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 Post subject: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:20 am 
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The Book of Mormon agrees with The Tradition Christian view that it was Jesus who created everything both in heaven and earth



3 Nephi 9: 15 �Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.�

The Book of Helaman

Chapter 14:

12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.


Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Rev 3: 14 �To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write: �These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God�s creation:


Isa. 44:24

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Malachi 2
10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?

both these verses are referring to Jehovah


https://youtu.be/lFFkS0FhENQ

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Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
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Last edited by Mittens on Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:07 pm 
Valiant B
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I'm open explanations for how God did this.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 pm 
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SPG wrote:
I'm open explanations for how God did this.

Magic, of course.

Now please show some respect.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm 
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DrW wrote:
SPG wrote:
I'm open explanations for how God did this.
Magic, of course.

Now please show some respect.
everything have their boundaries
as respect has...

even soviet union had its boundaries borders how great soever it may be

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
The Book of Mormon agrees with The Tradition Christian view that it was Jesus who created everything both in heaven and earth



3 Nephi 9: 15 �Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.�

The Book of Helaman

Chapter 14:

12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.


Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Rev 3: 14 �To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write: �These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God�s creation:


Isa. 44:24

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Malachi 2
10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?


https://youtu.be/lFFkS0FhENQ


The Book of Mormon agrees with a lot of traditional Christian teachings. No wonder its the foundation, or the bedrock, or the archstone, or something, of the LDS religion. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:20 am 
God

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Location: Vancouver Washington
deacon blues wrote:
Mittens wrote:
The Book of Mormon agrees with The Tradition Christian view that it was Jesus who created everything both in heaven and earth



3 Nephi 9: 15 �Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.�

The Book of Helaman

Chapter 14:

12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.


Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Rev 3: 14 �To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write: �These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God�s creation:


Isa. 44:24

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Malachi 2
10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?


https://youtu.be/lFFkS0FhENQ


The Book of Mormon agrees with a lot of traditional Christian teachings. No wonder its the foundation, or the bedrock, or the archstone, or something, of the LDS religion. :wink:


The Book of Mormon is silent or contradicts almost 100% LDS teachings :lol:

Where are these exclusive LDS teachings found in the Book of Mormon ?

1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)
2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)
3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)
4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)
Jacob 1:15
And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
Jacob 2:24
Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Jacob 2:27
Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none.
Mosiah 11:2
For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but ... he had many wives and concubines.
Ether 10:5
Riplakish did not do that which was right in the sight of the Lord, for he did have many wives and concubines.

5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)
6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)
7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)
8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)
9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)
10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)
11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)
12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)
13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)
14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)
15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)
16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus' plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)
17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)
18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)
19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)
20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith's consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)
21. Not everything you'll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)"
22. Jesus was Married and Practiced polygamy (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210).
(Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82).
(Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259).
23. No eternal hell
LDS Apostle John Widtsoe declared, "In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is no hell. All will find a measure of salvation" (E. & R., p. 216). Yet, the B. of M. says, "The devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell and behold others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell" (II Nephi 28:21-22). Thus, the B. of M. explains where Mormonism got its doctrine of no hell!

The B. of M. also says, "If ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked" (Alma 34:35).

24. Animal sacrifice after Jesus' blood was shed

RESTORATION OF BLOOD SACRIFICES. We are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam's transgression. 44 Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored. 45

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.

3 Nephi 9:19 Jesus was supposed to have said: "And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings."

25. Atonement happened in Garden of Gethsemane

The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints does not view the atonement of Christ in the biblical and historical Christian manner. Instead of the atonement occurring on the cross, Mormonism teaches that the atonement occurred primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus shed His blood. Please consider the following quotes from a BYU professor and the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.
•BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross."
•Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, "Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane," (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 774,
1 Nephi 11:33
And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

26. Eternal Progression
27. Maintaining genealogical records
28. Mormons hold keys to the kingdom
29 . Eternal Families
30 . creation from matter and Ex Nihilo wrong
Jacob 4:9 For behold, by the power of his a word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the dearth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?
Psalm 33:9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

31. Exaltation
32. Everyone will be saved through Grace just not exalted
32. God is not omniscient
God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end." Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses Vol. 6:120
33. Garden of Eden in Missouri
34. Continuing Revelation
35. Mormon Plan of salvation
36. The ROCK is revelation rather than Jesus
Helaman 5:12
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.


