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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:27 pm 
Dragon
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"gfchase" I see that you do not read much better than your friend. It does not say that the Adam who resided on this earth will the one to provide tabernacles for his spirit children but rather AN Adam or in other words another first man and woman. Adam and Eve was used figuratively. However every man and woman who lives to be worthy to become Gods including Adam and Eve will eventually bear spirit children who will be sent to an earth to also gain bodies just as has been done here. There will be a first man and a first woman on each world who would be AN Adam and AN Eve.

Jerry


I read just fine. Thing is, I comprehend what I read. And it is you who cannot seem to grasp what Young obviously taught. All your "testimony" can't change the facts. Young taught that EVERY Adam would do the same, that includes the Adam for THIS EARTH, genius. Of course you believe this is all "figurative", because it doesn't fit into your little preconceived notions of what you want to believe that Young taught.

He DID teach there will be a first man and first woman on each world would would be AN Adam and AN Eve AND that they would be the parents of both the SPIRITUAL children they bore in their pre-existence, and the children they would bear when the fell again on the new world they created. This is what you refuse to acknowledge which is clear and plain as day.

This is all very simple, easy to comprehend doctrine to anyone who just reads it without trying to deny it to themselves, or lie about it, like Charles Penrose, Joseph F. Smith & others keep doing.

But that won't change the minds of people like you, who cannot conceive of anything that will shake your little worldview of modern Mormon fantasy.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:35 pm 
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The fact that you admit that you haven't read all of the posts above, shows that you don't want to know the truth, and just want to give your opinion and testimony, of which the former is uninformed and the latter is worthless to any discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:38 pm 
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If you really want to know about Adam-god, this is the best sermon that Young ever gave on it. I often see a paragraph or two quoted from it, but never the entire part of the sermon, (the 2nd half) that addresses Adam (the first part was on drunkenness). Here it is, the sermon published in the Deseret News June 18, 1873:

I wanted to make a few remarks upon the subject touched upon by my brother, [Joseph] but I shall not have the time. I frequently think, in my meditations, how glad we should be to instruct the world with regard to the things of God, if they would hear, and receive our teachings in good and honest hearts and profit by them. I have been found fault with a great many times for casting reflections upon men of science, and especially upon theologians, because of the little knowledge they possess about man being on the earth, about the earth itself, about our Father in heaven, his Son Jesus Christ, the order of heavenly things, the laws by which angels exist, by which the worlds were created and are held in existence, &c. How pleased we would be to place these things before the people if they would receive them! How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, AND WHICH GOD REVEALED TO ME–namely that ADAM IS OUR FATHER AND GOD–I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who could tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith.

Is it a great mystery that the earth exists? Is it a great mystery, that the world can not solve, that man is on the earth? Yes, it is; but to whom? To the ignorant—those who know nothing about it. It is no mystery to those who understand. Is it a mystery to the Christian world that Jesus is the Son of God, and still the son of man? Yes it is, it is hidden from them, and this fulfils the Scripture—“If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost,” who have no faith, and who pay no attention to the Spirit of God. These things are called mysteries by the people because they know nothing about them, just like laying hand on the sick. Is it a mystery that fever should be rebuked and the sick healed by the laying of the hands of a man who is endowed with authority from God and has been ordained to that gift? “Oh yes,” say the ignorant, “we know nothing about it,” That is true, but where is the mystery?

Will the ignorant receive the truth when they hear it? No, they will not, and this is their condemnation, that light has come into the world, and they choose darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. That is the fact in the case. What is the mystery about it? They do not understand invisible things. Ask the wicked, “Do you know anything about the laying on of hands?” “oh yes, such a man”—a man who is wicked in his whole life—“has the art of laying on hands for the curing the tooth—ache, fevers, wounds,” &c.; and now, in fulfillment of the words of the ancient prophet, thousands of people seek unto “wizards who peep and mutter,” &c., but they will not seek unto the living God. I can say to all the inhabitants of the earth that before what is called spiritualism was ever known in America I told the people that if they would not believe the revelations that God had given he would suffer the devil to give revelations that they—priests and people—would follow after. Where did I declare this? In the cities of New York, Albany, Boston, throughout the United States and in England. Have I told the people that as true as God lived, if they would not have the truth they would have error sent unto them, and they would believe it. What is the mystery of it?

