of different directions other than "Let's talk about what is Kevin's wife goes in to porn."


Last edited by Kevin Graham on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:59 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
So if you describe school dress codes that make girls not expose shoulders an attempt at slut shaming, you are calling 13 year old with exposed shoulders sluts? Rock solid logic there Doc. Also, you might want to look up what the phrase slut shaming refers to.

I apologize for interpretating your statements in the only plausible way that could form a coherent, relevant argument. In retrospect, this was presumptuous given the author.


I love this game EAllusion plays. He just ups and creates whatever runs through his r____ mind and voila. It's fact. I suppose if those 13-year-olds were ____ a bunch of their classmates your really, really, really bad analogy might stick, but since we're talking about A ____ PORN STAR can we just stay focused, please?

Jesus Christ you're insufferable most of the time.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:01 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
You said that Stormy was being slut-shamed. You imply she's a slut else how would she be shamed?

Look. If you're not going to answer the question we really can't move this dialogue forward. I don't want to play the "EAllusion Can Read Your Mind Better Than You Can Therefore He Creates an Argument Out of Thin Air" game.

- Doc


Your question is predicated on a misunderstanding apparently. By saying she is being slut shamed on FOX I'm not saying that I think she is a slut, but rather the person doing the shaming.


Did anyone on FOX use the term 'slut', or was that just you?

Anyway. I see you're not going to answer the question because this is the game you guys play. You never discuss anything in good faith. *shrugs* It is what it is.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:03 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

Did anyone on FOX use the term 'slut', or was that just you?

Anyway. I see you're not going to answer the question because this is the game you guys play. You never discuss anything in good faith. *shrugs* It is what it is.

- Doc


This is like saying no one can be fat-shaming someone unless they explicitly use the word "fat." But I wouldn't be surprised if the exact word was used on a number of FOX shows.

"Slut-shaming is the practice of criticizing people, especially women and girls, who are perceived to violate expectations of behavior and appearance regarding issues related to sexuality." - this is precisely what FOX does.

I'd answer the question if you can explain a point behind it. So far it just seems EAllusion was correct. How would I feel if my wife went into porn? At this point, after all that's been said, this is just a stupid question.


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:08 am 
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I literally told you why I asked the question. If you're not going to participate then we'll just chalk it up to your timidity.

Also, I probably wouldn't have used the term "slut" to describe Stormy Daniels, and I find it odd that you and EAllusion are so comfortable with the word that you'd use it so cavalierly. But whatever. You guys do you.

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:35 am 
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Saying something is an attempt at slut shaming is not calling the target of that slut shaming a slut. The term does not refer to shaming people who are sluts. It refers to condemning people for not behaving or dressing according to expected sexual norms (when doing so is victimless).

Your reasoning is based either on dishonesty or ignorance of what the phrase even means.


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38 am 
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Stormy Daniels, pornographic actress, stripper, prostitute, blackmailer, aka Stephanie Clifford IRL, was slut shamed?


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
It's a thought experiment designed to extract a value judgement out of you so I can undermine your point. Please indulge me.

- Doc

If she were my wife, I would banish her to the Sea of Red Herrings - at least till the Antarctic winter was over.

After this thought experiment on value judgments is over, would you share with us your conclusions?

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Stormy Daniels, pornographic actress, stripper, prostitute, blackmailer, aka Stephanie Clifford IRL, was slut shamed?


She was never a prostitute. She didn't even accept payment for her sexual affair with Trump.

Blackmailer? Please elaborate because Trump is the one who tried to keep her quiet with money.


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I literally told you why I asked the question. If you're not going to participate then we'll just chalk it up to your timidity.

Also, I probably wouldn't have used the term "slut" to describe Stormy Daniels, and I find it odd that you and EAllusion are so comfortable with the word that you'd use it so cavalierly. But whatever. You guys do you.

