Plates question for Dan Vogel

[_joel7]

Dan, I am reading your book "The Making of a Prophet." I see that Joseph returned to the wagon with Emma on the night he went to get the Gold Plates, but you say he was empty-handed...correct? Then at home he gives the spectacles (covered up) to Lucy, so where did they come from? Also, why didn't Emma get suspicious that he had no plates with him, but later came home with them? Maybe I need to read further.

[_moksha]

Then at home he gives the spectacles (covered up) to Lucy, so where did they come from?

That is a good question. When the story was in the embellishment phase, what made the helpful embellishers think that the Urim and Thummim breastplates were spectacles? Was it wishful thinking that created the desire to turn the seer stone into an object more closely resembling that which they thought could be a valid translational aid? Or was it simply to lend credence to the story via the biblical breastplates (while unfortunately mistaking them as being spectacles)?

It was probably wrong on their part to offer such a fib rather than crediting Joseph's use of his trusty seer stone. Offering such fibs ended up creating and perpetuating the use of apologetics by those formerly known as Mormons. Have pride in your stones.

[_Dr Exiled]

I think it was Samuel Lawrence who forced Joseph Smith to include spectacles in his plates story, according to Dan Vogel. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmX-H1GBivk where Dan talks about bringing the "plates" home on a video and I believe the book you are reading contains the same information.

[_LittleNipper]

Read the very first verse of the Book of Mormon and you will get the picture ---- I, Nephi, having been born to goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days: yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I made a record of my proceedings in my days.

Meaning: I had good parents and was taught by my dad everything he knew ---- having seen plenty of trouble in my life; however, I was respected by my Lord throughout my life understanding just how good God is and all His secrets; therefore, I kept a journal.

[_Dan Vogel]

Dan, I am reading your book "The Making of a Prophet." I see that Joseph returned to the wagon with Emma on the night he went to get the Gold Plates, but you say he was empty-handed...correct? Then at home he gives the spectacles (covered up) to Lucy, so where did they come from? Also, why didn't Emma get suspicious that he had no plates with him, but later came home with them? Maybe I need to read further.

I don’t see this as a problem at all. If Lucy’s account is accurate, Joseph Smith made the spectacles too from a rod bent into a figure 8 and two stones, as I explained. She was only allowed to feel them through the cloth, as the story is told.

Why would Emma get suspicious? How do you know she didn’t? Both believers and non-believers have to deal with Joseph Smith not bringing the plates home in the morning. Why didn’t they question the need to have the plates covered? People do not always act rational or skeptical when they need to be. They trusted whatever Joseph Smith told them.

[_LittleNipper]

Dan, I am reading your book "The Making of a Prophet." I see that Joseph returned to the wagon with Emma on the night he went to get the Gold Plates, but you say he was empty-handed...correct? Then at home he gives the spectacles (covered up) to Lucy, so where did they come from? Also, why didn't Emma get suspicious that he had no plates with him, but later came home with them? Maybe I need to read further.

I don’t see this as a problem at all. If Lucy’s account is accurate, Joseph Smith made the spectacles too from a rod bent into a figure 8 and two stones, as I explained. She was only allowed to feel them through the cloth, as the story is told.

Why would Emma get suspicious? How do you know she didn’t? Both believers and non-believers have to deal with Joseph Smith not bringing the plates home in the morning. Why didn’t they question the need to have the plates covered? People do not always act rational or skeptical when they need to be. They trusted whatever Joseph Smith told them.

I imagine that Joseph Smith's friends/relatives figured that they had everything to gain and nothing to lose.