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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:02 pm 
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YOU SAID MY NAME!!! :mrgreen: :lol:

This one here....7th and waterman

I want to ask questions and will probably have questions about the other.

What's around that park?
Any neighborhoods?
Why are there no folks from the neighborhoods interested or able to reclaim the park and maintain a presence there?
Do the folks in the neighborhoods ever do park clean ups?

I guess I could apply those same questions to other videos as well.

Btw, your old Ward looked like a compound and the graffiti doesn't help. I'm sorry you have to see that.

:-(

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:11 pm 
Charlatan
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Jersey Girl wrote:
YOU SAID MY NAME!!! :mrgreen: :lol:

This one here....7th and waterman

I want to ask questions and will probably have questions about the other.

What's around that park?
Any neighborhoods?
Why are there no folks from the neighborhoods interested or able to reclaim the park and maintain a presence there?
Do the folks in the neighborhoods ever do park clean ups?

I guess I could apply those same questions to other videos as well.

Btw, your old Ward looked like a compound and the graffiti doesn't help. I'm sorry you have to see that.

:-(


It is easy to explain Jersey Girl, but I just don't think you can grasp the poverty level and the nature of the city. There is no such thing as neighbors coming together to save a park, especially in that area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QpQgXWKxsQ

here is the main part of the park...and aging my crappy camera does not give it justice...it is simply dead.

Towards the end I said that some people were enjoying the park, I was being facetious....it was a bunch of junkies most likely.

The city is more or less bankrupt. Crime is so far out of control it is not really enforced in a lower level, meaning cops only have time for serious crimes. Someone can look it up, but I read it is like 50% rental properties in a city of 250k, so no real pride of ownership. There are about 60k homes, and 30k are rentals.

Gangs are out of control, and english is New Testament the first language for many if not most who live in Southern Baptist
Quote:
Do the folks in the neighborhoods ever do park clean ups?


Jersey Girl...I know you live in a different world and you cannot fathom what is happening in So CA, in far too many communities here.

People do not pick up trash in their own yards and homes in many of these neighborhoods, they will not go to a park and pick up trash for the homeless and junkies to live in the park. plus, besides the needles and other such things one might find, their are hundreds of homeless that live in and around the park.

My wife and I had a ministry their for years, I had a trailer with three BBQs on it, and we could feed about 200 in a few hours...we did this once a month, but it go to the point that it was unsafe, especially in the summer with "hot drunks," and finally the City kicked us out by saying we were not licensed by the health department.

Check this video out...it use to be Military Housing...hundreds of small modest homes, well kept. They closed Norton Air Force base, and gave it to low income folks, or maybe they just took it over...I can't remember, but it turned it into a drug paradise, it got so bad they just tore it all down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kAk-KfBDRI

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Markk wrote:

Jersey Girl...I know you live in a different world and you cannot fathom what is happening in So CA, in far too many communities here.


Just to be clear, I do live in a different world now. I was raised in poverty and in a house that could have easily been condemned by the health department and almost was. I actually came face to face with a health department inspector, acting on a report by a neighbor, on account of the condition of the house and talked him out of pursuing anything.

If you think I have no reference for poverty, you're dead wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Markk wrote:

Jersey Girl...I know you live in a different world and you cannot fathom what is happening in So CA, in far too many communities here.


Just to be clear, I do live in a different world now. I was raised in poverty and in a house that could have easily been condemned by the health department and almost was. I actually came face to face with a health department inspector, acting on a report by a neighbor, on account of the condition of the house and talked him out of pursuing anything.

If you think I have no reference for poverty, you're dead wrong.


I wasn't trying to be divisive sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:24 pm 
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Markk wrote:
I wasn't trying to be divisive sorry.


No problem! :-) Remember I said this earlier in the thread?

Quote:
I started working when I lied about my age at 17 to get a job, so no, I don't understand.


Poverty is why I lied to get a job.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:32 am 
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I've first moved to San Bernardino in 1960. Norton AFB was a hub of government investment in Aerospace, and the largest employer in the area. It declined significantly after Norton closed down, and it's tax base evaporated.


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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:54 am 
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I didn't even know Norton was closed.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:06 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I didn't even know Norton was closed.


The flight line is still there, but the AFB is long gone. They tried to turn it into a major cargo plane destination, but with little success. Now it is mostly used by the US Forest Service to fill up planes with water/fire suppressant when we have fires close by.


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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:45 am 
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The CCC wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
I didn't even know Norton was closed.


The flight line is still there, but the AFB is long gone. They tried to turn it into a major cargo plane destination, but with little success. Now it is mostly used by the US Forest Service to fill up planes with water/fire suppressant when we have fires close by.


