It is currently Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:27 pm 
Charlatan
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 4231
William Clayton's journal reads,

Quote:
[August 23, 1843. Wednesday.] … President Joseph told me that he had difficulty with E[ mma] yesterday. She rode up to Woodworths with him and called while he came to the Temple. When he returned she was demanding the gold watch of F[ lora]. He reproved her for her evil treatment. On their return home she abused him much and also when he got home. He had to use harsh measures to put a stop to her abuse but finally succeeded …

George D. Smith. An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton (Kindle Locations 3928-3930). Signature Books. Kindle Edition.


While we will never know for sure, were the "harsh measures" physical abuse? We can say for certain he used mental abuse on some of these women...He threaten Emma mentally in section 132.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

Verse 63 speaks to virgins given to men like Smith, that if the "espoused" another man it was adultery, and would be destroyed

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

This is clearly a form of mental abuse, we know from testimony from a few of his wives, Joseph would explain the new law to his potential brides.

The more I read from those that knew Joseph first hand, and those that even married this man, the more apparent it is that he was a very abusive person, and I can't see any reason why he was not physically abusive.

FYI...
The gold watch in question was one that Joseph gave to a young wife, Flora Ann Woodworth. He had apparently married her earlier in the Spring, when she was just 16.

_________________
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days.
Ray Wylie Hubbard


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Multiverse
I don't know about that, but all of the cheating and lying I think amounted to emotional abuse.

_________________
When a master has a Negro and uses him well, he is much better off than if he was free.-Brigham Young


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:53 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:23 pm
Posts: 1288
Location: off the grid
Just from what you proffered here it sure sounds like it. Have to agree on the emotional abuse aspect of how he treated Emma too.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:26 pm 
Charlatan
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 4231
Maksutov wrote:
I don't know about that, but all of the cheating and lying I think amounted to emotional abuse.


Like I said we will never really know...but what else could "harsh measures" mean?

Would telling her to shut up be harsh? Given his temperament I doubt it.

I am reading through personal journals and they sure paint a different picture of his persona than what we were taught by the church.

_________________
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days.
Ray Wylie Hubbard


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:32 pm 
Nursery

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:24 pm
Posts: 36
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

_________________
Mike Griffith
LDS Information Web Page
http://ldsinfo.miketgriffith.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:07 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:43 pm
Posts: 13085
mikegriffith1 wrote:
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.


I doubt most people who knew Joseph ever commented historically on Joseph's generosity and kindness. Also can one make most people think they are kind, or actually be kind to most people, while still abusing their wife?

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:57 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 8588
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
mikegriffith1 wrote:
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.

_________________
What Joseph Smith should have said: "No man knows my hagiography."
What Jane Manning did say: "I am white except for the color of my skin."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:31 am 
Stake High Council
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Posts: 527
Fence Sitter wrote:
mikegriffith1 wrote:
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.

Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.

That was written in plain text, she abused him. But you are speculating if he abused her.

This is the blindness about all this justice people want to apply in retrospect.

She abused him, by the account, but you are wondering if he abused her. Women are strong and can be mean as hell.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:25 pm 
Stake High Council
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:47 pm
Posts: 527
Fence Sitter wrote:
mikegriffith1 wrote:
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.

Hubbard, was a misunderstood fellow as well. He was more used than a user. Check out some of the videos of his grandson, trying to clear his name.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... h%2Fx%2Fim


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:40 am 
Bishop
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:21 am
Posts: 491
SPG wrote:
Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.


How did she abuse him?

_________________
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
~~Walt Whitman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:59 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 20824
Location: Koloburbia
SPG wrote:
Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.

Was this abuse in the form of Emma getting angry about Joseph's extramarital dalliances or perhaps the abuse that occurred when she pleaded with him to be true to their marriage vows and choose to remain monogamous? Both of those items would be hard on someone who had been commanded by an angel with a drawn sword to "go forth and polygamate the earth".

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:17 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:53 pm
Posts: 1507
moksha wrote:
... "go forth and polygamate the earth".
Across the nation
Prophetic proclamation
Polygamation


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am 
God

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am
Posts: 8995
mikegriffith1 wrote:
Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

He was so kind and generous he gave his adopted daughters a husband.

_________________
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')


Last edited by I have a question on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:28 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 20824
Location: Koloburbia
Bret Ripley wrote:
Across the nation
Prophetic proclamation
Polygamation

There's an apologetic generation
With a new explanation
Prophet in motion
Prophet in motion

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:47 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:53 pm
Posts: 1507
moksha wrote:
There's an apologetic generation
With a new explanation
Prophet in motion
Prophet in motion

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:19 pm 
God

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 pm
Posts: 1349
Having suffered much emotional abuse (relationship after my husband died) I know that I would rather have been slapped around a bit. It is a horrible thing and hard to erase. Emotional abuse was rather Emma's middle name when it came to polygamy and the way it was done. . . I don't condone her anger nor do I blame her. She is a humane being. . . betrayed.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group