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 Post subject: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:35 pm 
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E. Calvin Beisner
God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal
When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

Trinity
first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

Homoiousios = similar substance (Arius' position)

Homo = same
Homoi = similar
Ousios = substance

One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.

All the Persons of the Holy Trinity are IDENTICAL IN ESSENCE but DISTINCT IN PERSONS

John Ankerberg [Everything You Ever Wanted to know about Mormonism]

Page 104-105
1. There is Only One God
2. The Father is God;
3. Jesus Christ, the Son, is God
4. The Holy Spirit is a Person, is eternal and is therefore God
5. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The union of three persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three persons as to individuality.


Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and co-eternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
(White, James R. “The Forgotten Trinity” (p. 26). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition)

Tim tebow's father is a Christian Evangelist and here is his statement on the Trinity

We believe God is Trinity, which means that He is one God who has eternally existed in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each one is fully God. God is completely unified in His diversity. All persons of the Trinity are equal , nature, and substance, but they are different in persons. All things are from the Father, through the Son, and by the Holy Spirit. Each person of the Godhead shares all the attributes of God, including eternality, freedom, holiness, righteousness, immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, happiness, wisdom, sovereignty, perfection, goodness, and justice, grace, and mercy. God is holy, which means that he is transcendent over creation. He is the source of life. Nothing exists apart from His sustaining power. Matthew 28:18–19; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3–4; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Hebrews 1:1–3; Revelation 1:4–6.
http://www.btea.org/whatwebelieve.asp

Hank Hanegraaff, The Complete Bible Answer Book—Collector’s Edition (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2008)

While it has become increasingly popular to suggest that the doctrine of the Trinity is derived from pagan sources, in reality, this Christian essential is thoroughly biblical. The word “Trinity”—like “incarnation”— is not found in Scripture; however, it aptly codifies what God has condescended to reveal to us about his nature and being. In short, the Trinitarian platform contains three planks: (1) there is but one God; (2) the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; (3) Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct.

The first plank underscores that there is only one God. Christianity is not polytheistic but fiercely monotheistic. “You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me” (Isaiah 43:10, emphasis added).

The second plank emphasizes that in hundreds of Scripture passages the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are declared to be fully and completely God. As a case in point, the apostle Paul says that, “there is but one God the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6). The Father, speaking of the Son, says, “Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever” (Hebrews 1:8). And when Ananias “lied to the Holy Spirit,” Peter points out that he had “not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3–4).

The third plank of the Trinitarian platform asserts that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct. Scripture clearly portrays subject/object relationships between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example, the Father and Son love one another, speak to each other (John 17:1–26), and together send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). Additionally, Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges (John 8:14–18). If Jesus were himself the Father, his argument would have been not only irrelevant but also fatally flawed; and if such were the case, he could not have been fully God.

It is important to note that when Trinitarians speak of one God they are referring to the nature or essence of God. Moreover, when they speak of persons they are referring to personal self-distinctions within the Godhead. Put another way, we believe in one What and three Who’s.


For further study, see James R. White, The Forgotten Trinity (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 2001).


In Mormonism the hierarchy would like us believe Jesus and the Father are the same person :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/q9Ldxvj.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:40 am 
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I know of no indication that Mormon leadership teaches that the Father and Son are the same person. Thinking that they do is a very odd misperception.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Simple. The Bibble is incoherent because it was composed by many people. That anyone would expect a truly rational system to emerge from such a wild bundle of tales and traditions is as big a mystery as the Trinity. In fact, it's the same thing.

The Trinity was a cause to fight over, like what day you do your Sabbath on, or how you make the sign of the cross, what language your Bible is in, how many books are in it, whether your priest can do the horizontal lambada or not, you know, all the verities of the eternities. :lol: Just go with the holy spirit and murder who they tell ya. Religions don't run by theology. Ask Constantine.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Eternal Progression

https://i.imgur.com/TwNmRWN.png

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:07 pm 
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moksha wrote:


Image

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:14 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:
I know of no indication that Mormon leadership teaches that the Father and Son are the same person. Thinking that they do is a very odd misperception.


Here's a partial list of LDS leaders that teach Orthodox, Mainline Christians teach God the father and Jesus are the same persons :lol:


http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... teach.html

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:33 am 
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Mittens wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
I know of no indication that Mormon leadership teaches that the Father and Son are the same person. Thinking that they do is a very odd misperception.