37. God incomprehensible wrong

Mosiah 4:9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

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Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:10 am 
God

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DrW wrote:
SPG wrote:
I'm open explanations for how God did this.

Magic, of course.

Now please show some respect.
paranormal: weird occurrences that can't be explained.
supernatural: weird occurrences caused by forces beyond the "natural" realm.
magic: weird things caused on purpose by means of illusion (manmade).


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:36 am 
God
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SPG wrote:
I'm open explanations for how God did this.

DrW wrote:
Magic, of course.

Now please show some respect.


LittleNipper wrote:
paranormal: weird occurrences that can't be explained.
supernatural: weird occurrences caused by forces beyond the "natural" realm.
magic: weird things caused on purpose by means of illusion (manmade).


See definition 2:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/magic

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:09 pm 
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One has miracles and magic. Jesus never performed magic. Jesus performed miracles. Miracles usually uplift the one the miracle happens to. Magic generally puts the spotlight on the magician and not the one being cut in half and reassembled.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:51 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
One has miracles and magic. Jesus never performed magic. Jesus performed miracles. Miracles usually uplift the one the miracle happens to. Magic generally puts the spotlight on the magician and not the one being cut in half and reassembled.


So you know everything Jesus ever did? That must make you God. Or is it GOD? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:26 am 
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Mittens wrote:

Where are these exclusive LDS teachings found in the Book of Mormon ?

...(snip)...

to be accurate (I know, you have no interest in that) many of your listed points are not "exclusive"
for example
"We were all pre-existent spirits" could easily be interpreted from Jeremiah 1:5
or
"Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers" could easily be interpreted from Isaiah 14:12
or
"Blacks were cursed with a dark skin" could easily be interpreted from Genesis 4:15 (as did every American Protestant denomination up to the 20th century)

and so on

So, it may be useful for you to distinguish as such since the Book of Mormon blatantly promotes itself as "another" testimony, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:11 am 
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subgenius wrote:
"Blacks were cursed with a dark skin" could easily be interpreted from Genesis 4:15 (as did every American Protestant denomination up to the 20th century)


This is about as credible as your holocaust denial, Subby. :wink: I know you don't care about accuracy.

The Lectures on Faith were discarded because Smith couldn't get his godhead straight. Probably because he was too distracted by his own second head. :lol: So don't look for a coherent model of Jesus in Mormonism. It isn't there. Some Mormons are happy to live with huge lapses of logic and blinders on to avoid looking at the yawning gaps in their theology. Others not so much. :wink: And so the LDS are falling behind the SDAs, who are equally incoherent but less focused on trivialities and exclusion and less burdened by a parasitic elite of professional priesthood who hide their generous compensation with lies about being lay clergy. We cannot read the "sealed book" of church accounts, because there are things to hide.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
One has miracles and magic. Jesus never performed magic. Jesus performed miracles. Miracles usually uplift the one the miracle happens to. Magic generally puts the spotlight on the magician and not the one being cut in half and reassembled.


So you know everything Jesus ever did? That must make you God. Or is it GOD? :lol: :lol: :lol:
We don't know everything that Jesus did (how could we?), and frankly He calls himself God. He is the Great I AM. The Pharisees and Sadducees hated that Jesus used this terminology as it equated Him with God. Read the book of John that I just went through. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know everything GOD ever did, and anyone who thinks it's possible is foolish indeed! :ugeek:

What I say is that Jesus performed miracles and not magic. Jesus created nature --- so that would make Him supernatural. I really don't know why all this seem to go over your head, unless you are profoundly lost, or just trying to turn the crank. But I'm attempting to bring you knowledge of the Good News ! That is all I can do... Perhaps one day you will see the light (most obvious to a Christian)!