Wow, I looked it up and apparently the final closing was 1995.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:54 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
I've first moved to San Bernardino in 1960. Norton AFB was a hub of government investment in Aerospace, and the largest employer in the area. It declined significantly after Norton closed down, and it's tax base evaporated.


What ward did you belong to? Who gave you your PB?

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 am 
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I didn't join the Church until 1971. I went to the Ward on Pacific Ave.


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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:55 am 
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Hrm. I think what's being missed or not wanting to acknowledge is it takes an incredibly brainwashed person to believe that working hard leads to wealth. If that were the case, we would have a lot of millionaire construction workers and waitresses. The richest people on this Earth do not work hard. They earn money in their sleep through investments. The idea that working hard leads to wealth is the greatest propaganda the ruling class has ever pounded into the heads of the proletariat because now these people willingly work themselves to death just to make the resource owners richer.

If anything, hard work and wealth are negatively correlated.

I think people are opting out because there's little point to opting in. Half those people chilling out don't see the point of busting their asses so a proprietor can earn the fruits of the worker's labors. What does the worker get these days? $1200 rent for a one bed room? Rent and utilities can easily consume the average worker's salary, and then what? They're basically working for someone else just so they can go home and night to a place to sleep? Seriously, what's the motivation? What happens when they need dental care? Their teeth rot out. What happens if they need medical care? They die because preventative care is out of reach. BUT GODDAMN THEY SHOULD HAVE A GREAT ATTITUDE ABOUT WORKING TWO PART-TIME JOBS WITH NO BENEFITS AND NO SAFETY NET.

You couple that economic reality in which we're living AND, if you make a mistake here or there you're virtually condemned to a life of poverty, it's no wonder these people not don't see a way out, but the upside is such a small gradation better that working themselves to death just to get to that little step isn't worth it. And until people fundamentally shift their views on wealth and resource distribution we're going to see the problem continue to exasperate unless we take drastic action.

I guess I just have a hard time seeing how people who are the most oppressed supporting the people who have the most to gain keeping the population cycled in obvious self-defeating thinking and behavior. On a practical level if we want clean streets we need to hire more people to clean them. That costs money. If we want trashed picked up we need to hire more trash collectors. If we want to beautify our towns and cities we need to hire more landscapers and artists. We need massive infrastructure upgrades. Let's train and hire these people. Let's build massive high rise filled micro units so people have a place to go. We hire them to do the job. It takes money. We get the cities and lives we collectively deserve. We can live in a dystopian nightmare, which is what is literally unfolding before us right now, or we can build a society where workers have a reason to work and people who have resources still get to drive nice cars and live in beautiful houses, but they're not allowed to have ____ you money because we, for some odd reason, think that's just peachy.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:22 am 
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I think you are conflating "hard work" and "manual labor". No one gets rich working for someone else doing manual labor. You need to start your own business to have a shot at it.

And I can tell you very few people under 50 are making millions in their sleep while their investments compound. Most people with money today worked their asses (lots of time, lots of brain power, probably very little manual labor) while they were younger and after being successful in whatever field they chose, and now have money to invest.

But your comment "If anything, hard work and wealth are negatively correlated" only makes sense if you change it to manual labor. Go ask your liberal friend Warren Buffet if he ever "worked hard". Even that liberal would kick you in the teeth for even considering such a thing for a nano second. He would probably even declaim, "This mentality is what is wrong with America!"

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:28 am 
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Black Moclips wrote:
I think you are conflating "hard work" and "manual labor". No one gets rich working for someone else doing manual labor. You need to start your own business to have a shot at it.

And I can tell you very few people under 50 are making millions in their sleep while their investments compound. Most people with money today worked their asses (lots of time, lots of brain power, probably very little manual labor) while they were younger and after being successful in whatever field they chose, and now have money to invest.

But your comment "If anything, hard work and wealth are negatively correlated" only makes sense if you change it to manual labor. Go ask your liberal friend Warren Buffet if he ever "worked hard". Even that liberal would kick you in the teeth for even considering such a thing for a nano second. He would probably even declaim, "This mentality is what is wrong with America!"


Well, most of my observation just comes from anecdotal evidence. I grew up in a small business home. My parents easily put in 70+ hours a week just to eek (<- that's on purpose, btw) out a living. I was fortunate enough to have had exposure to that life and game planned my endgame a bit so I can do what I do now. While not wealthy, I was deliberate and figured out some things early on and I'm comfortable which suits my lifestyle. But that doesn't happen in a vacuum. My dad had a masters in Economics and was able to give some good advice while not living it. I took it and ran with it. I'm only Liberal-Socialist now because, pragmatically, it's the best way forward for everyone, even those with money.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:33 am 
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The best predictor of financial success is in having been born to rich parents.