The Christian world read of, and think much about, St. Paul, also St. Peter, the chief of the Apostles. These men were faithful to and magnified the priesthood while on the earth. Now, where will be the mystery, after they have passed through all the ordeals, and have been crowned and exalted, and received their inheritances in the eternal worlds of glory, for them to be sent forth, as the Gods have been for ever and ever, with the command–”Make yourselves an earth and people it with your own children?”

Do you think the starry heavens are going to fall? Do the Christian world or the heathen world think that all things are going to be wrapped up, consumed, and annihilated in eternal flames? Oh fools, and slow to heart to believe the great things that God has purposed in his own mind!

My brother said that God is as we are. He did not mean those words to be literally understood. He meant simply, that in our organization we have all the properties in embryo in our bodies that our Father has in his, and that literally, morally, socially, by the spirit and by the flesh we are his children. Do you think that God, who holds the eternities in his hands and can do all things at his pleasure, it not capable of sending forth his own children, and forming this flesh for his own offspring? Where is the mystery in this? We say that Father Adam came here and helped to make the earth. Who is he? He is Michael, a great prince, and it was said to him by Eloheim: Go ye and make an earth.” What is the great mystery about it? He came and formed the earth.

Geologists tell us that it was here millions of years ago. How do they know? Adam found it in a state of chaos, unorganized and incomplete. Philosophers, again, in talking of the development of the products of the earth, for instance, in the vegetable kingdom, say the little fibres grew first, then the larger vegetation. When this preparatory stage was completed then came the various orders of the animal creation; and finally man appeared. No matter whether these notions are true or not, they are more or less speculative.

Adam came here and got it up in a shape that would suit him to commence business. Father Adam came here, and then they brought his wife. “Well,” says one, “Why was Adam called Adam?” He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren, brought it into existence. Then he said, “I WANT MY CHILDREN WHO ARE IN THE SPIRIT WORLD TO COME AND LIVE HERE. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state, I was faithful, I RECEIVED MY CROWN AND EXALTATION. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children THAT WERE BORN TO ME IN THE SPIRIT WORLD to come here and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

Now for mother Eve. The evil principle always has and always will exist. Well, a certain character came along, and said to Mother Eve, “The Lord has told you that you must not do so and so, for if you do you shall surely die. But I tell you that if you do not do this you will never know good from evil, your eyes will never be opened, and you may live on the earth forever and ever, and you will never know what the Gods know.” The devil told the truth, what is the mystery about it? He is doing it today. He is telling one or two truths and mixing them with a thousand errors to get the people to swallow them. I do not blame Mother Eve, I would not have had her miss eating the forbidden fruit for anything in the world. I would not give a groat if I could not understand light from darkness. I can understand the bitter from the sweet, so can you. Here is intelligence, but bind it up and make machines of its possessors, and where is the glory or exaltation? There is none.

They must pass through the same ordeals as the Gods, that they may know good from evil, how to succor the tempted, tried and weak, and how to reach down the hand of mercy to save the falling sinner. The Lord has revealed his gospel and instituted its ordinances that the inhabitants of the earth may be put in possession of eternal life. But few of them, however, will accept it. I have preached it to many thousands of them who are naturally just as honest as I am, but through tradition there is an overwhelming prejudice in their minds which debars them of that liberty I have in my heart. They would be glad to know the ways of God, and to know how Jesus is, and to reap the reward of the faithful, if they had the stamina, I will call it, the independence of mind necessary to embrace the truth, to say, “I know this is true, and if there is no other person on the face of this earth who will defend it, I will to the last.” But this is not in their hearts, it is not in their organization, consequently they do not manifest it. What mystery is there about it?

None whatever. What is the mystery in Jesus being the Son of God and at the same time the son of the Virgin Mary? You know what the infidels say about this, but their words are no worse than the practice of many in the Christian world.