- Doc


I'm not going to participate in your attempt to make the thread about my wife getting into porn. There is no need for it so stop pretending this must be entertained first, otherwise I'm unwilling to discuss the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:

Blackmailer? Please elaborate because Trump is the one who tried to keep her quiet with money.

do you not understand how blackmail works?...keeping someone (eg a blackmailer) quiet with money is almost always the prime ingredient for a blackmailer to cook with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... edf94ae3c0
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/3/17314586/t ... mail-tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/stor ... 6?v=raila&

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:12 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Saying something is an attempt at slut shaming is not calling the target of that slut shaming a slut. The term does not refer to shaming people who are sluts. It refers to condemning people for not behaving or dressing according to expected sexual norms (when doing so is victimless).

Your reasoning is based either on dishonesty or ignorance of what the phrase even means.

The term 'slut' should never be used with a negative connotation because it discourages that sort of behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:14 pm 
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When you try to slutshame the girl your client was banging you reveal 2 things -
2: Gender bias around sexual behavior is still a very real thing.
2: You are a hypocritical asshat.

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:24 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:
And like constantly pointing out Trump screwed a porn star without a condom while his 4 months old son was nursing. Carslon didn't deny it and actually said he believed it to be true.

And while that may seem "newsworthy" to you...it does not exclude the notion that Avenatti is exploiting Stormy.

... claims the dim witted Fox show host that is using the subject of Stormy Daniels to entice viewers to tune in. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:37 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Saying something is an attempt at slut shaming is not calling the target of that slut shaming a slut. The term does not refer to shaming people who are sluts. It refers to condemning people for not behaving or dressing according to expected sexual norms (when doing so is victimless).

Your reasoning is based either on dishonesty or ignorance of what the phrase even means.


Aaaaand there it is again. I wonder why using a negative perjorative to describe someone is used as the device to shame them, and then THAT is somehow acceptable to use by anti-moralists (or nu-moralists)?

Next thing we know EAllusion is going to be slinging around terms like k***-shaming, f*****-shaming, n*****-shaming, because, you know, the word slut is such an acceptable insult to just be typing out over, and over, and over again.

____ Christ, this guy.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
I'm not going to participate in your attempt to make the thread about my wife getting into porn. There is no need for it so stop pretending this must be entertained first, otherwise I'm unwilling to discuss the issue.


I'm not asking if your wife is going to get into porn, ya goofball. I'm asking you how you'd feel if she decided to become a pornographic actress. That's all. It's a very simple question to answer, but you somehow can't wrap your mind around simply sharing how you, Kevin Graham, would feel if she were to choose to do that.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I'm not asking if your wife is going to get into porn, ya goofball. I'm asking you how you'd feel if she decided to become a pornographic actress. That's all. It's a very simple question to answer, but you somehow can't wrap your mind around simply sharing how you, Kevin Graham, would feel if she were to choose to do that.

- Doc


I'd feel sad doc. Really really sad.

Your point now?


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:21 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:

Blackmailer? Please elaborate because Trump is the one who tried to keep her quiet with money.

do you not understand how blackmail works?...keeping someone (eg a blackmailer) quiet with money is almost always the prime ingredient for a blackmailer to cook with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... edf94ae3c0
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/3/17314586/t ... mail-tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/stor ... 6?v=raila&


Yes, d__a__, I know how blackmail works. The definition is:

"the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person."

Stormy Daniels never demanded money. Money entered the equation when Trump tried to buy her silence and none of the links accuse her of blackmailing Trump, they're only saying this proves how easy it would be for someone to blackmail Trump because he gives in. You just googled "blackmail" and "Stormy" and figured the links must be connecting the two. What an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I'm not asking if your wife is going to get into porn, ya goofball. I'm asking you how you'd feel if she decided to become a pornographic actress. That's all. It's a very simple question to answer, but you somehow can't wrap your mind around simply sharing how you, Kevin Graham, would feel if she were to choose to do that.

- Doc


I'd feel sad doc. Really really sad.

Your point now?


THANK YOU.

I assume, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you'd feel sad because you view the work as dishonorable? Or immoral? Whatever word you want to use to describe your feelings on the work itself probably carries a negative connotation for you.

See. You're in a pickle here when making a value judgement against Tucker Carlson:

Quote:
Tucker truly is human garbage. Now he's pretending he cares about Stormy and wanted to protect her from Avenatti's exploitation.

...