Here's a partial list of LDS leaders that teach Orthodox, Mainline Christians teach God the father and Jesus are the same persons :lol:


http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... teach.html


Mittens, you have corrected your statement here. Yes Mormon leaders have garbled up what the traditional trinity view is to make their version sound preferable. But that goes with the alteration of basic ideas about god. In the Mormon view different person must mean different substance. There is a naturalness to that assumption that people can be swayed by. All the persons we meet each day are differentiated by having different substance. But none of these human or animal persons are infinite and all powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Simple. The Bibble is incoherent because it was composed by many people. That anyone would expect a truly rational system to emerge from such a wild bundle of tales and traditions is as big a mystery as the Trinity. In fact, it's the same thing.

The Trinity was a cause to fight over, like what day you do your Sabbath on, or how you make the sign of the cross, what language your Bible is in, how many books are in it, whether your priest can do the horizontal lambada or not, you know, all the verities of the eternities. :lol: Just go with the holy spirit and murder who they tell ya. Religions don't run by theology. Ask Constantine.

maksutov,
The dribble of cliches in this post impede finding a meaning for the last few sentences

Humans have always struggled with the role religion plays in contributing to political stability in a world trashed by powerful currents of political chaos.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:22 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
Simple. The Bibble is incoherent because it was composed by many people. That anyone would expect a truly rational system to emerge from such a wild bundle of tales and traditions is as big a mystery as the Trinity. In fact, it's the same thing.

The Trinity was a cause to fight over, like what day you do your Sabbath on, or how you make the sign of the cross, what language your Bible is in, how many books are in it, whether your priest can do the horizontal lambada or not, you know, all the verities of the eternities. :lol: Just go with the holy spirit and murder who they tell ya. Religions don't run by theology. Ask Constantine.

maksutov,
The dribble of cliches in this post impede finding a meaning for the last few sentences

Humans have always struggled with the role religion plays in contributing to political stability in a world trashed by powerful currents of political chaos.


You can't separate religion and power. You can't separate the spiritual and the worldly. I don't respect religion. I see no reason to. It's another cultural product that has been endlessly abused. Is that a cliché? Maybe. But nothing like the endless spiritual deepities that I see from those defending ridiculous notions like the Trinity. It is an absurd waste of time and energy without useful results. :razz: It has more to do with division than instability. Put down your own bundle of cliches and look at some objective history.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Muksutov. "dribble" was meant as light hearted response to"bibble" I was actually uncertain as to your line of thought about Constantine.Though you are able to make interesting and valuable observations, I was not interested in questioning your lack of respect for Christianity or religion

I am a little puzzled as to why you appear to think I am unaware or uninterested in history.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:35 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:
Muksutov. "dribble" was meant as light hearted response to"bibble" I was actually uncertain as to your line of thought about Constantine.Though you are able to make interesting and valuable observations, I was not interested in questioning your lack of respect for Christianity or religion

I am a little puzzled as to why you appear to think I am unaware or uninterested in history.


My apologies.

I think I tend to associate The Trinity unduly with the Trinity Broadcasting Company. :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:02 am 
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Hebrews 7
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Micah 5
2: But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 15
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:50 am 
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So where is the explanation? I see a lot of theobabble and Christians still all disagree about the Trinity. :lol: So whatever "explanation" is offered doesn't "explain" sufficiently to convince others. There is no consensus on the nature of the Christian God or that of Jesus Christ. It is explained just like any other religious difference of East or West, a product of cultural differences generated by squabbling ordinary humans.

A bouquet of deepities, a bundle of Biblicisms, a feast of metahooey. And so it remains a "mystery" needing explanation. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:19 am 
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Christians don't disagree with the Trinity, the meaning is "within The Nature of the ONE GOD are three separate and distinct persons" plain and simple

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:38 am 
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Mittens wrote:
Christians don't disagree with the Trinity, the meaning is "within The Nature of the ONE GOD are three separate and distinct persons" plain and simple


That isn't plain and simple, it's a contradiction. Quoting more gnomic statements won't help. And "Christians" don't all agree on ANYTHING, dude. They all believe differently, including on the Trinity/Godhead question.

Why not just say you don't understand it but you "believe" it anyway? You know, kind of like nuclear fission. Oh, except that there was an actual Trinity experiment and it worked. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:29 am 
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huckelberry wrote:
I know of no indication that Mormon leadership teaches that the Father and Son are the same person. Thinking that they do is a very odd misperception.