I do not want to be found fault with, but if I am it is all the same to me. There is no mystery to me in WHAT GOD HAS REVEALED TO ME, or in what I have learned, whether it has been through Joseph, an angel, the voice of the Spirit, the Holy Ghost or the Spirit of the Lord; no matter how I have learned a thing, if I understand it perfectly it is no mystery to me. It is like making one of these pulpits, or a house like this. This is no mystery to me, I dictated it, and a great many say it is a great piece of architecture to have a single span, so large as this roof and composed of wood that will sustain itself. But it is no mystery to me. I know the strength of the materials and how to place them together. It is no mystery to me to build a temple or a common house. But you take a gentleman or lady who was never beyond the confines of a densely populated city, who never saw wheat grow, and who never saw cattle in the fields, and it is a great mystery to them to see them. Why? Because they never saw such things before, and they know nothing about them; but it is no mystery to those who know all about such things.

Do you think it any mystery to angels to know how the various organizations are brought on earth? Not the least in the world. There is no mystery in all this to the Gods, no mystery in them to the prophets and apostles whom they send, and to whom they reveal them; it is all plain, everyday common sense, just as much so as with anything else in the world—we understand it.

Some may say to me, “Why, Brother Brigham, you seem to know it all.” I say, Oh no, I know but very little, but I have an eternity of knowledge before me, and I never expect to see the time when I shall cease to learn, never, no never, but I expect to keep on learning for ever and ever, going on from exaltation to exaltation, glory to glory, power to power, ever pressing forward to greater and higher attainments, as the Gods do. This is an idea that drowns the whole Christian world in a moment. Let them try to entertain it and they are out of sight of land without a ship, and if they had a ship it would have neither sail, rudder nor compass.

“What,” say they, “God progress?” Now, do not lariat the God that I serve and say that he can not learn any more; I do not believe in such a character. “Why,” say they, “does not the Lord know it all?” Well if he does, he must know an immense amount. No matter about that, the mind of man does not reach that any more than it comprehends the heaven beyond the bounds of time and space in which the Christians expect to sit and sing themselves away to everlasting bliss, and where they say they shall live for ever and for ever.

If we look forward we can actually comprehend a little of the idea that we shall live for ever and for ever; but you take a rear-sight, and try and contemplate and mediate upon the fact that there never was a beginning and you are lost at once. The present and the future we can comprehend some little about, but the past is all a blank, and it is right and reasonable that it should be so. But if we are faithful in the things of God whey will open up, open up, open up, our minds will expand, reach forth and receive more and more, and by and by we can begin to see that the Gods have been for ever and for ever.

Some philosophers have tried to reveal the first cause. I would change the position of the whole affair. I would plant my position in the ignorance of man that undertakes to prove or show the existence of a first cause. He had better go to work and prove himself a fool to begin with and then stop, for all his reasonings, arguments and researches with regard to the first cause only prove that he is a fool. Excuse me for this rough expression, perhaps it would be better to say that he comes far short of knowing or understanding himself in the least degree that he is lost in ignorance of himself. Is this the fact? It is. We can know nothing until we learn it, and when we come to a knowledge of facts they are no mystery to us.

Take one of these native Navajo women down south here into a factory and show her the machinery for weaving blankets, and if she has never seen anything of the kind she would laugh at such nonsense. Says she, “That is not the way to weave blankets, why do you not tie your web up to the limb of a tree, fasten the other end down, and then take a stick and do just so? That will never weave a blanket.” By and by she sees the blanket finished, but it is a mystery to her, and she can not understand anything about it, because she has not learned it. It is so with the whole human family.

You will excuse me for detaining you a little longer than usual. I wanted to ask the brethren and sisters if they did not think my brother, Joseph Young, pretty good. He is nearly seventy-seven years of age and had a severe sickness last winter. Do you not think he is pretty hale, and doing pretty well? I think he is. I like to see him here. I know that he has been trying to tell the people with regard to the things of God for fifty years past. If I were to live and learn as I have for forty years past—since I have been in this church—for a thousand years, I should only have just commenced to learn the great lesson of eternity.