And like constantly pointing out Trump screwed a porn star without a condom while his 4 months old son was nursing. Carslon didn't deny it and actually said he believed it to be true.

OK, so why the effing hell is he focused on attacking Avenatti for representing a Porn Star, and not interested in criticizing President whom he believes committed adultery with her? Which is the more newsworthy story? He kept going on and on with nervous laughter, saying Avenatti is wearing expensive clothes while Stormy Daniels is still stripping. WTF? That's what she WANTS to do. Good God.


You seem to want both to use Ms. Daniel's chosen profession as some sort example of a disgust (Trump had sex with her without a condom implies venereal disease, thus Ms. Daniels is a diseased woman, and she's diseased because she's a whore) and then in the same post you flip and imply that it's totally cool because that's what she wants to do.

So. Which is it? Is Ms. Daniels an untouchable or is she pursuing an honorable profession that she wants to pursue as a free woman?

You also impugn Mr. Carlson's reputation because he's expressing outrage, or whatever, that her attorney is using her to further his own agenda. The thing is you're doing the same thing, just on a smaller scale. You're using Ms. Daniels as a moral cudgel with which to batter Trump's reputation, but at the same time you're defending her immorality.

So. Here's the pickle.

You clearly view Ms. Daniels' profession as problematic, and perhaps disgusting. You wouldn't approve if a loved one chose the same career field. So. We have the following:

1) Carlson is a degenerate because he pretends to care about Ms. Daniels, but is presumably disgusted by her.

2) Trump is a degenerate because he had unprotected sex with Ms. Daniels, more so because she's a porn actress.

3) Avenatti, who is using Ms. Daniels to further his career merits no value judgement on your part.

4) You hold contradicting opinions about Ms. Daniels and her profession which undermine your moral value judgement against Trump, who is a known adulterer, but you seem fixated on the relationship he had with her.

In other words, your opening post doesn't make any sense regarding your value judgement that Mr. Carlson is human garbage because he takes the lawyer to task for using Ms. Daniels to further his own career because you and Mr. Carlson both share a disgust of Ms. Daniels and you both are using her to further your own political agenda.

-Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Or maybe he'd be sad because his wife was having sex with other people when he'd prefer her to be in a monogamous relationship like they agreed upon. But no, he must feel sad because he views porn as a dishonorable profession. Only possibility. Likewise, having unprotected sex with affair partners is generally even worse because it exposes people to the possibility of STD's or unwanted pregnancies outside the relationship regardless of what profession that person is in. You don't need that person to be in porn to reach that conclusion, though if you assume that porn makes it more likely, then yeah, it's even worse when doing that with a porn star.

That doesn't mean porn is inherently bad or disgusting. It just means that porn carries with it a particular kind of risk. I question whether there is that much of an elevated risk, but acknowledging it if there were doesn't mean is a morally wrong thing to do any more than saying coal miners are more likely to get lung disease is a moral condemnation of coal miners. Exposing your partners to increased STD risk without their consent; however, is morally wrong.

Hey Kevin - How would you feel if your wife was having sex with lots of other people, but wasn't doing it for money. Still sad? What if your wife was having unprotected sex with those people without your knowledge? Would that be fine? Yes or no?


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 Post subject: Re: Tucker Carlson and Avenatti go at it
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
Saying something is an attempt at slut shaming is not calling the target of that slut shaming a slut. The term does not refer to shaming people who are sluts. It refers to condemning people for not behaving or dressing according to expected sexual norms (when doing so is victimless).

Your reasoning is based either on dishonesty or ignorance of what the phrase even means.


Aaaaand there it is again. I wonder why using a negative perjorative to describe someone is used as the device to shame them, and then THAT is somehow acceptable to use by anti-moralists (or nu-moralists)?

Next thing we know EAllusion is going to be slinging around terms like k***-shaming, f*****-shaming, n*****-shaming, because, you know, the word slut is such an acceptable insult to just be typing out over, and over, and over again.

____ Christ, this guy.

- Doc


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

The pearl clutching over a common term that is used to condemn disparaging people, mostly women, as sluts, based on either a deliberate or stubborn ignorance of what the term means or why it exists, is not the expert argument or trolling you seem to view it as.


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