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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
A high school graduate shoveling coal used to be able to buy a house; now, software engineers are sharing apartments.


That's an odd statement. I know many software engineers (programmers, network engineers, IT guys etc.), and they are all supporting their families quite well. Are you referring to the young software engineers in the Silicon Valley who have chosen to live in the most expensive housing markets in the country in order to try and gain access to certain opportunities? Because that's not the experience of the typical software engineer (and any of those apartment-sharers could no doubt move to any reasonably-priced city in the country and get a good job and buy a house but they choose not to).

I agree there is a massive housing shortage in some parts of the country and other problems with the real estate market that , but the idea that things were much better in "the good ol' days" leaves out many key factors. If we wanted to create the economic conditions that would allow someone "shoveling coal" to afford a house, it wouldn't work to the advantage of all "coal shovelers".

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:59 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
A high school graduate shoveling coal used to be able to buy a house; now, software engineers are sharing apartments.


That's an odd statement. I know many software engineers (programmers, network engineers, IT guys etc.), and they are all supporting their families quite well. Are you referring to the young software engineers in the Silicon Valley who have chosen to live in the most expensive housing markets in the country in order to try and gain access to certain opportunities? Because that's not the experience of the typical software engineer (and any of those apartment-sharers could no doubt move to any reasonably-priced city in the country and get a good job and buy a house but they choose not to).

I agree there is a massive housing shortage in some parts of the country and other problems with the real estate market that , but the idea that things were much better in "the good ol' days" leaves out many key factors. If we wanted to create the economic conditions that would allow someone "shoveling coal" to afford a house, it wouldn't work to the advantage of all "coal shovelers".


I mean, you can misconstrue an obvious rhetorical device if you like. I'm clearly talking about this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=san+fra ... eless+camp

And this:

https://venturebeat.com/2017/03/10/tech ... francisco/

Quote:
Zander Dejah, 25, pays $1,900 a month rent to live in a downtown San Francisco house with at least 40 other people, many of whom sleep in bunk beds.


Quote:
... [his real estate] company runs nine communal properties, three of which are in San Francisco. The others are in Austin, Texas, and Oakland, California.


- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Regarding the sharp increase in the numbers of homeless people...

What's behind the dramatic rise in L.A. County's homeless population

Quote:
There's no sugarcoating the bad news," Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said Wednesday in reaction to a new count that found Los Angeles County’s homeless population has soared 23% over last year.


I don't know if they have the data, but it would seem to be important to find out if the homeless increase was from people formerly living in housing in Los Angeles losing that housing and going to the streets, or homeless from other parts of the state and country migrating to Los Angeles? Because Los Angeles voters just approved $5 Billion in funding for homeless programs, so it's entirely possible that homeless from outside the area decided Los Angeles was a good place to be.

It's also a little disingenuous to blame homelessness on high housing costs, because even with the high costs, rental vacancies are extremely low:

http://www.nreionline.com/multifamily/a ... ay-markets

So people are living in the available housing (which is different than the stories of New York where there are tons of vacant buildings with thousands of empty units). The high prices are indicative of a housing shortage, so that's the problem that needs to be solved. Either more people need to move out of the city, or the city needs to build more units. There are simply too many people.

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

I mean, you can misconstrue an obvious rhetorical device if you like. I'm clearly talking about this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=san+fra ... eless+camp

And this:

https://venturebeat.com/2017/03/10/tech ... francisco/

Quote:
Zander Dejah, 25, pays $1,900 a month rent to live in a downtown San Francisco house with at least 40 other people, many of whom sleep in bunk beds.


Quote:
... [his real estate] company runs nine communal properties, three of which are in San Francisco. The others are in Austin, Texas, and Oakland, California.


- Doc


Yes. If someone chooses to live in a city with a massive housing shortage, then they will have to deal with sky-high prices and cramped living quarters. It's not rocket science.

They need to either reduce the number of people looking for housing, or increase the amount of available housing. It's a balanced equation with each side connected by "pricing."

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 pm 
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I mean. If it were me I'd just go somewhere I could make a living and put a roof over my head. Even if that meant bum ____ les West Virginia.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Downtown LA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:37 pm 
Charlatan
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The CCC wrote:
I didn't join the Church until 1971. I went to the Ward on Pacific Ave.


That is the the same ward I showed the video of which is now fenced in with graffiti on it. That is the chapel I grew up in...maybe I know you? We moved in I believe 72 if I remember correctly. Was Thomas Slade your bishop...if I remember correctly he was still bishop of the first ward in 71?

Did you go to PHS, SBHS, or maybe San G?

Who gave you your BP, it may have been my GF?

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