I do hope and pray—and I want you to listen how I shape this prayer, instead of praying to my Father in heaven in the name of Jesus to make you and me faithful—I pray that we Latter-day Saints may be faithful to the covenants we have entered into with our Heavenly Father and with one another, and to live our holy religion., for we do know how. I need not ask the Father to make us faithful any more than I need ask him to come and sow our wheat for us, not a particle, for we know all about it. Be faithful, do right and live so as to be worthy of life everlasting. Amen. (Deseret News, Vol. 22, No. 308, June 18, 1873. Brigham Young; discourse delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; Sunday Afternoon, June 8th, 1873. Reported by David W. Evans).

Reposted in case you missed it which you obviously must have.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:51 pm 
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I know on what road I travel in spite of the rantings and ravings of gnashing of teeth of those who would assault the truth to assuage their guilt.


And you call Tobin angry? :redface:

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:02 pm 
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It has been one of the more lively thread "necromancy" moments in my experience.

BY taught "Adam-God" doctrine. He far more often taught the doctrine that the LDS faith follows today. As McConkie said, "What I am saying is, that Brigham Young, contradicted Brigham Young, and the issue becomes one of which Brigham Young we will believe. The answer is we will believe the expressions that accord with the teachings in the Standard Works." http://www.challengemin.org/adamgod.html

It isn't a problem to believe either way, because the doctrine now goes nowhere near "Adam-God" doctrine. BY had quite a few other odd things to "teach the Saints" during his long career....

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Uncle Ed wrote:
It has been one of the more lively thread "necromancy" moments in my experience.

BY taught "Adam-God" doctrine. He far more often taught the doctrine that the LDS faith follows today. As McConkie said, "What I am saying is, that Brigham Young, contradicted Brigham Young, and the issue becomes one of which Brigham Young we will believe. The answer is we will believe the expressions that accord with the teachings in the Standard Works." http://www.challengemin.org/adamgod.html

It isn't a problem to believe either way, because the doctrine now goes nowhere near "Adam-God" doctrine. BY had quite a few other odd things to "teach the Saints" during his long career....


I disagree that he "far more often taught" the doctrine that Mormons follow today. He just wasn't specific in who he called God. But then you have to understand Young, to know that it didn't matter to him, because he taught that it didn't matter at all which God he worshiped, because they were all "of the same species":

Quote:
Whether Adam is the personage that we should consider our heavenly Father, or not, is considerable of a mystery to a good many. I do not care for one moment how that is; it is no matter whether we are to consider Him our God, or whether His Father, or His Grandfather, for in either case we are of one species - of one family - and Jesus Christ is also of our species. (John Dehlin 4:217)


And,

Quote:
Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. (John Dehlin:5:331)


Many who know Brigham taught it, but refuse to accept it, same as in his day. Brigham Young did not contradict Brigham Young about Adam God. McConkie contradicted McConkie about Brigham Young, and lied to boot, same as every modern Mormon "authority" who has spoken or written on this subject. But that is Mormonism at its core. Contradiction and confusion. If you don't like one God, simply deny that a "prophet" taught it, and change the God, but don't besmirch the "prophet" that you are now claiming taught false doctrine. That's ol' Bruce for you. And why not interchange your gods? There are just so many to choose from.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:03 am 
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wow, an oldie but a goodie brought back to life!

With some incredible additions.

What a shame, that as usual, Tobin has to flood the last several pages with spam.


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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:30 am 
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RockSlider wrote:
wow, an oldie but a goodie brought back to life!

With some incredible additions.

What a shame, that as usual, Tobin has to flood the last several pages with spam.


Last I checked, I was responding to gfchase's post. But I'm sure you'll consider responding to you as spam too. One good thing is that at least you aren't a moderator any longer so you can't violate the forum rules by enforcing your clearly biased and unfair views.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Looks like this has been the bear the 'ol testimony and leave scenario after making embarrassingly inept statements that have no basis in reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:49 am 
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I've been following this thread since it started. It's still a lot of "Talkin' loud but sayin'' nuthin'" to quote JB.

All participants should pause and review what makes a "straw man" argument.