Apparently Mittens is unaware of Joseph's First Vision accounts. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Mittens wrote:
Christians don't disagree with the Trinity, the meaning is "within The Nature of the ONE GOD are three separate and distinct persons" plain and simple


That isn't plain and simple, it's a contradiction. Quoting more gnomic statements won't help. And "Christians" don't all agree on ANYTHING, dude. They all believe differently, including on the Trinity/Godhead question.

Why not just say you don't understand it but you "believe" it anyway? You know, kind of like nuclear fission. Oh, except that there was an actual Trinity experiment and it worked. :lol:


Maksutov, I suppose that even though the vast vast majority of Christians have agreed about the Trinity for over 1500 years now there are scattered dissenters. The group centered in Salt Lake is the largest. Jehovah Witnesses probably next largest.

"Just believe like nuclear fission", I have some understanding of fission so do not have to just believe. On the other hand I do not have the detailed understanding to make a working bomb. My relationship to the Trinity is similar. I find no contradiction nor do I find much that complicated there. But you have no real interest in discussing the Trinity.

I would bet if you have an interest here it is in the power and religion relationship. I think that is both an interesting and serous topic. We, all humans live with it. My previous tiny note meant to point to what I see is a serious complexity. It is easy to think the power relationship is only that of authority figure controlling the sheep. I think the power relation flows both ways. Religion has been a way in which the little people pool their power to influence , control, the leaders. I could suspect that Constantine hoped to bring the Christian group more into his orbit by offering tolerance. It could be remembered that Constantine tolerated both pagans and Christians. He hoped by so doing to increase stability in his favor. It should be remembered that the Roman empire had huge waves of chaotic forces tossing emperors in and out. Little of that had anything to do with religious difference of beliefs.

As the Roman Christian church consolidated political power people who wished to resist that power could choose to attach themselves to dissenting groups. North African resistance to Roman control could express itself in the puritan Donatist movement. Rome to keep political control decided to use force to suppress that Christian group.

I think it is clear that the increase in reliance upon political unifiers other than religion since the 17th century has been a serious benefit. Not always however.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:10 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
I know of no indication that Mormon leadership teaches that the Father and Son are the same person. Thinking that they do is a very odd misperception.


Apparently Mittens is unaware of Joseph's First Vision accounts. :lol:




Which one of 7 accounts are you referring too
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:57 am 
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Mittens wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

Apparently Mittens is unaware of Joseph's First Vision accounts. :lol:




Which one of 7 accounts are you referring too
:lol:


No argument there, dude. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:48 pm 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism


Nontrinitarianism is a form of Christianity that rejects the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity—the teaching that God is three distinct hypostases or persons who are coeternal, coequal, and indivisibly united in one being, or essence (from the Greek ousia). Certain religious groups that emerged during the Protestant Reformation have historically been known as antitrinitarian, but are not considered Protestant in popular discourse due to their nontrinitarian nature.

According to churches that consider the decisions of ecumenical councils final, Trinitarianism was definitively declared to be Christian doctrine at the 4th-century ecumenical councils,[1][2][3] that of the First Council of Nicaea (325), which declared the full divinity of the Son,[4] and the First Council of Constantinople (381), which declared the divinity of the Holy Spirit.[5]

In terms of number of adherents, nontrinitarian denominations comprise a minority of modern Christianity. The largest nontrinitarian Christian denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, La Luz del Mundo and the Iglesia ni Cristo, though there are a number of other smaller groups, including Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Assemblies of Yahweh, Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International, and the United Church of God.[6]

Nontrinitarian views differ widely on the nature of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Various nontrinitarian philosophies, such as adoptionism, monarchianism, and subordinationism existed prior to the establishment of the Trinity doctrine in AD 325, 381, and 431, at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus.[7] Nontrinitarianism was later renewed by Cathars in the 11th through 13th centuries, in the Unitarian movement during the Protestant Reformation, in the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, and in some groups arising during the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century.

The doctrine of the Trinity, as held in mainstream Christianity, is not present in the other major Abrahamic religions.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trinity Explained
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:02 pm 
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The Images below are accurate in explaining the Trinity, that is upheld by Trinitarians world wide :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/rt1vIXM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tJmtomW.jpg

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