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:26 pm 
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I see the light.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:17 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
So you know everything Jesus ever did? That must make you God. Or is it GOD? :lol: :lol: :lol:
We don't know everything that Jesus did (how could we?), and frankly He calls himself God. He is the Great I AM. The Pharisees and Sadducees hated that Jesus used this terminology as it equated Him with God. Read the book of John that I just went through. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know everything GOD ever did, and anyone who thinks it's possible is foolish indeed! :ugeek:

What I say is that Jesus performed miracles and not magic. Jesus created nature --- so that would make Him supernatural. I really don't know why all this seem to go over your head, unless you are profoundly lost, or just trying to turn the crank. But I'm attempting to bring you knowledge of the Good News ! That is all I can do... Perhaps one day you will see the light (most obvious to a Christian)!


Too bad that so much of the "Good News" is "Fake News". You're still running from the fact that your scriptures are full of forgeries, so your theological parsing of events that never happened convinces no one but those who already believe.

Jesus was a cult leader who managed to have some of his followers invade and infiltrate one of the ancient world's military superpowers. But your days of conquest are over. Muslims are breeding faster than Christians. Time for the Christians to go polygamist! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Some Christians already have. Not too sure they have much of an impact on birth rates.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:00 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Mittens wrote:

Where are these exclusive LDS teachings found in the Book of Mormon ?

...(snip)...

to be accurate (I know, you have no interest in that) many of your listed points are not "exclusive"
for example
"We were all pre-existent spirits" could easily be interpreted from Jeremiah 1:5
or
"Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers" could easily be interpreted from Isaiah 14:12
or
"Blacks were cursed with a dark skin" could easily be interpreted from Genesis 4:15 (as did every American Protestant denomination up to the 20th century)

and so on

So, it may be useful for you to distinguish as such since the Book of Mormon blatantly promotes itself as "another" testimony, etc.


You prove my point not one of these are coming from The Book of Mormon :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:

Too bad that so much of the "Good News" is "Fake News". You're still running from the fact that your scriptures are full of forgeries, so your theological parsing of events that never happened convinces no one but those who already believe.

Jesus was a cult leader who managed to have some of his followers invade and infiltrate one of the ancient world's military superpowers. But your days of conquest are over. Muslims are breeding faster than Christians. Time for the Christians to go polygamist! :lol: :lol: :lol:


You want to believe that the Bible is a forgery because of the book of Mormon and because you don't want to accept that you are a sinful being needing salvation. You'd much rather believe that you are okay and there is nothing to fear if only God would go away and leave you alone... :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:22 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
...you don't want to accept that you are a sinful being needing salvation.

What are the implications of the Christian doctrine of original sin?

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:09 am 
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spotlight wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
...you don't want to accept that you are a sinful being needing salvation.

What are the implications of the Christian doctrine of original sin?

You have it wrong. God could save anyone He wished to. He save for example Enoch and Noah. Neither of these men were either Hebrew or Jewish. When did Jacob's son Joseph visit the temple? As for setting the captives free. Lazarus was saved and yet he had no money to pay for anything. The rich man didn't make it to heaven and yet one would suppose he had every means at his disposal to appease God and appears to have been fully a Jew...

When an individual died prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ and they were a "SAVED INDIVIDUAL," they would go to Jacob's bosom --- Paradise. The one man crucified with Jesus way promised he would go there. Paradise was not heaven, it was a waiting station. Heaven was no prepared to receive believers and Jesus needed to fulfill the requirements necessary for man to come into the presence of God the Father. When Jesus arose from the dead and ascended into heaven he freed all those waiting in PAradise and hell (the abode of those departed awaiting judgment) took over the portion that had been Paradise, as Paradise had been emptied.

So I am very aware that there are various thoughts on this; however, biblically speaking these are my thoughts. God saved whoever placed their trust in Him. The temple and the nation of Israel was to be an illustration to the world of GOD. The sacrifices were to illustrate what Christ would perfectly accomplish in his perfect timing. The Laws demonstrated to the people that it was impossible to please GOD by doing good because they were incapable of keeping the Law to perfection. The nation of Israel messed up over and over again.

I hope this points you in the correct direction... :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus the Creator of everything
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:04 am 
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LittleNipper wrote:
I hope this points you in the correct direction... :ugeek:

You didn't explain how someone who never heard of Jesus in this life gets saved by accepting a savior they haven't heard about.
I'll raise you :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: and call.

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Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee


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