Adam didn't exist, therefore it's immaterial what BY said or anyone else says about whether Adam was God, or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Taken on that basis, all religion and much of mankind's teachings on practically everything "don't exist" either. So arguing any of it is like the metaphorical argument about how many (non existent) angels can fit on the head of a pin.

We really need to discard most of the knowledge of mankind as something that can be argued as true to the exclusion of anything else.

"All things are possible with God" is really the basis for beginning to be enlightened. But the sophistry of our species' most "wise" persons discards "God" along with any real discussion (not argumement) about "Existence". In other words, most of us argue about finite things that are transcended by Existence, as if those finite things constitute facts and everything else is mere imagination. The reality is that "facts" are always subject to change, so imagination is actually more directly accessible to understanding than a finite set of current "facts" which we say we have today, which will be seriously amended or even largely discarded tomorrow....

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:25 am 
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Tobin wrote:
Last I checked, I was responding to gfchase's post. But I'm sure you'll consider responding to you as spam too. One good thing is that at least you aren't a moderator any longer so you can't violate the forum rules by enforcing your clearly biased and unfair views.


In what ways is this post from you not spam?

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:51 am 
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Uncle Ed wrote:
Taken on that basis, all religion and much of mankind's teachings on practically everything "don't exist" either. So arguing any of it is like the metaphorical argument about how many (non existent) angels can fit on the head of a pin.

We really need to discard most of the knowledge of mankind as something that can be argued as true to the exclusion of anything else.

"All things are possible with God" is really the basis for beginning to be enlightened. But the sophistry of our species' most "wise" persons discards "God" along with any real discussion (not argumement) about "Existence". In other words, most of us argue about finite things that are transcended by Existence, as if those finite things constitute facts and everything else is mere imagination. The reality is that "facts" are always subject to change, so imagination is actually more directly accessible to understanding than a finite set of current "facts" which we say we have today, which will be seriously amended or even largely discarded tomorrow....

Well, you certainly got my head (pin-head?) spinning with that answer.

So, IYO, finite things are facts that can change, while imagination is more comprehensible...and therefore constant???

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:22 am 
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Uncle Ed wrote:
We really need to discard most of the knowledge of mankind as something that can be argued as true to the exclusion of anything else.

What other knowledge is there?
The knowledge plants have perhaps, if only we knew what the tree's were saying! :biggrin:

Quote:
"All things are possible with God" is really the basis for beginning to be enlightened.

But "All things are possible with God" is part of the knowledge of mankind, it's what portions of mankind "think" to be true.

Quote:
But the sophistry of our species' most "wise" persons discards "God" along with any real discussion (not argumement) about "Existence".

They don't discard God per se, they just acknowledge that there is zero tangible, reasonable evidence to support any existence of a sentient divine being. I would go as far as to say there is no reasonable evidence to support the existence of the supernatural.

Quote:
In other words, most of us argue about finite things that are transcended by Existence, as if those finite things constitute facts and everything else is mere imagination.

How can we argue about non finite things that are out-with knowledge of our existence?
What is there apart from facts, that isn't imagination or belief?

Quote:
The reality is that "facts" are always subject to change, so imagination is actually more directly accessible to understanding than a finite set of current "facts" which we say we have today, which will be seriously amended or even largely discarded tomorrow....

Everything is subject to change. Facts, beliefs, imaginations....in fact, the reality that facet are subject to change, is subject to change :wink:


Ed, you are using a lot of words to say nothing at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:11 pm 
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bcuzbcuz wrote:
Well, you certainly got my head (pin-head?) spinning with that answer.

So, IYO, finite things are facts that can change, while imagination is more comprehensible...and therefore constant???

No. Don't take what I said too far. Of course some facts will keep you alive, or, if violated in preference to your imaginative powers, will get you into trouble, and trouble can sometimes kill you.

What I am saying is that we ought to develop and maintain a hefty dose of skepticism when accepting other kinds of "facts": the kind that do change over time, or even disappear altogether - like the earlier notions about cosmology that modern science has not only overturned but eliminated entirely. Yet we are incapable of determining much more than we already "know" about the universe, and will remain incapable until we can actually get out there and scrounge up more information. All remains theoretical until then. Lots of competing ideas are being floated about how the universe could come to be, what could cause such a phenomenon to occur where there was apparently nothing before, etc. Earlier, religions had all the answers, too many of them in fact, for them to all be true. Now religion has NO answers, only assertions based on those earlier "answers" (dogma).

But the one thing that religion retains is pondering causes and forces behind existence of the perceived, empirical world. I say "religion" in the sense of the individual's decision to believe or entertain ideas that the empirical senses do not detect, i.e. science does not acknowledge and therefore cannot study, and furthermore has nothing to say on the matter.

We all exist in that realm that science does not touch. To assume it is merely imagination, chemicals swirling in feckless patterns of shifting thought, without any purpose or cause in the existence of such a phenomenal process of thought, is to assume a dumbing down of what makes our species unique.

When I dumped a dogmatic approach to my religion, and consciously chose to turn away from the religion of my upbringing (the religion I was raising my children in), I realized that I had an immediate second choice to make: do I continue to believe in "God", or do I discard all credence in a Necessary Cause of Existence. I knew that some people gravitate naturally to the one over the other. It seemed necessary to me that an explanation of existence in the first place was at the core of our empirical senses. So I retained "God" and began again to try and find out what that word means to me. I'm still going at it, with Joy everlasting (I expect this quest to never end), and my belief in "God" is greater than it ever was within Mormonism's theological parameters....

_________________
A man should never step a foot into the field,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need arms,
Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38

Man's joy is in Man. - Hávamál 47


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 Post subject: Re: Adam-God Theory
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:36 am 
Dragon
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Location: The Land of Lorn
Bumping....

For new evidence in the pretty recently released Council of 50 minutes, from the date of April 5, 1844 (starting pg. 83) and this taught by Joseph Smith the "Prophet" of the "Restoration":

Quote:
The chairman [Joseph Smith] explained the meaning of the word “Ahman” which signifies the first man or first God, and “Ahman Christ” signifies the first mans [p. [84]] son. He then referred to the labors of the committee and said that the council could not decide as to their labors untill they had completed their work. They could only sanction what been done and the committee must continue untill they had completed the document.


In 1832 Smith taught his followers some of the "pure Adamic language" and this is the definition of the word "Ahman" and some plays on it:

Image

In 1855 Pratt (who's notebook is above) explained the above "revelation":

Quote:
There is one revelation that this people are not generally acquainted with. I think it has never been published, but probably it will be in the Church History. It is given in questions and answers. The first question is, “What is the name of God in the pure language?” The answer says, “Ahman.” “What is the name of the Son of God?” Answer, “Son Ahman—the greatest of the parts of God excepting Ahman.” “What is the name of men?” “Sons Ahman,” is the answer. What is the name of angels in the pure language?” “Anglo-man.”

This revelation goes on to say that Sons Ahman are the greatest of all the parts of God excepting Son Ahman and Ahman, and that Anglo-man are the greatest of all the parts of God excepting Sons Ahman, Son Ahman, and Ahman, showing that the angels are a little lower than man. What is the conclusion to be drawn from this? It is, that these intelligent beings are all parts of God, and that those who have the most of the parts of God are the greatest, or next to God, and those who have the next greatest portions of the parts of God, are the next greatest, or nearest to the fulness of God; and so we might go on to trace the scale of intelligences from the highest to the lowest, tracing the parts and portions of God so far as we are made acquainted with them. Hence we see that wherever a great amount of this in(telligent Spirit exists, there is a great amount or proportion of God, which may grow and increase until there is a fulness of the Spirit, and then there is a fulness of God. Orson Pratt, who was there and made his own copy of the "revelation". (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 2:342-3).


So to recap, Joseph is teaching that the name of God is always "Ahman" or in other words, the FIRST GOD or FIRST MAN and "Ahman Christ" is always the first man's son. Notice that in 1832 it was "Son Ahman". Now it is "Ahman Christ". This is because of Joseph's new teaching that Adam was God and Jesus was his son. Brigham Young claimed over and over again that Joseph taught it, this is evidence that yes, he did.

_________________

Riding on a speeding train;
trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain;
Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world
can change your direction:
One step where events converge
may alter your perception.


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